Devin Booker - The Kaiser of Empty Stats

[Bolivar]

Who was the king of empty stats before Devin Booker? Cousins? I don't see any threads of cousins being an empty stat guy once he started winning on the warriors.

There's a thread every week about Cousins' negative impact and/or chances to ruin Warriors title runs, nobody really cares if that counts as empty stats or what

[clpp01]

Help win some **** games. There is seriously no reason why they are this trash, and if he is going to be lauded for being so talented, it needs to translate.

No reason?

Point is they should be better than they are. No one is expecting them to make the playoffs

What exactly is he supposed to do? He is playing on a team right who has just 2 other guys that are NBA caliber in Ayton & Bridges whom both have clearly hit the rookie wall and running on empty right now, they have no point guard, no power forward,they are currently down 4 guys in their rotation on a team that lacked talent even when healthy, the 1st options off the bench are Troy Daniels and 38 year old Jamal Crawford.

Fact is you could replace Booker with Harden or Curry or LeBron or (insert any star you want here) on this team and they are still going to be god awful

[NoDopeOnSundays]

What did that make Kyrie then prior to Lebron showing up? He was no winner either just a “stat” guy.

See, this is what's really annoying about the people in here defending Booker and bringing up other players with no context. The Cavs were 33-49 in Kyrie's 3rd season right before LeBron joined them, they weren't as hopeless looking as the Suns are right now. That Cavs team had young players and guys who weren't NBA caliber players with a bad head coach, yet they still won more games than the Suns have and Kyrie was still called a empty stat guy/loser despite having a better record than any of Bookers teams. So, is your hope that a all-time great player decides to join the Suns and show Booker how to win like LeBron did with Kyrie?

Nobody is asking Booker to lead them to the title, or even make the playoffs, but the fact they're only 3.5 games better than my Knicks is hilarious considering we're actively flat out tanking. The amount of excuses for his defense is incredible, he's arguably one of the worst defensive players in the NBA in team and man to man settings, but look at his TS!

[dremill24]

Ah, didn’t see that. Same concept...still weird.

No that's what im saying its even weirder... The hate for book is unreal... Like a poster said in another thread, "wtf did book do to you to make you hate him so much?!"

Or something along those lines.

But nobody is hating on Booker. People say that he is average player in this league, like top 200 player, who got overpaid by bad front office. And that opinion is very well confirmed by his advanced stats.
It's people like you who thinks that this opinion is hate when we voice it to disprove uneducated fans that say he's next Kobe or something like that.
Oh, and opinion that he will not get much better is not hate either, it's just analysis of his progression during 4 years he's been in the league.

I get what you’re saying, and there are times where it’s just evaluation/projection of what people see, which is the idea of forums like this. But threads/bumps like this is definitely just irrational hate. So to say ‘nobody’ is not the most accurate assessment.

[DB43]

Man the takes here are so terribly bad. Holy hell.

The best player on the planet couldn't take the Lakers to the playoffs in the western conferece. Booker and Lebron have missed around the same amount of time with injuries this season.

The suns have been missing TJ warren (20ppg player) for 30 games, Kelly Oubre, Tyler Johnson, Josh Jackson...

The starting line up was 3 Rookies and Bender last 2 games.

the guy is averaging 26.5 ppg, 7 assits, and almost 5 rebounds a game. The exact same numbers and Lillard, Beal, and close to Steph and Durant.

Harden is not a great defender, Steph Curry is not a great defender. They are 2 of the top 5 best players in the league.

Devin Booker WILL BE a superstar once he gets some help, and everyone here that is comparing him to Kevin Martin, and Wiggins doesn't know anything about Basketball.

[HeartBreakKid]

Man the takes here are so terribly bad. Holy hell.

The best player on the planet couldn't take the Lakers to the playoffs in the western conferece. Booker and Lebron have missed around the same amount of time with injuries this season.

The suns have been missing TJ warren (20ppg player) for 30 games, Kelly Oubre, Tyler Johnson, Josh Jackson...

The starting line up was 3 Rookies and Bender last 2 games.

the guy is averaging 26.5 ppg, 7 assits, and almost 5 rebounds a game. The exact same numbers and Lillard, Beal, and close to Steph and Durant.

Harden is not a great defender, Steph Curry is not a great defender. They are 2 of the top 5 best players in the league.

