Why Would FAs Go To Knicks over Nets?

[sfernald]

The Instagram girls are hotter in NY than NJ actually so there you go.

[gpoon]

Prestige.

But neither franchise is getting anything, so it’s a moot point.

What prestige?
They are losing-est franchise this millennium and haven't won a title in 40+ years.

Is it just MSG?

There is something about NYC and MSG... the Knicks are trash and have been trash for a long time, yet they still get Christmas games.

[TheNetsFan]

The biggest thing NYK has over Brooklyn is the local media. The Dolans were media guys, and have deep connections, although that is starting to fray due to little Jimmy's insecurities (blacklist WFAN because Maggie Gray hurt his feelings, ban a beat reporter from a session). These things will backfire.

MSG is the most overrated arena in sports. The only thing it has going for it is the address. It's a dated arena, and the "Mecca" nickname was from college basketball, not the Knicks. They tore down beautiful architecture (original Penn Station) to build an ugly round brown thing.

Fact: The team with the worst record since 2000 is the Knicks.

Fact: The Knicks organization has a history of dysfunction under Little Jimmy Dolan. They treat former legends like **** (Oakley, Ewing, etc.). There's been multiple sexual harassment scandals. They've ruined legacies & turned on guys. Name the last good/great player, coach or executive that went there and improved rather than tarnished his legacy (Melo, Phil, Walsh, Brown, D'Antoni...)? Players & Agents take note of that.

Fact: The last time the Knicks were really relevant, most of the current players hadn't been born yet.

Fact: Brooklyn, by itself, would be a top 5 city in terms of population in the US.

Counterpoints:
Elite FAs don't typically flock to the northeast in ANY sport, especially winter sports. That doesn't bode well for either team.

Established fans don't typically switch allegiances. I've moved from northern NJ to MA & then to PA, but still root for the team I gre up with. That being said, there are a ton of fair-weather fans in the NY area thirsting for a winner. Younger fans also tend to be much more willing to root for new teams either do to a player, success or other factors.


A selling point that the Nets have is that in spite of not having high picks, this regime has drafted really well & made huge improvements in just 2 years. That ability is critical if you land FAs & cap yourselves out in the process. The Knicks have had high picks & have been getting worse or at best in neutral.

[Trader_Joe]

Prestige.

But neither franchise is getting anything, so it’s a moot point.

What prestige?
They are losing-est franchise this millennium and haven't won a title in 40+ years.

Is it just MSG?

There is something about NYC and MSG... the Knicks are trash and have been trash for a long time, yet they still get Christmas games.

Which hasn't led to on the court success or attraction of major free agents.
Don't see what changed...

[Hello Brooklyn]

i think the nets have to be more than just good, just as the clips have to be more than just good. all that time with blake and cp3 ultimately got the clips nowhere in la because they just couldn't establish anything. as it CURRENTLY stands in nyc, the nets aren't good enough. they're better than nyk but it's not enough to just be better

Clips situation is not comparable because Knicks dont have a history of winning rings. People don't love the Knicks like they love the Lakers.

You are a 100% wrong about this. If the Knicks are even a legitimate playoff team, they own all the media coverage and that’s all anyone and everyone talks about.

I remember in the 90’s when the Yankees were in the playoffs and the back cover story was instead a Knicks FA transaction.

I love having two teams here. I’ll even watch them if the Knicks aren’t on. I know plenty of ppl who have no problem with them being good. I even give massive credit to their FO for the moves they’ve made. Knicks fans on RealGM hate it.

Still, I as a diehard would never change allegiance and most casual fans I know will be Knicks first. You’d have to be GSW or CHI MJ years or LAL Shaq Kobe level good to flip this town. Maybe if you guys land Zion and he really is the next top tier player. It would take an unbelievable amount of star power and winning to loosen the stranglehold the Knicks have on this town.

Baseball is split. Football is split. There’s always been one basketball team till recently. It is a Knicks town by a gigantic margin.

When the Nets were in the playoffs they had plenty of media coverage. In fact, I remember the Nets being on the front page in 2014 when they beat the Raptors. So you're wrong about that.

I know die hards like you will never change their allegiance. I just don't think most people are die hard Knicks fans. They like the Knicks because they're New York's team. But if they have another option people will switch over. Not hard core Knicks fans like you, but casuals.

