Spurs waive Jimmer Fredette

[UcanUwill]

Has he picked a new team yet? Probably going to D league, but I rather see him on a Euroleague team. Dominating D-League scrubs would do nothing for him.

[dznutzz]

why havn't the jazz picked him up?

[Johnlac1]

Did it really? Do you think all that he needed was to have a higher head?

I'd say being foul prone and bad defensively and then suffering injuries is what actually hurt him, and he still lasted 6 seasons. His per minute numbers as well as if you remember watching him play don't suggest him having any issues producing numbers in the NBA like he did in college, but being foul prone, a bit turnover prone, a weak passser and not much of a defender will limit how much you get on the court to produce those numbers, not to mention consistently getting injured.

Also from a previous post, I'd say that you're certainly overstating the difference height in small doses makes in terms of seeing over the defense and shooting over people. As a shooter you really only need a glimpse of the basket, but with the players that people would be comparing, it isn't a 6'0 guy vs a 6'8 guy, so the difference in head height isn't going to be that drastic.

A higher head would not have made Diogu a better defender, better passer or less foul, turnover or injury prone.


____

On the other side of the spectrum, we look at a guy like Blake who is 6'10 based on head height but is not much of a presence as a shot blocker and struggles contesting shots and defensive impact because of his length (or lack thereof) that is closer to that of a SF. Being 6'9 and having much longer arms but still being the same body wise would not make him "undersized" in comparison to the current Blake who can actually be considered undersized when it comes to length for his position.

Before his injury issues, Diogu was already being being swapped from team to team. He was the supposed jewel of the trade for the Pacers in the whole Murphyleavy for StackJack/Harrington deal, yet just over a year later Indy ended up trading him as a thrown in on draft day. His height did hurt him because he was almost exclusively an interior player with a back to the basket post game. If he were a face up guy like Milsap with the ability to play on the perimeter or an energy guy who runs the court like Faried, it wouldn't be as big a problem (though height still presents a problem for these 2 guys, just not to the same degree).

Blake measure out at 6'8.5". He's more/less an average sized PF (though in today's game you could argue that's slightly above the mean). His relatively short arms hurt him as a shotblocker, but overall he's hardly a liability on D and on offense he's physically too much for most opposing PFs to handle 1 on 1. Plus he's not limited to strictly being a back to the basket player.

Jimmer's game in college was just pulling up off the dribble and nailing bombs in people's grills. In the pros, he's obviously facing defenders who are just a lot bigger/quicker. At this level, reducing the amount of daylight a shooter has is going to affect his shot, especially because he doesn't have the quick release like most of the game's best shooters.

I never said that Jimmer flat out can't play in the NBA because of his height, because guys his size or smaller have obviously succeeded in the league. It just hurts him given his style of play, to go along his other athletic deficiencies.

Blake isn't a liability on defense because he's strong, athletic and can move well, not because his head is a couple inches taller, but his ability to be any sort of elite interior defender is capped by his lack of length. Diogu wasn't a liablity on defense because his head wasn't tall enough. He was a hack in summer league even, had like 10 fouls in a game.

I still don't grasp how you are allocating Diogu's struggles to height or even suggesting that his issue in the NBA was scoring. Isolating scoring alone, while he wasn't perfect of course, he was quite good enough.

Diogu also had an effective mid-range jumpshot, very effective actually even though he didn't take a lot. He was good at throwing his body around and drawing fouls, and didn't have issues moving players and scoring inside since he did most of his work from post-ups. Again, you keep talking about scoring and how his height hurt him, but the guys per minute offensive production in the NBA was good. He didn't bounce around early because teams were saying "oh he's too short to play his game on offense". Diogu had a career 17.4 pts/36 on .578 TS%. Whether he's playing backups or starters, that is excellent. His rebound rate of about 8.9 rebs/36 for his career was almost identical to what he was doing in college.

Now outside of scoring, similar to the defensive side, his issues on offense were bad passer and turnover prone.

Overall though, his main issue was defense. His defensive IQ was awful. He was extremely mistake prone on defense, he couldn't stay in front of guys, he couldn't stay on his feel, and overall he fouled way too much. There are guys who foul on defense, but are still good defenders. Diogu fouled way too much on defense (5.5 fouls/36 for his career), and was a bad defender. He averaged fouling out every 36 minutes, you're not going to get much playing time when you foul that much.

Diogu measured similarly to Elton Brand, but again, his issues were with skill related things, passing, turning the ball over, defense, and then injuries also added to it later on. The difference between Diogu and all those players you mentioned, Faried, Millsap, and the ones I mentioned, Blake and Brand is that Diogu while explosive vertically did not have very impressive foot speed and lataerl quickness.

While it was adequate, in combination with his poor defensive IQ and fundemantals, it caused him to be quite awful defensively as an NBA player and extremely foul prone. It wasn't Diogu's height that hurt him at all, he didn't struggle on defense because he was too short, he struggled because he made mistakes and was essentailly a hack on defense.

