Simmons, Mitchell and Tatum

[GeorgeMarcus]

Simmons is the only one of the three who plays the game right. Tatum at this point is an inefficient chucker with tunnel vision. Mitchell in his last game took 36 shots, made like 30% of em, and got zero assists. He could be the worst player ever to shoot 36 shots in an nba game, so need I say more.

Tatum (career so far)
11 fga per game
58 TS%

Simmons (career so far)
12 fga per game
55 TS%

First of all, when did 58 TS% become inefficient. Second when did 11 shots a game make you a chucker? Third if those things make you an inefficient chucker. What does this make Simmons then? Even less efficient and puts up more shots.

I see you D4L... Don't be rounding up for Tatum and rounding down for Simmons! .579 and .557 TS% respectively

[Kalela]

Won't rank them but I voted for Tatum. He is looking good in the last two games.

[GeorgeMarcus]

This is ridiculous.

Simmons was part of the '16 draft class and has been in the NBA THREE SEASON. Say it with me again: THREE. SEASONS. He's not a sophomore, regardless of what BS technicality allowed him to win the ROTY award in his second season.

I'm not sure why Philly fans are fighting so hard against this. No one is saying he's not a good player.

The league has rules in place to defines these terms. You might as well argue with Merrriam Webster about the meaning of the word "ameliorate". The only objective authority we have at our disposal states that Simmons is indeed a sophomore.

If you're concerned with the practical implications rather than established definitions, then the poster above is spot on. That would be no different than focusing on the practical implications of Mitchell's age.

I'm not disputing Simmons' award. I'm disputing that he's currently a sophomore. Let's not completely ignore the facts on the ground, like the fact that he's going to hit FA a year sooner than Tatum/Mitchell for a reason.

I'm not ignoring that any more than you're ignoring Mitchell's age. The truth is, we aren't ignoring those things, but they aren't applicable to the terms being discussed.

[clyde21]

The league has rules in place to defines these terms. You might as well argue with Merrriam Webster about the meaning of the word "ameliorate". The only objective authority we have at our disposal states that Simmons is indeed a sophomore.

If you're concerned with the practical implications rather than established definitions, then the poster above is spot on. That would be no different than focusing on the practical implications of Mitchell's age.

I'm not disputing Simmons' award. I'm disputing that he's currently a sophomore. Let's not completely ignore the facts on the ground, like the fact that he's going to hit FA a year sooner than Tatum/Mitchell for a reason.

I'm not ignoring that any more than you're ignoring Mitchell's age. The truth is, we aren't ignoring those things, but they aren't applicable to the terms being discussed.

What does age have to do with this? Mitchel has TWO years of NBA experience. Simmons has THREE.

[Duke4life831]

Simmons is the only one of the three who plays the game right. Tatum at this point is an inefficient chucker with tunnel vision. Mitchell in his last game took 36 shots, made like 30% of em, and got zero assists. He could be the worst player ever to shoot 36 shots in an nba game, so need I say more.

Tatum (career so far)
11 fga per game
58 TS%

Simmons (career so far)
12 fga per game
55 TS%

First of all, when did 58 TS% become inefficient. Second when did 11 shots a game make you a chucker? Third if those things make you an inefficient chucker. What does this make Simmons then? Even less efficient and puts up more shots.

I see you D4L... Don't be rounding up for Tatum and rounding down for Simmons! .579 and .557 TS% respectively

[GeorgeMarcus]

I'm not disputing Simmons' award. I'm disputing that he's currently a sophomore. Let's not completely ignore the facts on the ground, like the fact that he's going to hit FA a year sooner than Tatum/Mitchell for a reason.

I'm not ignoring that any more than you're ignoring Mitchell's age. The truth is, we aren't ignoring those things, but they aren't applicable to the terms being discussed.

What does age have to do with this? Mitchel has TWO years of NBA experience. Simmons has THREE.

Again- that's not true based on the only objective authority we have at our disposal. He didn't see the court for a single minute so I don't even see how it's a matter of technicality.

I know your mind is made up so I suppose I'll leave it at that.

[clyde21]

I'm not ignoring that any more than you're ignoring Mitchell's age. The truth is, we aren't ignoring those things, but they aren't applicable to the terms being discussed.

What does age have to do with this? Mitchel has TWO years of NBA experience. Simmons has THREE.

Again- that's not true based on the only objective authority we have at our disposal. He didn't see the court for a single minute so I don't even see how it's a matter of technicality.

I know your mind is made up so I suppose I'll leave it at that.

He didn't see the court -- but he still spent an entire year before Tatum and Mitchell learning the offense, being in NBA nutritional program, studying film, getting used to the travel schedule, the amount of games, getting acquainted with his coaching staff and teammates...while the true rookies were spending half the time taking Swahili and Polisci classes in college. That counts for something, and the idea that we should throw all of that out of the window because Philly decided to keep him off the court so they can continue their tank is ludicrous.