Knicks own by a huge margin, but its only cause the Nets are new. Nets already have more Facebook likes in Brooklyn than the Knicks do. I know thats not the best indicator but it shows the potential for the Nets to take over Brooklyn at least.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Only way NY would flip over to the Nets is if there were a dynasty being built.

Knicks, even through all their mediocrity, have always be NY's team. When they were halfway decent, MSG was probably the hottest ticket in all of NY sports.

Yeah not true. If the Nets just win 1 Championship they will become the team in New York. Especially in Brooklyn.

Loyalty to the Knicks doesn't run that deep in NY. People are tired of Dolan.

The idea of NY flipping to Brooklyn Nets is absolutely laughable. The Knicks fanbase is one of the strongest/die hard in the league and they have been awful for a long time.

I grew up in NNJ when the Nets were good and all my friends and I were Knicks fans. All my friends on the AAU basketball circuit at the time were Knicks fans. I'm sure the Nets filled the stadium with fair weather fans but there was basically 0 fanbase in Jersey. Now they are in Brooklyn which is still Knicks town.

Aside from maybe this year, when was the last time the Lakers were better than the Clippers? And the Clippers are still 2nd fiddle

I grew up i NNJ too, and when the Nets were in the Finals everyone liked the Nets. That's such a lie. You saw Kidd jerseys everywhere. Knicks were totally irrelevant back then.

Saying there is 0 fan base in NJ when the Nets were good is complete nonsense. Nobody in NJ was watching Steve Francis and Steph Marbury.

The Lakers have won 16 championships. Are you really comparing the Knicks to them? It's not the same thing lol. People in NY don't love you like they loved the Lakers in LA.

[bringinhinkie]

Prestige.

But neither franchise is getting anything, so it’s a moot point.

What prestige?
They are losing-est franchise this millennium and haven't won a title in 40+ years.

Is it just MSG?

not prestige, mostly that MSG lure and whatever rep NY had back in the day of being a basketball mecca, whatever that means

it means there is a history and tons and tons of world class talent coming out of the area

not that it would mean much to me personally over saying living in LA, but to many it does.. and the marketability of NYC is undeniable

the issue is all this has become moot due to the ownership and only 1 decent season in 2 decades .. you'd be crazy to sign with the knicks as a top gun (right now)

also, re: the OP.. MSG is in the heart of NYC.. Brooklyn is up and coming, but you can walk to MSG from Penn Station/34th/etc very quickly.. it is just there chilling right in the city

there is no doubt it is amazing to play there, but again, the team needs to prove stability/smart decision-making longterm - which they haven't even come close to

[Hello Brooklyn]

i think the nets have to be more than just good, just as the clips have to be more than just good. all that time with blake and cp3 ultimately got the clips nowhere in la because they just couldn't establish anything. as it CURRENTLY stands in nyc, the nets aren't good enough. they're better than nyk but it's not enough to just be better

Clips situation is not comparable because Knicks dont have a history of winning rings. People don't love the Knicks like they love the Lakers.

the rings of success have nothing to do with it. the knicks/yankees/giants CULTURE is the same as the dodgers/lakers culture. like a birthright, part of the dna, like a legacy that gets handed down every generation. being a laker fan is about everything the rings, the non-rings in the 60s, chick hearn, just like the dodgers and koufax and scully. the celebrity awareness. like,,,i look at lebron in the laker jersey and he looks like he should have been wearing that jersey for his whole career. the "other teams", nets and clips, become an afterthought as a result.

That's complete nonsense. That kind of stuff only matters for die hard fans.

Most NBA fans are casual and don't care that much about the history or culture. People in LA love the Lakers cause they've won so many championships. The Knicks haven't done that.

People in New York are starving for a good basketball team. If they get it, they're gonna root for the better team.

We've seen this happen before. Chicago used to be such a white sox town. After the Cubs won, it flipped over real quick.

Same thing happened when the Mets won the world series in '86.

[CKB]

The Nets fan base is mediocre at best. I went to a few games at Barclays. Many attended the games because they wanted to watch the opposing team. When OKC went to Brooklyn to play, the whole arena cheered for OKC and booed the Nets when they were on the free throw line. I was shaking my head the whole night.

