Joe Ingles is a top 30 player this season

Catchall · Post #101 » by **Catchall** » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:05 pm

Dan Z wrote:Where was he ranked on ESPN's top 100? I know who cares about ESPN, but I'm curious.

Somewhere around 50-60, I think.

alessandrux · Post #102 » by **alessandrux** » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:35 pm

ESPN ranked him at 53.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24651811/nbarank-2018-19-100-51-best-players-season

LightTheBeam · Post #103 » by **LightTheBeam** » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:39 pm

ESPNs list is obviously horrid. At a quick glance its easy to say hes better than Rubio, Mirotic, Covington, Turner, Murray, Conley, Harris, Gordon, Gordon, at a minimum. Which would put him at 45. I think many others are debatable as well.

For instance give me Jingles over criminally overrated #25 Love

DETermination · Post #104 » by **DETermination** » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:41 pm

Top 30? More like top 3.

kuclas · Post #105 » by **kuclas** » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:44 pm

Ingles is a top 40-50 player. For him to be top 30. Means he could be the alpha dog on a bad team. Can he be the alpha dog for Sacramento? He’d get exposed pretty badly if he were the first option.

He’s more likely the 2nd option on a bad team or 3rd option on a good team.

Mauro Pedrosa · Post #106 » by **Mauro Pedrosa** » Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:06 pm

I looooove Joe Ingles. Had to pour out some liquor when I traded him from my fantasy team yesterday

TheBonzaiEffect · Post #107 » by **TheBonzaiEffect** » Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:14 pm

kuclas wrote:Ingles is a top 40-50 player. For him to be top 30. Means he could be the alpha dog on a bad team. Can he be the alpha dog for Sacramento? He’d get exposed pretty badly if he were the first option.

He’s more likely the 2nd option on a bad team or 3rd option on a good team.

That's horrifically stupid logic. You're saying you'd rather have prime Monta Ellis than Jingles?

Post #108 » by **Texas Chuck** » Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:51 pm

kuclas wrote:Ingles is a top 40-50 player. For him to be top 30. Means he could be the alpha dog on a bad team. Can he be the alpha dog for Sacramento? He’d get exposed pretty badly if he were the first option.

He’s more likely the 2nd option on a bad team or 3rd option on a good team.

Odd. Lots of great players would fail as 1st options. Is Draymond a top 30 player? Obviously. Would he get exposed if he was the top scoring option?

Meanwhile mediocre players like Kevin Martin have put up solid numbers as 1st options, but no one is ever confusing them with being great players.

Joe Ingles can be a tremendously valuable player without ever being a first option.

CIN-C-STAR · Post #109 » by **CIN-C-STAR** » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:01 pm

Who's your most-likable-good-but-non-star-player team right now? No All-Stars, current or former, allowed.
I got Jeremy Linn, Danny Green, Joe Ingles, Julius Randle, Steven Adams

lakerz12 · Post #110 » by **lakerz12** » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:02 pm

TheBonzaiEffect wrote:
kuclas wrote:Ingles is a top 40-50 player. For him to be top 30. Means he could be the alpha dog on a bad team. Can he be the alpha dog for Sacramento? He’d get exposed pretty badly if he were the first option.

He’s more likely the 2nd option on a bad team or 3rd option on a good team.

That's horrifically stupid logic. You're saying you'd rather have prime Monta Ellis than Jingles?

Easily, yes.

Prime Monta averaged 25/5/4/2.2 stls...he was approaching an elite (top 15-20 player in the league) level. Super quick and in the top 5 in the NBA in steals. #2 in steals behind CP3 in his prime.

Joe is off to a hot start (in 2 games) but there's no way he touches or surpasses prime Monta level for a whole season.

Keep in mind Ingles averaged 11.5 PPG last year. And he's now 31 years old. He'll likely finish at around 15/5/5 for the season.

jjscap · Post #111 » by **jjscap** » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:03 pm

He improved a lot last year, added new shots/moves to his arsenal, started shooting off the dribble and such. When I said he'd improve again in '18-19 and was nowhere near his prime people thought it was funny. After all he's a 31 old unathletic white guy that looks like a math teacher, insurance guy, unemployed uncle.. Lastly some GSW fan said:

“It must be really frustrating having to defend Ingles, that guy looks like he just walked out of a bar at 5 am in the morning, but is hitting 3 after 3 right in your face over and over again”

will · Post #112 » by **will** » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:24 pm

Ingles done been killin it.

Baddest white boy in the game. Period.

