Better team this season= Utah Jazz or Sacramento Kings?

[Xsy]

I agree with what a lot of people here have said about the Kings having a higher ceiling, but the Jazz having a higher floor.

I'd also like to mention that the Jazz won "only" 9 more games despite having no major injuries last year (82 games from Gobert, 74 from Favors, 76 from Hayward, 82 from Exum). The Kings, on the other hand, had a ton of injuries (all of Cousins, Collison, and Gay played in fewer games than any of the aforementioned Jazz players) and had 3 coaches during the year.

How convenient that you didn't list any of the Jazz's SG's?

Alec Burks, our second best offensive player, missed 55 games. Our third best offensive player, Rodney Hood, missed 32 games.

The Jazz were starting Joe Ingles and Elijah Millsap, ffs.

[erudite23]

I'm more than a little surprised that so many people in this thread think that this is so close.

Last year the Jazz won 38 games, the Kings won 29. By SRS the Jazz (+0.71) were nearly 4 points better than the Kings (-3.07). By comparison (by this measure) the Jazz were about as much better than the Kings as the Hawks (+4.75) were better than the Jazz. If this thread were a Hawks vs Jazz thread, we all know how well that would go over.

In addition to this, the Jazz are a young team that is almost certain to take another jump up. They won 38 games after starting the year 6-25. They played over .500 ball for the last 2/3 of the season and ended the year playing the last 30 games like a 50 win team. It's reasonable to think that they could take another significant leap up into the high 40s or even low 50s based upon all the evidence in place.

The Kings, meanwhile, added Rondo and the rookie WCS as the only serious additions. The rest of their moves are simply rotation players. Rondo was a disaster last year and there is no discernible evidence of him having a positive impact on a team at any time in the last 3 years. He also is known for being a prima donna and being very difficult to manage in the way he interacts with the team and coaching staff. Cousins, who is the primary basis for any pro-Sacramento argument, is commonly known as the biggest knucklehead in the league despite his enormous physical talents.

So here is the question for those making the arguments for the Kings: where is the improvement coming from and how much of it will we see? Is this a team that you expect to win 40 games? 45? Or do you think its more like 35 games and that the Jazz will actually regress from their final record last season? If you think they will will more than 40, how can you have any confidence? They have not done so in the last decade and are mired as one of the most dysfunctional franchises in the league. The Jazz, meanwhile, are near the top in terms of stability and cohesion.

It wouldn't be the strangest thing in the world if Sacramento outperformed Utah this season, but if you are betting on it, I don't know how any reasonable person would consider taking Sacramento, all things considered. In fact, one wouldn't, since Vegas is predicting the Jazz to be 10 wins better.

[Concept Coop]

The Jazz played a solid stretch of winning basketball last year. Their post ASB record was top 5 in the league into mid-April.

I'm surprised this is a conversation, honestly. Losing Exum hurts, but getting Burks will likely offset that. Rondo is not a good basketball player anymore.

[Trader_Joe]

One thing to keep in mind.

Utah has trade assets (cap space, draft picks and prospects) while Sacramento is pretty much out of those.

Interesting to see what they could get for pieces like

Any of their future picks
GS #1
OKC #1
Exum
Burke
Burks
Hood
Lyles
Booker

As in they have the pieces to add more impact players to their big 3 of Hayward, Favors, Gobert

Overall...
I think Utah finishes a few games higher though I do like the Kings chances.

[Johnlac1]

the "personalities" on the kings will do them in.

Yes. Watching the Kings the other night, I once again was left with the conviction that the Kings should be allowed to play with five basketballs so they all could get their shots. Other than Rondo, it doesn't look like any of the starters are interested in passing the ball. I thought with Rondo at the point he could control the ball-hogging and gunning by the other starters. I don't see that happening.
The Jazz have less overall talent but are more into a team concept.

Am wondering offhand which one of Kosta Koufos, Willie Cauley Stein, Ben McLemore or James Anderson you are accusing of gunning?