Look, he won ROTY because of the rules. It's fine. But it doesn't mean we have to continue suspending reality. He was in the NBA one full years before these guys, and will be a FA one full year before those guys. He's not a sophomore. I'm sorry.

[TheBallsDeeper]

This is ridiculous.

Simmons was part of the '16 draft class and has been in the NBA THREE SEASON. Say it with me again: THREE. SEASONS. He's not a sophomore, regardless of what BS technicality allowed him to win the ROTY award in his second season.

I'm not sure why Philly fans are fighting so hard against this. No one is saying he's not a good player.

The league has rules in place to defines these terms. You might as well argue with Merrriam Webster about the meaning of the word "ameliorate". The only objective authority we have at our disposal states that Simmons is indeed a sophomore.

If you're concerned with the practical implications rather than established definitions, then the poster above is spot on. That would be no different than focusing on the practical implications of Mitchell's age.

I'm not disputing Simmons' award. I'm disputing that he's currently a sophomore. Let's not completely ignore the facts on the ground, like the fact that he's going to hit FA a year sooner than Tatum/Mitchell for a reason.

So under your classification, Simmons improved his stats by 15.8/8.2/8.2 from his previous season, while Oladipo increased his by 7.2/0.9/1.7. Surely Simmons should have been 2018 most improved?? Or is it that he did not play in the previous season, so it doesn't count?

You've been pushing your anti-Simmons agenda for 12 months now on every thread possible, might be time to concede that the league has a rule, and move on.

[GeorgeMarcus]

What does age have to do with this? Mitchel has TWO years of NBA experience. Simmons has THREE.

Again- that's not true based on the only objective authority we have at our disposal. He didn't see the court for a single minute so I don't even see how it's a matter of technicality.

I know your mind is made up so I suppose I'll leave it at that.

He didn't see the court -- but he still spent an entire year before Tatum and Mitchell learning the offense, being in NBA nutritional program, studying film, getting used to the travel schedule, the amount of games, getting acquainted with his coaching staff and teammates...while the true rookies were spending half the time taking Swahili and Polisci classes in college. That counts for something, and the idea that we should throw all of that out of the window because Philly decided to keep him off the court so they can continue their tank is ludicrous.

Look, he won ROTY because of the rules. It's fine. But it doesn't mean we have to continue suspending reality. He was in the NBA one full years before these guys, and will be a FA one full year before those guys. He's not a sophomore. I'm sorry.

Dude, he was in a boot all year Meanwhile Tatum and Mitchell were actually playing for prestigious basketball universities. Don't buy this spiel in the least bit but whatever helps you sleep at night.

[har13]

So many threads about Simmons, why?

All i know is that i prefer Mitchell or Tatum for the Bucks, i imagine most of the teams need both of them more than Simmons.
A lot of good PGs in the Nba who can also shoot so, i get it, Simmons stats are good and he is a good D player, maybe he can be a great player and be a star but for me both Tatum and Mitchell can fit better for most of the teams especially those with already a star player.

[dautjazz]

Ben Simmons was the KIA 2017-18 NBA Rookie of the Year. He is currently playing - in 2018-19 - in his second (sometimes referred to as "sophomore) season in the NBA.

Your turn.

Simmons was a paid professional on a NBA contract in 2016. They hand-waive this away for awards so they can celebrate talented players that were injured (like with Blake Griffin), but Simmons was still a 2nd year player in 2017.

Hmm...that's interesting. I went to Basketball Reference and looked up his stats from the 2016-17 season, and I couldn't seem to find them. That site is usually pretty good as far as finding advanced stats like DWS or DBPM...strange.

Hey! Could you help a brother out and post Simmons' 2016-17 stats? Thanks!

They don't have a stat for DNP - Tank yet

[RRyder823]

I'm not ignoring that any more than you're ignoring Mitchell's age. The truth is, we aren't ignoring those things, but they aren't applicable to the terms being discussed.

What does age have to do with this? Mitchel has TWO years of NBA experience. Simmons has THREE.

Again- that's not true based on the only objective authority we have at our disposal. He didn't see the court for a single minute so I don't even see how it's a matter of technicality.

I know your mind is made up so I suppose I'll leave it at that.

Good freaking lord. Simmons will have been accredited with 3 NBA seasons after this one by the same objective authority you are being so quick to site. Just because you can win RoY in your 2nd year doesnt change the fact that hes still a 3rd year player.



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[GeorgeMarcus]

What does age have to do with this? Mitchel has TWO years of NBA experience. Simmons has THREE.

Again- that's not true based on the only objective authority we have at our disposal. He didn't see the court for a single minute so I don't even see how it's a matter of technicality.

I know your mind is made up so I suppose I'll leave it at that.

Good freaking lord. Simmons will have been accredited with 3 NBA seasons after this one by the same objective authority you are being so quick to site. Just because you can win RoY in your 2nd year doesnt change the fact that hes still a 3rd year player.