TheBonzaiEffect · Post #113 » by **TheBonzaiEffect** » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:32 pm

lakerz12 wrote:
TheBonzaiEffect wrote:
kuclas wrote:Ingles is a top 40-50 player. For him to be top 30. Means he could be the alpha dog on a bad team. Can he be the alpha dog for Sacramento? He’d get exposed pretty badly if he were the first option.

He’s more likely the 2nd option on a bad team or 3rd option on a good team.

That's horrifically stupid logic. You're saying you'd rather have prime Monta Ellis than Jingles?

Easily, yes.

Prime Monta averaged 25/5/4/2.2 stls...he was approaching an elite (top 15-20 player in the league) level. Super quick and in the top 5 in the NBA in steals. #2 in steals behind CP3 in his prime.

Joe is off to a hot start (in 2 games) but there's no way he touches or surpasses prime Monta level for a whole season.

Keep in mind Ingles averaged 11.5 PPG last year. And he's now 31 years old. He'll likely finish at around 15/5/5 for the season.

On tons of volume and low efficiency...

Prime Monta was horrifically inefficient. A volume chucker who couldn't shoot threes or get to the line. Tons of turnovers, and steals aside (gambler), awful defender.

Dude had a high of .89 WS/48, and 53.6% TS in his prime, which is TERRIBLE. Highest VORP was 2.2. Jingles had a 3.3 VORP last year. .141 WS/48, 62.3% TS.

This is no contest. Jingles has a way bigger positive impact on winning than Monta ever did.

clyde21 · Post #114 » by **clyde21** » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:40 pm

One of the best utility/glue guys in the entire league. Called that contract they gave him a steal at the time. Just does a lot of things well across the board.

lakerz12 · Post #115 » by **lakerz12** » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:49 pm

TheBonzaiEffect wrote:
lakerz12 wrote:
TheBonzaiEffect wrote:
That's horrifically stupid logic. You're saying you'd rather have prime Monta Ellis than Jingles?

Easily, yes.

Prime Monta averaged 25/5/4/2.2 stls...he was approaching an elite (top 15-20 player in the league) level. Super quick and in the top 5 in the NBA in steals. #2 in steals behind CP3 in his prime.

Joe is off to a hot start (in 2 games) but there's no way he touches or surpasses prime Monta level for a whole season.

Keep in mind Ingles averaged 11.5 PPG last year. And he's now 31 years old. He'll likely finish at around 15/5/5 for the season.

On tons of volume and low efficiency...

Prime Monta was horrifically inefficient. A volume chucker who couldn't shoot threes or get to the line. Tons of turnovers, and steals aside (gambler), awful defender.

Dude had a high of .89 WS/48, and 53.6% TS in his prime, which is TERRIBLE. Highest VORP was 2.2. Jingles had a 3.3 VORP last year. .141 WS/48, 62.3% TS.

This is no contest. Jingles has a way bigger positive impact on winning than Monta ever did.

Put Prime Monta on this Jazz team...

Put Joe Ingles on that Warriors team...

It's a whole lot easier playing next to Rubio, Mitchell, and Gobert.

If Ingles was first option and faced the other team's #1 defender and took 22 shots per game, his efficiency would take a hit too.

All of these "advanced" stats have to be taken within context. Your teammates drastically impact these stats.

The same goes for the normal, volume stats I posted too. But I'd still take Monta on a pure talent, eye test basis.

But please, don't throw out these "advanced" stats like you're proving something. As if you can measure Jingle's "positive impact on winning" on an apples to apples basis vs. Monta when one played on a crappy team and the other plays on a very good team.

You're not using common sense and reasoning if you think these "advanced" metrics can actually isolate an individual's contribution irregardless of his teammates. It's impossible.

Do you really think the prime Monta Warriors would win more games if Ingles replaced Monta??? No, they wouldn't. Ingles "positive impact on winning" is predicated on him being surrounded by 3 great players.

sca · Post #116 » by **sca** » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:54 pm

Top five players in the league

Mirotic
Ingles
Cedi
LeVert
THJ

Who am I missing?

lakerz12 · Post #117 » by **lakerz12** » Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:00 pm

sca wrote:Top five players in the league

Mirotic
Ingles
Cedi
LeVert
THJ

Who am I missing?

FVV.

TheBonzaiEffect · Post #118 » by **TheBonzaiEffect** » Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:10 pm

lakerz12 wrote:
TheBonzaiEffect wrote:
lakerz12 wrote:
Easily, yes.

Prime Monta averaged 25/5/4/2.2 stls...he was approaching an elite (top 15-20 player in the league) level. Super quick and in the top 5 in the NBA in steals. #2 in steals behind CP3 in his prime.