I caught part of the Spurs game last night and the box says the Kings starters were:

Gay 13FGA
Cousins 11FGA
WCS 3FGA
Anderson 3FGA
Rondo 4FGA

truly you can see how all 5 guys were gunning at will and fighting over the ball.

Sorry...two huge gunners and some minor gunners who fight for the scraps. When the other players can wrestle the ball away from Cousins or Gay, then they can get off a shot. Kostas is a sub, and CS is there for his defense.
Other than Rondo (or Stockton who probably won't play much at all...if he makes the team that is), I don't see anybody on that team who understands team ball.

[rpa]

How convenient that you didn't list any of the Jazz's SG's?

Alec Burks, our second best offensive player, missed 55 games. Our third best offensive player, Rodney Hood, missed 32 games.

The Jazz were starting Joe Ingles and Elijah Millsap, ffs.

The fact that you had to go down to your 4th or 5th best player to find someone that missed significant time is pretty telling. The Kings top 3 missed nearly a season combined.

[sdballer]

Yes. Watching the Kings the other night, I once again was left with the conviction that the Kings should be allowed to play with five basketballs so they all could get their shots. Other than Rondo, it doesn't look like any of the starters are interested in passing the ball. I thought with Rondo at the point he could control the ball-hogging and gunning by the other starters. I don't see that happening.
The Jazz have less overall talent but are more into a team concept.

Am wondering offhand which one of Kosta Koufos, Willie Cauley Stein, Ben McLemore or James Anderson you are accusing of gunning?

I caught part of the Spurs game last night and the box says the Kings starters were:

Gay 13FGA
Cousins 11FGA
WCS 3FGA
Anderson 3FGA
Rondo 4FGA

truly you can see how all 5 guys were gunning at will and fighting over the ball.

Sorry...two huge gunners and some minor gunners who fight for the scraps. When the other players can wrestle the ball away from Cousins or Gay, then they can get off a shot. Kostas is a sub, and CS is there for his defense.
Other than Rondo (or Stockton who probably won't play much at all...if he makes the team that is), I don't see anybody on that team who understands team ball.

Who are the minor gunners you referenced?

Saying they have 2 major scorers and then role players basically describes almost every team in the nba.

[sdballer]

I agree with what a lot of people here have said about the Kings having a higher ceiling, but the Jazz having a higher floor.

I'd also like to mention that the Jazz won "only" 9 more games despite having no major injuries last year (82 games from Gobert, 74 from Favors, 76 from Hayward, 82 from Exum). The Kings, on the other hand, had a ton of injuries (all of Cousins, Collison, and Gay played in fewer games than any of the aforementioned Jazz players) and had 3 coaches during the year.

How convenient that you didn't list any of the Jazz's SG's?

Alec Burks, our second best offensive player, missed 55 games. Our third best offensive player, Rodney Hood, missed 32 games.

The Jazz were starting Joe Ingles and Elijah Millsap, ffs.

Rodney hood is your 3rd best offensive player? Not sure that's a good thing.

[KingFox]

I'm more than a little surprised that so many people in this thread think that this is so close.

Last year the Jazz won 38 games, the Kings won 29. r.

I'll stop you right there. Cousins missed a significant amount of time, as did Collison

[KingFox]

Rondo is not a good basketball player anymore.

Lol this just isn't true.

[erudite23]

Rondo is not a good basketball player anymore.

Lol this just isn't true.

Rondo had a PER of 13.5, TS% of 44% and WS/48 of .037 last year. He hasn't even played at the level of an average starter for the last 2 years.

[jpengland]

Jazz all say, every day and twice on Sundays.

Favorsvand Gobert are the best defensive frontcourt in the league by some distance.

Hayward is top drawer and Hood and Burks can fill it up.

Obviously PG is an issue but Burks and Hayward can be main distributers.

They are well xoached, play hard, immensely tough inside and have capable scorers. Fantastic team.

[Takingbaconback]

I think Gobert is a top tier defensive player already but the addition fo WCS by kings is huge imo. Kings will have a better record by a little bit is my best guess

IMO picking WCS was a big mistake. How they passed on Mudiay there is beyond me. What a gift to Denver. WCS doesn't fit well with Cousins.