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? That's obviously not true after they recognized him as being a rookie last year. I assume you're referring to his contract, but most of us are talking about the sport of basketball.

[RRyder823]

Again- that's not true based on the only objective authority we have at our disposal. He didn't see the court for a single minute so I don't even see how it's a matter of technicality.

I know your mind is made up so I suppose I'll leave it at that.

Good freaking lord. Simmons will have been accredited with 3 NBA seasons after this one by the same objective authority you are being so quick to site. Just because you can win RoY in your 2nd year doesnt change the fact that hes still a 3rd year player.

Sent from my SM-G892A using RealGM mobile app

? That's obviously not true after they recognized him as being a rookie last year. I assume you're referring to his contract, but most of us are talking about the sport of basketball.

The objective authority has accredited him with 2 seasons prior to this one. That is not open for debate. It's an objective truth.

Another objective truth is that they allow for someone to be classified as a rookie during their 2nd year. It still doesnt change the fact that they are in their 2nd year.

It's not complicated

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[GeorgeMarcus]

Good freaking lord. Simmons will have been accredited with 3 NBA seasons after this one by the same objective authority you are being so quick to site. Just because you can win RoY in your 2nd year doesnt change the fact that hes still a 3rd year player.

Sent from my SM-G892A using RealGM mobile app

? That's obviously not true after they recognized him as being a rookie last year. I assume you're referring to his contract, but most of us are talking about the sport of basketball.

The objective authority has him accredited for 2 seasons prior to this one. That is not open for debate. It's an objective truth.

Another objective truth is that they allow for someone to be classified as a rookie during their 2nd year. It still doesnt change the fact that they are in their 2nd year.

It's not complicated

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Ah so you're talking about his contract and not basketball. Got it. If he was classified as a rookie las year, well... It's not hard to do the math.

[RRyder823]

? That's obviously not true after they recognized him as being a rookie last year. I assume you're referring to his contract, but most of us are talking about the sport of basketball.

The objective authority has him accredited for 2 seasons prior to this one. That is not open for debate. It's an objective truth.

Another objective truth is that they allow for someone to be classified as a rookie during their 2nd year. It still doesnt change the fact that they are in their 2nd year.

It's not complicated

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Ah so you're talking about his contract and not basketball. Got it. If he was classified as a rookie las year, well... It's not hard to do the math.

Once again..... You can be classified as a rookie and NOT be in your 1st year. It's only a classification.

Either you're not understanding that, refusing to accept it or just plainly ignoring it and it isnt clear which

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[GeorgeMarcus]

The objective authority has him accredited for 2 seasons prior to this one. That is not open for debate. It's an objective truth.

Another objective truth is that they allow for someone to be classified as a rookie during their 2nd year. It still doesnt change the fact that they are in their 2nd year.

It's not complicated

Sent from my SM-G892A using RealGM mobile app

Ah so you're talking about his contract and not basketball. Got it. If he was classified as a rookie las year, well... It's not hard to do the math.

Once again..... You can be classified as a rookie and NOT be in your 1st year. It's only a classification.

Either you're not understanding that, refusing to accept it or just plainly ignoring it isnt clear which

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We are classifying him as a *basketball* player, so there's only one designation that matters. By definition, no player in any sport has ever gone from a rookie to a 3rd year player in the span of 1 year.

[Fencer reregistered]

As far as I'm concerned, guys have different levels of preparation before their rookie seasons. Simmons' details are are among the most unique, because of the redshirt pro year.

[RRyder823]

Ah so you're talking about his contract and not basketball. Got it. If he was classified as a rookie las year, well... It's not hard to do the math.

Once again..... You can be classified as a rookie and NOT be in your 1st year. It's only a classification.

Either you're not understanding that, refusing to accept it or just plainly ignoring it isnt clear which

Sent from my SM-G892A using RealGM mobile app

We are classifying him as a *basketball* player, so there's only one designation that matters. By definition, no player in any sport has ever gone from a rookie to a 3rd year player in the span of 1 year.

You do know that in baseball that a player can be classified as a rookie even if he played major league ball the year BEFORE?

Hes a year 3 player that was classified as a rookie in his 2nd year. It's not complicated.

Your either way too caught up in believing that all rookies are unequivocally year one guys or simply refusing to take the L.

If you REALLY want to argue this simply call him a a redshirt sophmore. Still isnt the same as being a true sophmore though but at least you'd actually have some ground to stand on

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[AussieCeltic]

The Simmons not being a real rookie/sophomore narrative is getting real old. Is it because he’s not American? I don’t remember one peep about this when Blake Griffin did the same thing. It’s just getting so tiring now.

Plus the whole jump shot thing is overplayed. If he can already be this great without it, then he doesn’t necessarily need one. Would he be a better player? Hell yeh. He’d be a top 5 player with one. But at the end of the day, he’s going to be an all star in his second year (should’ve been one in his rookie year) without one. Goes to show what kind of player he is