So before we even came to any effects of height, Diogu didn't last longer in the NBA because of poor passing and turnover issues offensively, and poor IQ and foul issues on defense, and even before height, we still have injuries that later derailed him as he could have still survived as a backup scoring option like a Carl Landry even with those issues.

The essential point is that being taller would not have alleviated any of those issues and made him stay in the league longer.

Height could help Jimmer, but what would help him more is if like Redick he decided to adjust his game to fit what teams would want. Even if he was let's say 6'4, if he still didn't have the ability to handle and create at a good enough level and was poor defensively, he would find a hard time sticking, especially if he's still trying to emulate some of the playing style he had in college.

Fredette is a better one one one player than Redick, and could be decent combo guard off the bench. But he never improved his ballhandling (or not enough) and still looked less than adequate on defense the last time I saw him.
He can still be a valuable player, but not as a star.

[og15]

Yea, he definitely is, but he might have to focus on being more useful as a defender and playing off other guys as opposed to being a scorer on the ball.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Always happy when I learn something new.

Today I learned that Ike Diogu had a middling NBA career only because of his height. Here, I thought his lack of foot speed, range, propensity to foul and all-around lousy defense had something to do with it.

Nope. He was just too short, with or without abnormally long arms.

[oaktownwarriors87]

First time I watched him was against San Diego State. He was taking long, athletic players off the dribble and finishing with contact. I remember saying that he would make a great NBA player if he developers an outside shot. Turns out he was already a pretty good shooter.

This is the guy that destroyed Kawai Leonard 1v1, 1v2, and 1v3. He can't defend and he can't rebound so he's pretty useless as a role player. He needs the ball, and no team is willing to give him a chance. Too many great scorers and too many players with "potential". Remember, the people in Sacramento that chose Evans/Thomas over Freddette are the same people that wanted Ellis over Curry.

I say go to China and put up 35 PPG for the next decade.

[oaktownwarriors87]

I need to know, what is it people saw in him that made them think he'd be a pro? Even when I watched him in college I didn't think he'd cut it in the NBA.

And for some reason, the name Jimmer Fredette makes me think of that annoying kid your parents made you hang out with.

High release. He was scoring on long, athletic defenders. He was pretty strong and could even finish after taking contact from a big man. He went 2-1 against Kawai his senior year while averaging 32.7. Had Kawai not been embarrassed by Jimmer so many times he would have been picked much higher in the draft.

People like to compare him to Curry and JJ. He's a bit shorter than both, but he has longer arms. At the combine he beat JJ in speed, agility, strengths and vert. He beat Curry in everything but vert.

https://youtu.be/2OgKn8VGHas?t=2m50s

[Manute Lol]

High, quick release.

Quick release?! Jimmer's release is an abomination. If he actually had a quick release, he'd be an NBA player.

[oaktownwarriors87]

High, quick release.

Quick release?! Jimmer's release is an abomination. If he actually had a quick release, he'd be an NBA player.

You said that just as I edited it. He gets high on his release, but it isn't quick like Curry.... there is a slight hesitation up top. A quicker, lower release would do wonders for his game.

[Johnlac1]

The best use for Fredette would be basically to let him play like he did at BYU. But only for 15-20 minutes a game. Two people he's usually compared to, Korver and Redick, have different games than Fredette. They move without the ball and are allowed to shoot every time they have an open shot.
The best use for Fredette, given his weak defense, would be to give him the ball, set some screens and let him shoot from three pt. distance (preferably) or drive and pass. Fredette still is (or was) one of the few players who can nail threes off the dribble on a dead run.
No team he played for would play him like that. And of course, one big reason was he was giving up a tidal wave of points on defense without producing nearly as much offensively.
In the end, it comes down to if he could play semi-adequate defense, he'd still be in the league.
But even if his def. was adequate, again the best use for him would be to use him as a reserve to spark the offense and let him gun.

[The_Didact_117]

Jimmer is awful. I watched him plenty this preseason and dude is just bad. Not sure why he has such a long topic on ST and the topic of a scrub getting cut made 6 pages here but whatever. :lol

Jimmer will never have an NBA career. He is too bad at everything but one thing and even that he couldn't seem to do either. No thanks

[blind prophet]

Looks like he is headed for D league.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865640273/Morning-links-Jimmer-Fredette-to-the-D-League-Jakob-Poeltl-ranked-among-centers-Ziggy-Ansah.html?pg=all

[PCProductions]

This guy was drafted on name only, and of course by the Kings who are proven to be abysmal in the draft. This guy is just not an NBA-level player and is delusional about it on top of that.

[kodo]

Fredette 17 points for the Bulls.

Interesting thing about one of the few rare Jimmer appearances for us, almost everything was inside the 3 point line. He was asked to do more than just jack up 3s like Nick Young and play team ball.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Gx61v5tFms[/youtube]