How good was prime Arvydas Sabonis?

Effercon · Post #101 » by **Effercon** » Sat Sep 5, 2015 8:05 am

I posted this on Reddit about an alternate NBA history if Sabonis came over when he was drafted.

I wrote:This goes through 96-97, because from 97-98 onwards, I think he would've panned out the same way as he did in real life.
(Real-life career stats, by way of comparison: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sabonar01.html)
(For those who don't know, his prime was approximately 1985-93.)
Now, here's how I think it would've gone down.
1986-87: Comes over injured. Misses the whole season.
1987-88: Now healthy, he takes the league by storm. Despite ending his season early through injury, playing just 65 games, he wins Rookie of the Year by a landslide. Makes his first All-Star Game, which he also will from 1990-97. Portland get the #2 seed, but get knocked out by the Lakers in the WCFs. (Season stats: 22.9/12.2/3.1)
1988 offseason: Re-injures his Achilles. Misses most of the 88-89 season. (This did happen in real life.)
1989-90: With Sabonis back again and healthy now, the true terror of prime Drexler/Sabonis is unleashed upon the rest of the league. Portland takes the #1 seed, winning 66 games. Sabonis wins MVP, then Finals MVP as Portland beat Detroit in the Finals. (Season stats: 25.4/13.3/3.4)
1990-91: Another great season, as they make it back to the Finals, but the rise of Michael Jordan is too much for Portland to overcome, and they fail to defend their title. Sabonis remains an MVP candidate, which he will until the 93-94 season, but doesn't, and will never win it, again. (Season stats: 24.7/12.9/2.9)
1991-92: Returning to the Finals, Portland withstand the barrage of threes by MJ to regain the title. Drexler beats Sabonis to Finals MVP, largely thanks to the narrative. (Season stats: 24.9/12.6/3.2)
1992-93: His last season as an MVP-caliber player, as the injuries he suffered in his youth start to catch up to him. Nevertheless, another outstanding regular season, but the Suns knock out the Blazers in the WCFs. With the rise of Hakeem and Robinson and the emergence of Shaq, Sabonis will never again be in the discussion for "best center in the league". (Season stats: 23.7/11.7/3.1)
1993-94: Now his decline begins. Portland only get to the WCSFs, where Hakeem's Rockets knock them out. For the first time since his rookie year, Sabonis will not start the ASG. He never will again. (Season stats: 21.8/10.5/2.6)
1994-95: The injuries start to catch up to him, but he is still productive, just scraping past the 20/10 mark. However, the Rockets knock out the Blazers in the WCSFs again, and with no Drexler now, it's getting very tough. This will be his last season as an elite player. (Season stats: 20.1/10.2/2.3)
1995-96: Sabonis now has his minutes lowered from 36-37 to 32 a game, due to the toll it's taken on his body. He still puts up good numbers, but he's now a shell of his former self. (Season stats: 18.6/9.8/2.4)
1996-97: For the last time, Sabonis makes it to the All-Star Game, but in the playoffs, the Blazers get knocked out by Kobe and Shaq's Lakers - something which would become familiar to him. (Season stats: 17.1/10.2/2.8)
1997-98 to end of career: Same as real life

JasonStern · Post #102 » by **JasonStern** » Sat Sep 5, 2015 5:11 pm

Sabonis would have been the difference between the 1990-1992 Blazers winning three championships and losing to the Pistons/Lakers/Bulls respectively.

The Laker Kid wrote:He was a lethargic Roy Hibbert. Shaq owned him everytime they met. I even remember a game where Sabonis got so pissed and cried on the bench.

yes. prime Shaq was a better player than injured, aged Sabonis, just like prime Dwight Howard humiliated a near retirement Shaq. that's how age works. :roll:

Zombiesonics · Post #103 » by **Zombiesonics** » Sat Sep 5, 2015 5:29 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:1. Russell
2. Chamberlain
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. Sabonis (tie)
5. Olajuwon (tie)

what a joke. Sabonis was great but even prime sabonis isn't sniffing prime olajuwon. Olajuwon is the greatest defensive center of all time, and he was no slouch on O either. an exceptional passer and rebounder. probably the best hands in nba history

EddieJonesFan · Post #104 » by **EddieJonesFan** » Sat Sep 5, 2015 6:44 pm

Has anyone broken him down in terms of his prime athletic ability? I know a lot about his skills, but not how he measured up athletically against the better centers of his era.

Miasma · Post #105 » by **Miasma** » Sat Sep 5, 2015 7:24 pm

He's the best of all time purely because of this

LuDux1 · Post #106 » by **LuDux1** » Sat Sep 5, 2015 9:23 pm

playaloc916 · Post #107 » by **playaloc916** » Sat Sep 5, 2015 9:58 pm

Lol, never knew Sabonis was a talented dancer too. Looks like he was pop-locking in that first gif above.

HotRocks34 · Post #108 » by **HotRocks34** » Sun Sep 6, 2015 5:32 am

Sabonis was considered by a lot of people to be the best center in the world when guys like David Robinson were around.

I don't think you can compare him to the Gasols or Yao. He was way too mobile for that. Think of him like a bulkier Porzingis with post moves and a tough-minded edge. Gritty on defense.

