Giannis Antetokounmpo's FIBA Stats vs. NBA Stats

[FlatearthZorro]

2018-19 NBA MVP Giannis Antetkounmpo's averages in the 2018-19 NBA regular season:

27.7 points per game
12.5 rebounds per game

and his stats in the 2019 NBA playoffs (where NBA teams supposedly play "real defense"):

25.5 points per game
12.3 rebounds per game


Giannis Antetokounmpo's stats so far in Greece's 2019 FIBA World Cup preparation (7 games so far):

Game 1: 19 points and 11 rebounds against Hungary (very weak opponent)

Game 2: 19 points and 8 rebounds against Iran (very weak opponent)

Game 3: 18 points and 8 rebounds against Turkey

Game 4: 16 points and 10 rebounds against Italy (minus its NBA players)

Game 5: 20 points and 1 rebound against Serbia (minus Nikola Jokic)

Game 6: 13 points and 4 rebounds against Jordan (very weak opponent)

Game 7: 26 points and 4 rebounds against Dominican Republic (minus their NBA players - very weak opponent)

averages so far (7 games):

18.7 points per game
6.6 rebounds per game


What is interesting about this to me is, that a very large majority of this forum will claim things like this any time a discussion comes up about the EuroLeague, or any player in the EuroLeague:

"Giannis averaged 28 and 13 in the NBA, so he would obviously average like 50 and 30 in the EuroLeague".

Note that the above opposition (other than Serbia) is much worse than your average EuroLeague team........


So the serious question here is very obvious - just how inflated are the NBA's stats?

Some other players that come to mind off the top of my head, that have had much worse stats in FIBA national team competitions than in the NBA:

Ricky Rubio
Steph Curry
Derrick Rose

etc.

The court is smaller, which gives him less space to attack, also less star treatment and the game is more physical which obviously results in fewer FTAs and fouls drown(he averaged what 9-10 in the NBA?)...

[FlatearthZorro]

He's been exposed as a paper tiger mvp. He got shut down by a old guy. Bad look for his career. Not sure if bucks can rely on him as the true #1 guy

THat's taking it a bit too far and the Bucks can def rely on him as #1 cause the NBA is marketing him as the next LBJ, he was in every other commercial during breaks in the playoffs. He will continue drawing fouls and getting to the line thus making him close to unguardable with the style of b-ball he plays(which is super physical)...

[Mickey8]

He better show up against New Zealand or Greece might be eliminated tomorrow.

[Mirotic12]

International basketball fans have always been very vocal and passionate. I wonder what it is about Giannis that gives them an incredible hate boner. How do these people feel about how Euroleague MVP's tend to fair in the NBA?

We shouldn't generalize here. International basketball fans do not have a hate boner for Giannis. Only Mirotic12 has a hate boner for Giannis and his reasons are well... different.

So calling out the NBA's Most Valuable Player for getting outplayed by Alex Garcia is now being a hater? Seriously?

I guess Brazil's head coach is also a hater then?

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/fibawc/928466/aleksandar-petrovic-ive-know-for-six-months-how-to-stop-giannis-garcia-kicked-his-a/

Petrovic: I’ve know for six months how to stop Giannis; Garcia kicked his ass

“Why this sport is wonderful? On the other side, you have a guy who won the MVP, he’s 23 years old and who stops him tonight? The guy who is 40 years old and kicks his ass on the court! That’s basketball!

We showed that we have several players who can stop Antetokounmpo. But yesterday I was more occupied with Sloukas and Printezis, and that’s what happened today. When I was preparing this game, a lot of people talked and joked about how to stop Antetokounmpo. I had for six months in my head, since the semifinals between Toronto and Milwaukee, how to stop Antetokounmpo. The problem tonight for us was Sloukas and Printezis.”

[Nuntius]

International basketball fans have always been very vocal and passionate. I wonder what it is about Giannis that gives them an incredible hate boner. How do these people feel about how Euroleague MVP's tend to fair in the NBA?

We shouldn't generalize here. International basketball fans do not have a hate boner for Giannis. Only Mirotic12 has a hate boner for Giannis and his reasons are well... different.

So calling out the NBA's Most Valuable Player for getting outplayed by Alex Garcia is now being a hater? Seriously?

I guess Brazil's head coach is also a hater then?

