2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt II

[QPR]

Nonsense.

This sounds like the argument being made for Kobe when he was winning titles and James was winning MVP's. Kobe was at the top of the mountain but James was the best player in the game.

That is officially the situation between Durant and James. James rests at the top of the mountain (until dethroned) but Durant is now the best player in the NBA.

He's playing the best ball right now, no arguments from me there.

If he's still playing the best ball in May then I will be happy to proclaim him the best player in the league. Something tells me LeBron will be well and truly awoken from his slumber by then though.

[cb4_89]

This! I have never seen LBJ playing so poorly like this year! sadly I think that we are in front of beginning of the decline for him!
It is hard to admitted it but Durant isn't only the MVP of the league but he is also the best player!

He's still shooting a ridiculous clip from the field.

I love KD but he's not going to be the best in the world until he beats LeBron to a ring. Right now you're seeing a guy that hasn't won anything versus a guy who has won four MVPs and two titles, and knows when he needs his energy the most.

The biggest compliment you can give KD is that the gap to the next best is bigger thaun the gap between he and LeBron.

Nonsense.

This sounds like the argument being made for Kobe when he was winning titles and James was winning MVP's. Kobe was at the top of the mountain but James was the best player in the game.

That is officially the situation between Durant and James. James rests at the top of the mountain (until dethroned) but Durant is now the best player in the NBA.

That is not the case at all. Two weeks ago everyone was saying it was Lebron and Durant was second in the MVP race. Durant didn't magically become better than Lebron in two weeks. Westbrook went down and he needs to score a lot of points for the thunder to win. Lebron's supporting case right now allows him to coast and still win games right now. It doesn't mean that he wouldn't be putting up better numbers than Durant if he had nobody on his team and had to go bonkers every night.

As of now Durant has the lead. As long as he goes crazy like this and keeps winning, he will win the MVP. But he is not the best player in the game.

[NaturalThunder]

That is not the case at all. Two weeks ago everyone was saying it was Lebron and Durant was second in the MVP race. Durant didn't magically become better than Lebron in two weeks. Westbrook went down and he needs to score a lot of points for the thunder to win. Lebron's supporting case right now allows him to coast and still win games right now. It doesn't mean that he wouldn't be putting up better numbers than Durant if he had nobody on his team and had to go bonkers every night.

As of now Durant has the lead. As long as he goes crazy like this and keeps winning, he will win the MVP. But he is not the best player in the game.

Uhh...not on here they weren't. Pretty sure the consensus on here since the first week of December has been Durant is leading the MVP race. It didn't just start when Westbrook went down and Durant started putting up monster numbers.

[cb4_89]

I was talking about the ESPN article that had everyone saying Lebron was easily number 1 and that Durant was just so unlucky to be playing in the same league as him. If voting was back then, Lebron likely would have won.

There is still a long ways to go however. Lebron could always go on a crazy tear like last year. The season isn't even half way through. They also have two games against each other. Those are always big swing games if records and numbers are close.

The big question mark for Durant is if he can handle this level of usage over 30 + games while still having a great record. So far he has shown he can.

[Styrian]

I think voter fatigue will prevent Durant to win MVP even if he had better statistical season and more team wins than Lebron.

If someone "new" was doing that right now, it wouldn't even be close.

[PaulieWal]

KD is still #1 in my MVP rankings followed by LeBron. It's sad that CP3 is out now but it becomes an official two man race though it has been in many ways already.

at people saying KD is the best in the game after he has a beast mode game and LeBron has an off night.

Just so people know KD is averaging about 1.5 minutes more than LeBron while also attempting 3.3 more shots per game. Meanwhile LeBron after averaging only about 5.5 rebounds to start the season is back to 6.9 rebounds per game along with 6.6 assists and will most likely finish the season with 25/7/7+ again.

People also conveniently ignore that LeBron has played 4 seasons in the last 3 years + the Olympics (someone can correct me but he has played the most basketball in the last 3 seasons. He just turned 29. He isn't going to come out gangbusters like KD anymore.

Anyway, the MVP race in a long time may probably come down to the wire.

[Antrim]

People also conveniently ignore that LeBron has played 4 seasons in the last 3 years + the Olympics (someone can correct me but he has played the most basketball in the last 3 seasons. He just turned 29. He isn't going to come out gangbusters like KD anymore.

They ignore it because it doesn't matter. This is a new season, with a new MVP and a new NBA champion.

That said, the MVP leader in this thread is going to change every night because fans love to overreact. Durant is not better than LeBron, he wasn't yesterday and he won't be tomorrow, but he did have a great game while LeBron had a terrible one, some more of these nights and he will stand a chance.

[PaulieWal]

They ignore it because it doesn't matter. This is a new season, with a new MVP and a new NBA champion.