I also went to the Nets and Knicks open practice this year. The Nets open practice was at Brooklyn Bridge Park. Maybe 400 fans attended the event. The Knicks open practice was located in MSG and estimated 2000 fans attended. It shows the difference in fanbases.

On the court, Nets basketball system is better. The ball never stops moving. It is a lot driving into the lane and kicking out to three point shooters. The Knicks has the best player in KP and a potential top 3 pick in the upcoming draft.

If a superstar like Durant or Leonard joins either team, Knicks or Nets will instantly become contenders in the east.

[SpeedyG]

It's quite pointless to talk about hardcore fans. Those fans will never change their allegiance, and for that the Knicks clearly have an edge over the Nets.

But if we're discussing top FAs (and not just B level guys, like a Middleton, no disrespect) then that is really irrelevant because an A level superstar going to Knicks, Nets, or just about any team (see Cleveland with/without Lebron) brings all the casuals to the arena.

How strong the Knicks fan base is vs Nets fan base doesn't matter because a Kawhi/Durant/Kyrie etc level of player will cause an immediate jump in attendance and coverage.

And given how well the Nets have operated under Marks and Atkinson, it's pretty safe to assume that (barring ridiculous bad luck), whatever success they get after attaining that superstar will be sustainable for a foreseable future.

And while the Knicks have a large fanbase in NY, the Nets have a larger international fanbase...and that's before Tsai (Alibaba/Asia's google) officially gets his hands on them.

Besides, Manhattan is glamour and times square, and lights.

But to the newer younger fans?

Brooklyn is hip-hop. And they are far easier to attach themselves to that "culture" if given a star to follow.

Sent from my SM-G925T using RealGM mobile app

[Rockice_24]

I’m all for supporting your team and I really do like both players, but this is way too much hyperbole.

I still remember last summer when BKN fans were here saying DLo is better than KP

Not really a hyperbole at all really. Both guys are playing great ball Levert not so much because of the injury but after you take the all stars out there is a group of guys playing great ball who are probably in the next tier discussing the guys that missed out.

Din - 18 and 5 shooting 47% and 37% for 3
Levert - 18 and 4 rbs, just shy of 4 apg shooting 48% while typically covering the other teams best wing

I see no reason that's not in that next tier of guys just below the all stars. Hell Kyle Lowery was an all star last year and put up 16, 7apg, and 5.5 rbs shooting 42%.

Disagree by all means but hyperbole it's not when you actually pay attention to how well they are/were playing.

[NY2TheBay]

The Garden is an attractive venue to some if not most.

[Akolades]

I’m really curious how Real Estate is going to play into it.

The Nets built a beautiful practice facility in Brooklyn, and along with the Barclays Center, offer a player a fully Brooklyn/NYC lifestyle.

The Knicks play in the Garden but pracfice in Long Island.

For people that have never been here, that’s a world of difference. I almost feel like you’d have an easier time living in a condo in the city as a Nets player than a Knicks player.

Carmelo mentioned that the Knicks had trouble attracting young talent because of the lifestyle. The Knicks tend to be awesome for family centric players in the 30’s. Live in LI, big mansion etc. The Nets are set up for the young, metro lifestyle. If you really want to be a part of what makes NYC and Brooklyn fun, the Nets make that easier. Keep that 1 hour commute from Long Island far away.

[dakomish23]

Clips situation is not comparable because Knicks dont have a history of winning rings. People don't love the Knicks like they love the Lakers.

You are a 100% wrong about this. If the Knicks are even a legitimate playoff team, they own all the media coverage and that’s all anyone and everyone talks about.

I remember in the 90’s when the Yankees were in the playoffs and the back cover story was instead a Knicks FA transaction.

I love having two teams here. I’ll even watch them if the Knicks aren’t on. I know plenty of ppl who have no problem with them being good. I even give massive credit to their FO for the moves they’ve made. Knicks fans on RealGM hate it.

Still, I as a diehard would never change allegiance and most casual fans I know will be Knicks first. You’d have to be GSW or CHI MJ years or LAL Shaq Kobe level good to flip this town. Maybe if you guys land Zion and he really is the next top tier player. It would take an unbelievable amount of star power and winning to loosen the stranglehold the Knicks have on this town.