Devin Booker WILL BE a superstar once he gets some help, and everyone here that is comparing him to Kevin Martin, and Wiggins doesn't know anything about Basketball.

Both Curry and Harden are significantly better defenders than Booker which puts in perspective how awful Devin Booker is. James Harden his 1st or 2nd season was a better defender than Booker is now.

[HeartBreakKid]

Who was the king of empty stats before Devin Booker? Cousins? I don't see any threads of cousins being an empty stat guy once he started winning on the warriors.

Cousins is like the 5th best player on his team - hardly anyone even pays him any mind. If you're going to argue that Devin Booker can be the 5th best player then that doesn't convince others of his impact.

[DB43]

Man the takes here are so terribly bad. Holy hell.

The best player on the planet couldn't take the Lakers to the playoffs in the western conferece. Booker and Lebron have missed around the same amount of time with injuries this season.

The suns have been missing TJ warren (20ppg player) for 30 games, Kelly Oubre, Tyler Johnson, Josh Jackson...

The starting line up was 3 Rookies and Bender last 2 games.

the guy is averaging 26.5 ppg, 7 assits, and almost 5 rebounds a game. The exact same numbers and Lillard, Beal, and close to Steph and Durant.

Harden is not a great defender, Steph Curry is not a great defender. They are 2 of the top 5 best players in the league.

Devin Booker WILL BE a superstar once he gets some help, and everyone here that is comparing him to Kevin Martin, and Wiggins doesn't know anything about Basketball.

Both Curry and Harden are significantly better defenders than Booker which puts in perspective how awful Devin Booker is. James Harden his 1st or 2nd season was a better defender than Booker is now.

Are they though? They are surrounded with much better defenders than Booker is. To say they are significantly better is a stretch. I don't blame anyone for not watching the suns play. But thats false.

[HeartBreakKid]

Man the takes here are so terribly bad. Holy hell.

The best player on the planet couldn't take the Lakers to the playoffs in the western conferece. Booker and Lebron have missed around the same amount of time with injuries this season.

The suns have been missing TJ warren (20ppg player) for 30 games, Kelly Oubre, Tyler Johnson, Josh Jackson...

The starting line up was 3 Rookies and Bender last 2 games.

the guy is averaging 26.5 ppg, 7 assits, and almost 5 rebounds a game. The exact same numbers and Lillard, Beal, and close to Steph and Durant.

Harden is not a great defender, Steph Curry is not a great defender. They are 2 of the top 5 best players in the league.

Devin Booker WILL BE a superstar once he gets some help, and everyone here that is comparing him to Kevin Martin, and Wiggins doesn't know anything about Basketball.

Both Curry and Harden are significantly better defenders than Booker which puts in perspective how awful Devin Booker is. James Harden his 1st or 2nd season was a better defender than Booker is now.

Are they though? They are surrounded with much better defenders than Booker is. To say they are significantly better is a stretch. I don't blame anyone for not watching the suns play. But thats false.

Then maybe you haven't seen them play or you're a poor evaluator of defense? I'm actually not sure how anyone who is educated on the topic can think Devin Booker is anywhere near the defender Steph Curry is. Stephen Curry is not even a bad defender....

[DB43]

To make another point,

After the trade deadline when the Suns played Tyler Johnson, Booker, Oubre, Mikal Bridges and Ayton they were a very good defensive unit. They also won games. Beat some of the best teams in the NBA. Then Oubre was out for the year with a thumb injury and tyler johnson hasn't played the last 8 games.

When he has better players around him. and better defenders around him. HIs team wins. We only got a very very small sample size of it.

[Alfred]

They need to surround him with 3&D players. That’s typically been the formula for building around ball dominant guys with poor defense.

[Chanel Bomber]

It would be incredibly foolish of the Suns to trade Booker. He's a legit talent and I would probably take him #2 in a re-draft.

But it's also true that at this stage in his career he puts up a lot of empty stats and hasn't learned how to translate his numbers into actual impact. His impact on the game is still very light, and this has nothing to do with his defense, which of course needs to improve. He just doesn't yet have the gravitational pull that All-NBA players have, which leads to better team play. With better players and with more experience, he will start having more impact. He needs more than just help though, it also needs to come from within.

I'll be concerned about Booker if the Suns are still bottom-feeders in two years. But you just don't give up on a 22 yo guard averaging 26.5ppg on .580 TS% and who can play both on and off the ball. Just stop missing on your draft picks.