I think it was an absolutely perfect pick. You allow Cousins to do whatever he wants on offense without having to defer and yet WCS can benefit from those occasional passes Cousins will throw at him with his huge radius of dunks and easy baskets. Cousins isn't an elite defender so WCS covers for him as well as many players on that team. Opposing team has to watch out for both DMC and WCS who can run the floor extremely well so they can't be putting out some slow plodding big men to go against them. He also greatly increases the pressure Kings will apply on the offensive boards as well as securing a higher percentage of defensive boards.

I believe WCS will be a Tyson Chandler 2.0 with the ability to legitimately guard SF and PFs in his league. WCS is one of the best overall athletes in the NBA already. Mudiay is a Tyreke Evans type of player to me. Not only do I think he is a bit lacking as a decision maker and shooter, he's not somebody that you can build a roster around easily. Mudiay's got "versatility" but I think again it's similar to how Tyreke Evans can play multiple positions... ineffectively.

[erudite23]

I'm more than a little surprised that so many people in this thread think that this is so close.

Last year the Jazz won 38 games, the Kings won 29. r.

I'll stop you right there. Cousins missed a significant amount of time, as did Collison

Ok, so injuries are to blame. Got you.

How many did he miss the year before when they won almost exactly the same number of games?

[jpengland]

People underrating Gobert. Seriously.

[sdballer]

I'm more than a little surprised that so many people in this thread think that this is so close.

Last year the Jazz won 38 games, the Kings won 29. r.

I'll stop you right there. Cousins missed a significant amount of time, as did Collison

Ok, so injuries are to blame. Got you.

How many did he miss the year before when they won almost exactly the same number of games?

Instead of giving you a history lesson on the kings, check out the coaches and teammates cuz has had the last 3-4 years. It's why kings fans are excited, we actually have experience, talent, good role players and a real coach this year. Trying to compare this roster with the results of the last few years is pointless

[sdballer]

People underrating Gobert. Seriously.

In what way? I don't see anyone under rating him here

[TacoBell]

I'm not gonna make any bold claims about the Jazz because I don't know enough about that team but I know enough about the Kings to know they have a really balanced squad right now. Past seasons there was always something missing like no 3 point shooters, no defensive specialists, no bench, too many similar players on the same team, no veterans. But this team right now is one of the most balanced squads the Kings have had for over half a decade and there's no overlapping players so I think this team is gonna surprise a lot of people in my honest opinion unless something goes horribly wrong which is always possible when you're the Kings.

[erudite23]

I'll stop you right there. Cousins missed a significant amount of time, as did Collison

Ok, so injuries are to blame. Got you.

How many did he miss the year before when they won almost exactly the same number of games?

Instead of giving you a history lesson on the kings, check out the coaches and teammates cuz has had the last 3-4 years. It's why kings fans are excited, we actually have experience, talent, good role players and a real coach this year. Trying to compare this roster with the results of the last few years is pointless

I don't need a history lesson, I'm quite familiar with their particular level of ineptitude. Typically teams that make a leap from one year to the next have a collection of young talent that is maturing and growing quickly or a franchising changing player who is new to the team. The Kings have neither of those things. The only other means of expected improvement would be the change at the HC position which might bode well if he hadn't already created a rift with the team's best player by trying to trade him and nearly gotten himself fired in the process.

Again, a big jump is possible here. But to actually expect it? It's not a good bet. Especially in contrast to the Jazz who have already shown the ability to win consistently at a high level for an extended period of time while simultaneously being the 2nd youngest team in the league. I don't see the comparison here.

[Frank Dux]

Jazz front court >>> The Kings front court

i'll give the Kings a slight edge of guard play, because Collison is a huge upgrade over Trey Brick. Rondo doesn't even deserve to be mentioned because of the obvious. His play is horrid now, and his character is even worse. Boston made a playoff run after he left, and the Mavs imploded after the trade. He's a cancer until he proves otherwise.