Baseball is split. Football is split. There’s always been one basketball team till recently. It is a Knicks town by a gigantic margin.

When the Nets were in the playoffs they had plenty of media coverage. In fact, I remember the Nets being on the front page in 2014 when they beat the Raptors. So you're wrong about that.

I know die hards like you will never change their allegiance. I just don't think most people are die hard Knicks fans. They like the Knicks because they're New York's team. But if they have another option people will switch over. Not hard core Knicks fans like you, but casuals.

Knicks own by a huge margin, but its only cause the Nets are new. Nets already have more Facebook likes in Brooklyn than the Knicks do. I know thats not the best indicator but it shows the potential for the Nets to take over Brooklyn at least.

I can only tell you what I know from my 25 years of Knicks fandom. I have no problem with BKN being successful.

It's just an overwhelmingly huge Knicks town. Maybe BKN has 5%? Still seems too high. I do think if you guys get a super exciting player, that will at least peak interest in the team.

[DarkXaero]

There are no great reasons to go for big FAs to go to Knicks over Nets, unless they have Knicks fandom connection, and really wish to play at MSG. Of course, Knicks are the far popular franchise, but they're not a historically great by any means. In fact, if anything, they're by far the most overrated franchise in American sports. They have done absolutely nothing in terms of championship success since the early 70s. They've been the worst team in the NBA of the 00s era. Their ownership is garbage, and they've been terribly managed for almost the last two decades.

If we're comparing rosters, KP is comfortably the best player between the two teams. But outside of KP, Nets roster is significantly better, with guys like Dinwiddie, Levert, Harris making big strides. In addition, there's the very positive development of young rookie/2nd year players like Jarrett Allen & Kurucs. The market is the same, Brooklyn is still NYC. If a player like KD signs with the Nets for example, popularity doesn't even matter. NBA popularity is dictated by bandwagon & fairweather fans. Warriors fandom dominates the league right now, and they weren't a historically great/big franchise before Curry/Klay etc. Superstars and success would change things tremendously. The hardcore Knicks fans will likely stay Knicks fans, but the bandwagoners would flock.


Nets have the Knicks beat in every other category. Better ownership? Yes. Better FO/management? Huge edge. Better cap situation to attract two star FAs? Yes. Better coaching/staff? Yes. Newer arena, fantastic new practice facility in BK? Yes.

[Hello Brooklyn]

You are a 100% wrong about this. If the Knicks are even a legitimate playoff team, they own all the media coverage and that’s all anyone and everyone talks about.

I remember in the 90’s when the Yankees were in the playoffs and the back cover story was instead a Knicks FA transaction.

I love having two teams here. I’ll even watch them if the Knicks aren’t on. I know plenty of ppl who have no problem with them being good. I even give massive credit to their FO for the moves they’ve made. Knicks fans on RealGM hate it.

Still, I as a diehard would never change allegiance and most casual fans I know will be Knicks first. You’d have to be GSW or CHI MJ years or LAL Shaq Kobe level good to flip this town. Maybe if you guys land Zion and he really is the next top tier player. It would take an unbelievable amount of star power and winning to loosen the stranglehold the Knicks have on this town.

Baseball is split. Football is split. There’s always been one basketball team till recently. It is a Knicks town by a gigantic margin.

When the Nets were in the playoffs they had plenty of media coverage. In fact, I remember the Nets being on the front page in 2014 when they beat the Raptors. So you're wrong about that.

I know die hards like you will never change their allegiance. I just don't think most people are die hard Knicks fans. They like the Knicks because they're New York's team. But if they have another option people will switch over. Not hard core Knicks fans like you, but casuals.

Knicks own by a huge margin, but its only cause the Nets are new. Nets already have more Facebook likes in Brooklyn than the Knicks do. I know thats not the best indicator but it shows the potential for the Nets to take over Brooklyn at least.

I can only tell you what I know from my 25 years of Knicks fandom. I have no problem with BKN being successful.

It's just an overwhelmingly huge Knicks town. Maybe BKN has 5%? Still seems too high. I do think if you guys get a super exciting player, that will at least peak interest in the team.

Look at this map and you'll see the Nets are more popular than the Knicks in certain parts of Brooklyn.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/05/12/upshot/basketball-map.html#10,40.637,-74.029

[Klayforspicy]

Whoever makes the Knicks good again gets a massive boost. Amare pre injury was an MVP candidate.