[CraftylikeaFox]

Man the takes here are so terribly bad. Holy hell.

The best player on the planet couldn't take the Lakers to the playoffs in the western conferece. Booker and Lebron have missed around the same amount of time with injuries this season.

The suns have been missing TJ warren (20ppg player) for 30 games, Kelly Oubre, Tyler Johnson, Josh Jackson...

The starting line up was 3 Rookies and Bender last 2 games.

the guy is averaging 26.5 ppg, 7 assits, and almost 5 rebounds a game. The exact same numbers and Lillard, Beal, and close to Steph and Durant.

Harden is not a great defender, Steph Curry is not a great defender. They are 2 of the top 5 best players in the league.

Devin Booker WILL BE a superstar once he gets some help, and everyone here that is comparing him to Kevin Martin, and Wiggins doesn't know anything about Basketball.

Both Curry and Harden are significantly better defenders than Booker which puts in perspective how awful Devin Booker is. James Harden his 1st or 2nd season was a better defender than Booker is now.

Are they though? They are surrounded with much better defenders than Booker is. To say they are significantly better is a stretch. I don't blame anyone for not watching the suns play. But thats false.

I love watching the Suns. They are super entertaining even when they lose and am excited for what they do in the future. I also think Booker is much better than the majority of people give him credit for. Some of the takes on him here are truly comical. That being said, his defense is atrocious. He is one of the few people in the league who actually make Harden look like a good defender in comparison.

[Buzzard]

It would be incredibly foolish of the Suns to trade Booker. He's a legit talent and I would probably take him #2 in a re-draft.

But it's also true that at this stage in his career he puts up a lot of empty stats and hasn't learned how to translate his numbers into actual impact. His impact on the game is still very light, and this has nothing to do with his defense, which of course needs to improve. He just doesn't yet have the gravitational pull that All-NBA players have, which leads to better team play. With better players and with more experience, he will start having more impact. He needs more than just help though, it also needs to come from within.

I'll be concerned about Booker if the Suns are still bottom-feeders in two years. But you just don't give up on a 22 yo guard averaging 26.5ppg on .580 TS% and who can play both on and off the ball. Just stop missing on your draft picks.

To me he is a more polished scorer than JJ but not as good a defender. Put some players around him and he will be better than just fine. Or trade him to the Hawks like they did JJ; and we will see what we can do with him.

[Frank Lee]

Suns went out in this draft and got him a stud big man and the perfect 3 and D wing, and he still doesn't have enough help. He's not a franchise guy period

You are so wrong.

Bridges and Ayton are rookies - you are acting like they are veterans. They have both shown a ton of promise, but it is going to take a couple years.

The Suns have flipped the switch, you would not know that because you don't watch them every game, but I do. They are going to be far better next year.

I would not have said the same thing 2 months ago, but the team has figured it out.

The reason they have lost the last few games is Oubre and Tyler Johnson are out. They are the only other players aside from Booker that can initiate the offense effectively.

Even with the defense doubling the crap out of Booker, he is still showing remarkable effectiveness. He has taken his game to a whole nother level in the last month.

May be he is referring to the year when they brought in game changers Dudley and Chandler. Damn that Book, he even ran them off

[bondom34]

https://fansided.com/2019/03/29/nylon-calculus-historical-precedent-devin-booker/

Just read this earlier and thought it was a good insight with solid logic. Mostly feels how I do:

So, what is Booker? If I had to guess, he’s more of a second option. He’s grown into a very impressive all-around scorer between his shooting, touch, and foul-drawing, yet his true initiator equity remains in flux. He’s grown meaningfully in that respect, but he still turns the ball over a ton and is all too prone to decision-making that forces the viewer’s forehead to become acquainted with his palm.

But I don’t know. I think there’s a very real chance Booker works out as a primary ball-handler. I wouldn’t call it likely or bet on it myself, but it’s well within his range of outcomes. And that’s ultimately what we’re talking about with Booker still: a range of outcomes. The history of players comparable to Booker doesn’t indicate he’s destined for stardom, but it doesn’t disqualify him either. It’s something to note, and it’s definitely not encouraging, but realistically, we’re still waiting to learn what Devin Booker is capable of.

He's not a superstar, but still might be really good.