It's basically a crime against basketball humanity that the Soviets (think it was them) ruined Sabonis' Achilles tendon(s) and legs overall. He was like 2 generations ahead of his time. Athletic, active, run the floor, bulk to stand up to big centers in the paint, competitive, phenomenal passer, outstanding defender and could hit 3's.

Totally legit. If he's healthy and plays his entire career in the NBA, I'm going to say almost certainly a Top 25 player of all time. Probably higher than that, but I want to be more conservative in my estimation.

ceiling raiser · Post #109 » by **ceiling raiser** » Sun Sep 6, 2015 6:56 am

For those big on box score numbers, here are some (original site taken down, and can't find it on archive.org either):

http://archive.is/ZKQBt

Dawkins · Post #110 » by **Dawkins** » Sun Sep 6, 2015 8:27 am

Just watch this one to see a prime/ only a bit past-prime Sabonis: http://www.myvideo.de/watch/6663470/Sabonis

He's just pure fun to watch, so playful in his game, a beast in the paint.... A very unique, special basketball player.

Oh, and great shooter, that 7ft3 guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdlB8tX75Mc

RalphWiggum · Post #111 » by **RalphWiggum** » Wed Sep 9, 2015 6:43 am

EddieJonesFan wrote:Has anyone broken him down in terms of his prime athletic ability? I know a lot about his skills, but not how he measured up athletically against the better centers of his era.

He was dunking all over David Robinson and blocking his shots when he was already damaged goods. A year later David Robinson won NBA rookie of the year. We will obviously never know what he could have been because he was constantly injured by 21-22 because the soviets didn't care about health or developing his talents, they cared about "go out and show Russian superiority today" and your health and future be damned. He also looked that good playing for a country he hated. His motivation wearing a Lithuania jersey as opposed to playing for his step father that sexually abused him (analogy) could have made him even better.

If he had come over to the US as a 16 year old grew up in the NCAA system and wasn't pushed to play injured I truly believe we could be talking a top 10 all time player. Now his size may have caused him to break down regardless but he probably would have had a 4-5 year prime we'd all still be talking about.

There is no bigger what if in NBA history than a healthy Sabonis.

mitrandil20 · Post #112 » by **mitrandil20** » Wed Sep 9, 2015 11:10 am

His hands were the mattress of the angels.

Lexluthor · Post #113 » by **Lexluthor** » Wed Sep 9, 2015 1:29 pm

The most overrated center of all time on this board . So what he had one good game against David Robinson in the Olympics.David Robinson was the better player when he was with Portland. Shaq always dominated him in the playoffs. From what I saw he was a mediocre center nothing special.

Y

Prokorov · Post #114 » by **Prokorov** » Wed Sep 9, 2015 4:30 pm

EddieJonesFan wrote:Has anyone broken him down in terms of his prime athletic ability? I know a lot about his skills, but not how he measured up athletically against the better centers of his era.

not quite dwight, but a top athlete for sure. dunked from the foul line, putbacks and blocks all over. excellent in the open court.

UcanUwill · Post #115 » by **UcanUwill** » Wed Sep 9, 2015 4:38 pm

Dawkins wrote:Just watch this one to see a prime/ only a bit past-prime Sabonis: http://www.myvideo.de/watch/6663470/Sabonis

Beautiful stuff. Best hands in the history of the game?

Prokorov · Post #116 » by **Prokorov** » Wed Sep 9, 2015 4:43 pm

Lexluthor wrote:The most overrated center of all time on this board . So what he had one good game against David Robinson in the Olympics.David Robinson was the better player when he was with Portland. Shaq always dominated him in the playoffs. From what I saw he was a mediocre center nothing special.

Y

lol... of course a prime shaq/drob were better then an old broken down end of his career sabonis.

gavran · Post #117 » by **gavran** » Wed Sep 9, 2015 7:03 pm

Lexluthor wrote:The most overrated center of all time on this board . So what he had one good game against David Robinson in the Olympics.David Robinson was the better player when he was with Portland. Shaq always dominated him in the playoffs. From what I saw he was a mediocre center nothing special.

Y

A.k.a, you saw nothing

wallflower · Post #118 » by **wallflower** » Wed Sep 9, 2015 8:13 pm

People downplaying Sabonis' Olympic performance, you guys do know the Dream was assembled specifically to defeat Sabonis and Schmidt? His victory over Robinson was not a fluke, the United States was legit scared.

prophet_of_rage · Post #119 » by **prophet_of_rage** » Wed Sep 9, 2015 8:18 pm

Sabonis was for real. We'll never really know his place in history because he was too old by the time he played against NBA comp regularly but he was a beast in the 80s.

prophet_of_rage · Post #120 » by **prophet_of_rage** » Wed Sep 9, 2015 8:19 pm

EddieJonesFan wrote:Has anyone broken him down in terms of his prime athletic ability? I know a lot about his skills, but not how he measured up athletically against the better centers of his era.

He was a very fluid athlete. I don't think he was David Robinson level, but along the lines of Georgetown Ewing. Fluid gait, got up and down the floor, could elevate, had size, strength and a nice touch with the hook shot with either hand. He was special.