But if you underperform in NYC then your career is over.

[Lalouie]

Clips situation is not comparable because Knicks dont have a history of winning rings. People don't love the Knicks like they love the Lakers.

the rings of success have nothing to do with it. the knicks/yankees/giants CULTURE is the same as the dodgers/lakers culture. like a birthright, part of the dna, like a legacy that gets handed down every generation. being a laker fan is about everything the rings, the non-rings in the 60s, chick hearn, just like the dodgers and koufax and scully. the celebrity awareness. like,,,i look at lebron in the laker jersey and he looks like he should have been wearing that jersey for his whole career. the "other teams", nets and clips, become an afterthought as a result.

That's complete nonsense. That kind of stuff only matters for die hard fans.

Most NBA fans are casual and don't care that much about the history or culture. People in LA love the Lakers cause they've won so many championships. The Knicks haven't done that.

People in New York are starving for a good basketball team. If they get it, they're gonna root for the better team.

We've seen this happen before. Chicago used to be such a white sox town. After the Cubs won, it flipped over real quick.

Same thing happened when the Mets won the world series in '86.

most nba fans are casual?
casual enough to pay over $50 per?? no, that's not casual. the casual fan doesn't just pick any ole event, not when they pay over $50. you go outside of the big cities to where the sports team means everything to that demographic...there's nothing "casual" about it, and that's where more than half the casual fans live.

the nets average 77% and are dead last so far this season. the knicks are #9 and average 97%. those numbers DON'T reflect the quality of the teams

[dakomish23]

When the Nets were in the playoffs they had plenty of media coverage. In fact, I remember the Nets being on the front page in 2014 when they beat the Raptors. So you're wrong about that.

I know die hards like you will never change their allegiance. I just don't think most people are die hard Knicks fans. They like the Knicks because they're New York's team. But if they have another option people will switch over. Not hard core Knicks fans like you, but casuals.

Knicks own by a huge margin, but its only cause the Nets are new. Nets already have more Facebook likes in Brooklyn than the Knicks do. I know thats not the best indicator but it shows the potential for the Nets to take over Brooklyn at least.

I can only tell you what I know from my 25 years of Knicks fandom. I have no problem with BKN being successful.

It's just an overwhelmingly huge Knicks town. Maybe BKN has 5%? Still seems too high. I do think if you guys get a super exciting player, that will at least peak interest in the team.

Look at this map and you'll see the Nets are more popular than the Knicks in certain parts of Brooklyn.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/05/12/upshot/basketball-map.html#10,40.637,-74.029

So my 5% was too high?

[Hello Brooklyn]

the rings of success have nothing to do with it. the knicks/yankees/giants CULTURE is the same as the dodgers/lakers culture. like a birthright, part of the dna, like a legacy that gets handed down every generation. being a laker fan is about everything the rings, the non-rings in the 60s, chick hearn, just like the dodgers and koufax and scully. the celebrity awareness. like,,,i look at lebron in the laker jersey and he looks like he should have been wearing that jersey for his whole career. the "other teams", nets and clips, become an afterthought as a result.

That's complete nonsense. That kind of stuff only matters for die hard fans.

Most NBA fans are casual and don't care that much about the history or culture. People in LA love the Lakers cause they've won so many championships. The Knicks haven't done that.

People in New York are starving for a good basketball team. If they get it, they're gonna root for the better team.

We've seen this happen before. Chicago used to be such a white sox town. After the Cubs won, it flipped over real quick.

Same thing happened when the Mets won the world series in '86.

most nba fans are casual?
casual enough to pay over $50 per?? no, that's not casual. the casual fan doesn't just pick any ole event, not when they pay over $50. you go outside of the big cities to where the sports team means everything to that demographic...there's nothing "casual" about it, and that's where more than half the casual fans live.

the nets average 77% and are dead last so far this season. the knicks are #9 and average 97%. those numbers DON'T reflect the quality of the teams

Were talking about popularity in New York. Were not talking about arena attendance.

Yes most people who watch the NBA are casual. Especially in a city like New York where theres 1000 things to do all the time.

And why are you bringing up this season? Were talking hypothetically if the Nets were good what would happen. Clearly you're not following.