Joe is off to a hot start (in 2 games) but there's no way he touches or surpasses prime Monta level for a whole season.

Keep in mind Ingles averaged 11.5 PPG last year. And he's now 31 years old. He'll likely finish at around 15/5/5 for the season.

On tons of volume and low efficiency...

Prime Monta was horrifically inefficient. A volume chucker who couldn't shoot threes or get to the line. Tons of turnovers, and steals aside (gambler), awful defender.

Dude had a high of .89 WS/48, and 53.6% TS in his prime, which is TERRIBLE. Highest VORP was 2.2. Jingles had a 3.3 VORP last year. .141 WS/48, 62.3% TS.

This is no contest. Jingles has a way bigger positive impact on winning than Monta ever did.

Put Prime Monta on this Jazz team...

Put Joe Ingles on that Warriors team...

It's a whole lot easier playing next to Rubio, Mitchell, and Gobert.

If Ingles was first option and faced the other team's #1 defender and took 22 shots per game, his efficiency would take a hit too.

All of these "advanced" stats have to be taken within context. Your teammates drastically impact these stats.

The same goes for the normal, volume stats I posted too. But I'd still take Monta on a pure talent, eye test basis.

But please, don't throw out these "advanced" stats like you're proving something. As if you can measure Jingle's "positive impact on winning" on an apples to apples basis vs. Monta when one played on a crappy team and the other plays on a very good team.

You're not using common sense and reasoning if you think these "advanced" metrics can actually isolate an individual's contribution irregardless of his teammates. It's impossible.

Do you really think the prime Monta Warriors would win more games if Ingles replaced Monta??? No, they wouldn't. Ingles "positive impact on winning" is predicated on him being surrounded by 3 great players.

Lol, this is such nonsense. Yeah, those pesky advanced stats mean nothing compared to your "eye test." Monta also played on a playoff Dallas team, a playoff Pacers team, and the Bucks. Somehow, go figure, he was highly inefficient on all those teams. I don't care if Monta can chuck 22 shots on a bad team...he isn't helping his team win. Ingles is.

azcatz11 · Post #119 » by **azcatz11** » Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:19 pm

lakerz12 wrote:
TheBonzaiEffect wrote:
lakerz12 wrote:
Easily, yes.

Prime Monta averaged 25/5/4/2.2 stls...he was approaching an elite (top 15-20 player in the league) level. Super quick and in the top 5 in the NBA in steals. #2 in steals behind CP3 in his prime.

Joe is off to a hot start (in 2 games) but there's no way he touches or surpasses prime Monta level for a whole season.

Keep in mind Ingles averaged 11.5 PPG last year. And he's now 31 years old. He'll likely finish at around 15/5/5 for the season.

On tons of volume and low efficiency...

Prime Monta was horrifically inefficient. A volume chucker who couldn't shoot threes or get to the line. Tons of turnovers, and steals aside (gambler), awful defender.

Dude had a high of .89 WS/48, and 53.6% TS in his prime, which is TERRIBLE. Highest VORP was 2.2. Jingles had a 3.3 VORP last year. .141 WS/48, 62.3% TS.

This is no contest. Jingles has a way bigger positive impact on winning than Monta ever did.

Put Prime Monta on this Jazz team...

Put Joe Ingles on that Warriors team...

It's a whole lot easier playing next to Rubio, Mitchell, and Gobert.

If Ingles was first option and faced the other team's #1 defender and took 22 shots per game, his efficiency would take a hit too.

All of these "advanced" stats have to be taken within context. Your teammates drastically impact these stats.

The same goes for the normal, volume stats I posted too. But I'd still take Monta on a pure talent, eye test basis.

But please, don't throw out these "advanced" stats like you're proving something. As if you can measure Jingle's "positive impact on winning" on an apples to apples basis vs. Monta when one played on a crappy team and the other plays on a very good team.

You're not using common sense and reasoning if you think these "advanced" metrics can actually isolate an individual's contribution irregardless of his teammates. It's impossible.

Do you really think the prime Monta Warriors would win more games if Ingles replaced Monta??? No, they wouldn't. Ingles "positive impact on winning" is predicated on him being surrounded by 3 great players.

Rubio is a great player? Since when? Anyways, if you put Monta on the Jazz he'd be a horrible fit. Likewise with Ingles on those GSW teams. Ingles is the definition of an elite role player. Similar to Draymond (don't roast me for this but he is)

Coach Carter · Post #120 » by **Coach Carter** » Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:19 pm

he has the highest IQ, after bron offcourse