That's not true. It does matter. It matters in the sense that LeBron isn't going to play pedal to the metal every night after being to the Finals 3 seasons in a row. Hence all the "he's coasting and he's declined" comments when in reality he is playing less minutes and looking to distribute the load more evenly within his team.

It is a new season but you don't play each season in a vacuum. The toll on your body from injuries and physical fatigue is cumulative. That matters even more when you have played 4 seasons in 3 years and carried the load that LeBron has had to carry in the postseason because of injuries to Wade and Bosh.

[Doctor MJ]

I think voter fatigue will prevent Durant to win MVP even if he had better statistical season and more team wins than Lebron.

If someone "new" was doing that right now, it wouldn't even be close.

You're very confused. Voters aren't tired of voting for Durant, they are tired of voting for him 2nd. If "voter fatigue" ends up swaying the voting, it will absolutely mean Durant wins MVP.

[Patterned919]

Durant is easily leading the race right now. Best stats, best record, and now he's carrying his team without Westbrook. It's not even that close right now in my opinion.

[Seralin]

Durant is easily leading the race right now. Best stats, best record, and now he's carrying his team without Westbrook. It's not even that close right now in my opinion.

Luckily, people don't vote based on early season results. Westbrook will return soon, and the Heat will soon have some more continuity and consistency in their lineup as Wade's healing process completes and playoffs come in sight. Though, I am sure James would exchange the 5th MVP trophy for another ring this year.

[Doctor MJ]

Luckily, people don't vote based on early season results. Westbrook will return soon, and the Heat will soon have some more continuity and consistency in their lineup as Wade's healing process completes and playoffs come in sight. Though, I am sure James would exchange the 5th MVP trophy for another ring this year.

Unless Miami ends up with a better record than OKC, people are going to be itching to give Durant the award.

Are the Heat capable of just going on a tear? Sure, they did it last year.

Is there any great need for such a tear? Nope. 2-time defending champs guaranteed of a Top 2 seed typically don't feel any great drive to make sure they get HCA.

Durant winning the MVP is a very likely scenario.

[Styrian]

I think voter fatigue will prevent Durant to win MVP even if he had better statistical season and more team wins than Lebron.

If someone "new" was doing that right now, it wouldn't even be close.

You're very confused. Voters aren't tired of voting for Durant, they are tired of voting for him 2nd. If "voter fatigue" ends up swaying the voting, it will absolutely mean Durant wins MVP.

2011-12 is probably the best example, Howard clearly deserved it over Rose, but Howard was top 5 in MVP voting since 2007-08 and Rose was new so he won it. I don't think voter fatigue only hurts MVP winner since MVP shares matter more than MVP's awards anyway. Right now would CP3 finished in top 3 if season ended today? Doubtful. And I don't think Durant would win MVP right now either.

ESPN poll from yesterday:
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/poll/co ... id/4131839
41% Lebron
25% Durant
22% George
12% someone else

ESPN 5-on-5 less than 10 days ago:
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-o ... ter-awards

[Doctor MJ]

I think voter fatigue will prevent Durant to win MVP even if he had better statistical season and more team wins than Lebron.

If someone "new" was doing that right now, it wouldn't even be close.

You're very confused. Voters aren't tired of voting for Durant, they are tired of voting for him 2nd. If "voter fatigue" ends up swaying the voting, it will absolutely mean Durant wins MVP.

2011-12 is probably the best example, Howard clearly deserved it over Rose, but Howard was top 5 in MVP voting since 2007-08 and Rose was new so he won it. I don't think voter fatigue only hurts MVP winner since MVP shares matter more than MVP's awards anyway. Right now would CP3 finished in top 3 if season ended today? Doubtful. And I don't think Durant would win MVP right now either.

ESPN poll from yesterday:
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/poll/co ... id/4131839
41% Lebron
25% Durant
22% George
12% someone else

ESPN 5-on-5 less than 10 days ago:
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-o ... ter-awards

If '10-11 is the best example you can come up with, then you've really got nothing.

Rose's team had the best record in the league, and Howard's team was significantly worse than in the previous year. If the two had similar records, Howard wins the MVP easily. Mind you Howard was my choice for MVP that year so I'm not saying he shouldn't have won it anyway, but it was really clear why he didn't win it.

Re: Would Paul finish Top 3 right now? Of course not. There are 3 guys who are clearly superior MVP candidates based on any traditional view of the MVP, and they are the 3 guys receiving the bulk of the votes on that poll you give. What's the key distinction between them and him? Team record once again.

[Styrian]

You're very confused. Voters aren't tired of voting for Durant, they are tired of voting for him 2nd. If "voter fatigue" ends up swaying the voting, it will absolutely mean Durant wins MVP.