[The_Hater]

https://fansided.com/2019/03/29/nylon-calculus-historical-precedent-devin-booker/

Just read this earlier and thought it was a good insight with solid logic. Mostly feels how I do:

So, what is Booker? If I had to guess, he’s more of a second option. He’s grown into a very impressive all-around scorer between his shooting, touch, and foul-drawing, yet his true initiator equity remains in flux. He’s grown meaningfully in that respect, but he still turns the ball over a ton and is all too prone to decision-making that forces the viewer’s forehead to become acquainted with his palm.

But I don’t know. I think there’s a very real chance Booker works out as a primary ball-handler. I wouldn’t call it likely or bet on it myself, but it’s well within his range of outcomes. And that’s ultimately what we’re talking about with Booker still: a range of outcomes. The history of players comparable to Booker doesn’t indicate he’s destined for stardom, but it doesn’t disqualify him either. It’s something to note, and it’s definitely not encouraging, but realistically, we’re still waiting to learn what Devin Booker is capable of.

He's not a superstar, but still might be really good.

You almost have to give Booker both credit and criticism for the last 2 seasons.

It’s very difficult in the NBA to a high volume guy and put up terrific all around numbers with decent efficiency. Booker has done this and it’s not like his teammates are helping get him better looks with their passing of bending defenses away from him with their skill and shooting.

But at the same time, if Booker was as good as those numbers suggest the Suns wouldn’t be sitting at the or near the bottom of the league in wins, offensive and defensive efficiency every season.

He’s young so I think it’s too early to pigeon hole him. He’s not likely a top option on a top team but there are a lot of slots for good players just below that level and I think he can fit himself into one of those. Let’s just hope that his Suns experience hasn’t ruined his chance to play on a future winner with all the bad habits he’s picked up.

[itlnsunsfan]

Paul Pierce was the number one option on the Celtics. Booker reminds me of a guard version of him. I don't see any reason he can't be the number one on a good team. Right now, he's top 10 in scoring and top 15 in assists, as a 22 year old. His body hasn't even matured yet. People discredit him because the Suns suck, but it's pretty obvious he is and will be a top 10 offensive option in the league.

[JDJ26]

https://fansided.com/2019/03/29/nylon-calculus-historical-precedent-devin-booker/

Just read this earlier and thought it was a good insight with solid logic. Mostly feels how I do:

So, what is Booker? If I had to guess, he’s more of a second option. He’s grown into a very impressive all-around scorer between his shooting, touch, and foul-drawing, yet his true initiator equity remains in flux. He’s grown meaningfully in that respect, but he still turns the ball over a ton and is all too prone to decision-making that forces the viewer’s forehead to become acquainted with his palm.

But I don’t know. I think there’s a very real chance Booker works out as a primary ball-handler. I wouldn’t call it likely or bet on it myself, but it’s well within his range of outcomes. And that’s ultimately what we’re talking about with Booker still: a range of outcomes. The history of players comparable to Booker doesn’t indicate he’s destined for stardom, but it doesn’t disqualify him either. It’s something to note, and it’s definitely not encouraging, but realistically, we’re still waiting to learn what Devin Booker is capable of.

He's not a superstar, but still might be really good.

So in theory would that make Ayton the potential first option down the line?

[bondom34]

https://fansided.com/2019/03/29/nylon-calculus-historical-precedent-devin-booker/

Just read this earlier and thought it was a good insight with solid logic. Mostly feels how I do:

So, what is Booker? If I had to guess, he’s more of a second option. He’s grown into a very impressive all-around scorer between his shooting, touch, and foul-drawing, yet his true initiator equity remains in flux. He’s grown meaningfully in that respect, but he still turns the ball over a ton and is all too prone to decision-making that forces the viewer’s forehead to become acquainted with his palm.

But I don’t know. I think there’s a very real chance Booker works out as a primary ball-handler. I wouldn’t call it likely or bet on it myself, but it’s well within his range of outcomes. And that’s ultimately what we’re talking about with Booker still: a range of outcomes. The history of players comparable to Booker doesn’t indicate he’s destined for stardom, but it doesn’t disqualify him either. It’s something to note, and it’s definitely not encouraging, but realistically, we’re still waiting to learn what Devin Booker is capable of.

He's not a superstar, but still might be really good.

So in theory would that make Ayton the potential first option down the line?

I don't think they have that first option on the roster right now.