2011-12 is probably the best example, Howard clearly deserved it over Rose, but Howard was top 5 in MVP voting since 2007-08 and Rose was new so he won it. I don't think voter fatigue only hurts MVP winner since MVP shares matter more than MVP's awards anyway. Right now would CP3 finished in top 3 if season ended today? Doubtful. And I don't think Durant would win MVP right now either.

ESPN poll from yesterday:
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/poll/co ... id/4131839
41% Lebron
25% Durant
22% George
12% someone else

ESPN 5-on-5 less than 10 days ago:
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-o ... ter-awards

If '10-11 is the best example you can come up with, then you've really got nothing.

Rose's team had the best record in the league, and Howard's team was significantly worse than in the previous year. If the two had similar records, Howard wins the MVP easily. Mind you Howard was my choice for MVP that year so I'm not saying he shouldn't have won it anyway, but it was really clear why he didn't win it.

Re: Would Paul finish Top 3 right now? Of course not. There are 3 guys who are clearly superior MVP candidates based on any traditional view of the MVP, and they are the 3 guys receiving the bulk of the votes on that poll you give. What's the key distinction between them and him? Team record once again.

San Antonio had just one less win than Bulls that year and Parker finished 12th. Behind Rondo who had significantly worse stats and just 56 wins compared to Parker's 61. But Parker got MVP votes in three different seasons before, first time for Rondo. I don't see any traditional view why Rondo had more MVP votes than Parker that same year.

[Doctor MJ]

2011-12 is probably the best example, Howard clearly deserved it over Rose, but Howard was top 5 in MVP voting since 2007-08 and Rose was new so he won it. I don't think voter fatigue only hurts MVP winner since MVP shares matter more than MVP's awards anyway. Right now would CP3 finished in top 3 if season ended today? Doubtful. And I don't think Durant would win MVP right now either.

ESPN poll from yesterday:
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/poll/co ... id/4131839
41% Lebron
25% Durant
22% George
12% someone else

ESPN 5-on-5 less than 10 days ago:
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-o ... ter-awards

If '10-11 is the best example you can come up with, then you've really got nothing.

Rose's team had the best record in the league, and Howard's team was significantly worse than in the previous year. If the two had similar records, Howard wins the MVP easily. Mind you Howard was my choice for MVP that year so I'm not saying he shouldn't have won it anyway, but it was really clear why he didn't win it.

Re: Would Paul finish Top 3 right now? Of course not. There are 3 guys who are clearly superior MVP candidates based on any traditional view of the MVP, and they are the 3 guys receiving the bulk of the votes on that poll you give. What's the key distinction between them and him? Team record once again.

San Antonio had just one less win than Bulls that year and Parker finished 12th. Behind Rondo who had significantly worse stats and just 56 wins compared to Parker's 61. But Parker got MVP votes in three different seasons before, first time for Rondo. I don't see any traditional view why Rondo had more MVP votes than Parker that same year.

Well of course they don't give the award strictly by wins and losses. That would be crazy. What they do is look at your basic superstar-ness (stats, etc) along with whether that's actually leading to team greatness.

This year there are 5 teams with records far better than the rest. 3 of them are being led by guys that can be taken seriously as superstars, and so those are the top 3 MVP candidates.

Re: Rondo vs Parker in '11. All you need to take out of that is that neither one of them were legit MVP candidates. MVP voters vote their top 5, and hence the voting does a great job of identifying the consensus Top 5. Get much beyond that and it's virtually meaningless.

Last year guys like Ty Lawson and David Lee got votes. That information should only be used to track down the voters and take their votes away from them.

[Dupas]

Lebron isnt even trying and still putting unreal numbers. Sad that the best player on league doesnt win the mvp award. Durant is also balling but he forces so much to win the mvp. Good for him

[Rasho_libre]

Lebron isnt even trying and still putting unreal numbers. Sad that the best player on league doesnt win the mvp award. Durant is also balling but he forces so much to win the mvp. Good for him

Does it matter? The MVP shouldn't be the best player in the league award. Then we should go back and give it to Michael every year. It's also not done yet, media actually has them pretty close.

[NaturalThunder]

Durant is also balling but he forces so much to win the mvp. Good for him

Now, just for fun, can you please prove this?

And heaven forbid Durant "try" too hard now that he doesn't have his running mate/top 10 player in the league teammate. He probably should take the LeBron route and coast a little more, I'm sure it won't cost OKC too many wins now that Russ is out injured.

[bondom34]

Durant is also balling but he forces so much to win the mvp. Good for him

Now, just for fun, can you please prove this?

And heaven forbid Durant "try" too hard now that he doesn't have his running mate/top 10 player in the league teammate. He probably should take the LeBron route and coast a little more, I'm sure it won't cost OKC too many wins now that Russ is out injured.

"Hey KD, I know Russ is out, but please, don't worry, no need for any extra effort, he's not very good and really doesn't affect how the team plays anyway. Just try to shoot less."