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/fibawc/928466/aleksandar-petrovic-ive-know-for-six-months-how-to-stop-giannis-garcia-kicked-his-a/

You have been calling out both Giannis and his brother, Thanasis, for a long, long time now. Please, don't pretend that you're only calling him out now as a result of yesterday's game. Be sincere.

[Mirotic12]

We shouldn't generalize here. International basketball fans do not have a hate boner for Giannis. Only Mirotic12 has a hate boner for Giannis and his reasons are well... different.

So calling out the NBA's Most Valuable Player for getting outplayed by Alex Garcia is now being a hater? Seriously?

I guess Brazil's head coach is also a hater then?

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/fibawc/928466/aleksandar-petrovic-ive-know-for-six-months-how-to-stop-giannis-garcia-kicked-his-a/

You have been calling out both Giannis and his brother, Thanasis, for a long, long time now. Please, don't pretend that you're only calling him out now as a result of yesterday's game. Be sincere.

Only when Giannis constantly plays so bad with Greece. This has been going on for years now. In 2016, he was horrible against the same coach, when he was coaching Croatia, and his horrid play cost Greece an Olympics birth. Giannis swore he would beat the same coach and/or team the next time he faced them. Maybe he forgot who the coach was...

We have 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, and so far in this tournament as examples of Giannis not being able to do much of anything at all for Greece's national team. He's the NBA's MVP for crying out loud, and he can't even perform adequately against the old washed up has beens of Brazil's team? You want to be honest - let's be honest then. A bunch of old washed up has beens, that are several years past their primes is what Brazil's team is. They made Giannis look rather poor.

If discussing how a South American team of old washed up has beens can cause so many problems for the NBA's current MVP is being a hater, then it is impossible for anyone to ever discuss any player ever with even an ounce of objectivity here.


As for Thanasis.........he's a joke of a professional basketball player. No one who understands the game and is objective that has seen him play thinks he would ever have made the NBA or EuroLeague if he wasn't Giannis' brother. No one that has even basic basketball knowledge and is being honest and objective would deny how terrible Thanasis is. The game announcers joke about how he can average more fouls committed than points per game......it's honestly quite embarrassing that the Bucks signed him.

Some more honesty - Greek media is on Giannis big time right now. They never once criticized him for poor performances at 2014 FIBA World Cup, 2015 EuroBasket, or 2016 Olympics Qualification Tournament (despite numerous times he deserved it) - Greek media always said that he was too young and not ready. Well, he's definitely getting criticized big time right now. So is the media also just being haters? Even ESPN (which is about the single biggest Giannis fan club in the world), has been mildly criticizing him over it.

[mixerball]

the one thing nobody is talking abut... minutes played and game length

also the most obvious one... he cant drive as much in this condensed paint

[Cavsfansince84]

My best guess is that Giannis’ stats being less in international play are a function of both his minutes and total possessions per game being down. I’d wager his per play/per 100 possessions stats are higher in international play than they are in the NBA.

Said another way, he wouldnt average 50-30 in Euroleague as the game is shorter and slower; however, I’d guess his per possession stats would be higher relative to his per possession stats in the NBA.

To your larger point, we just saw the MVP of the Euroleague come in and be the ~30th best player in the NBA [which isnt a true comparison as Doncic exhibited growth as a player from age 18 to 19]. His rebounds/assists per possession likely decreased in the move while his scoring increased. I think its fair to assume Giannis would grab more rebounds, likely have more assists, but score relatively fewer points overall [though again, this would be a function of minutes/possessions].

Doncic also had noticeable higher stats in NBA than he did in EuroLeague. It really looks like NBA stats are inflated and the 8 minute difference doesn't account for all of it. Even if we factor that in, Doncic had better averages in the NBA, if you prorate the numbers out another 8 minutes on average.

nba stats aren't inflated. They simply play under different rules.

[FlatearthZorro]

the one thing nobody is talking abut... minutes played and game length

also the most obvious one... he cant drive as much in this condensed paint

As I wrote above the court itself is kinda smaller and teams are playing a lots of zone( no idea if they did in this game as I didn't watch it, but I noticed 3-2 zone is pretty effective)...

[Hroz]

Not sure Giannis is in NBA shape
Also shorter games, means less points and rebound

And less spacing hurts his game a lot. (lack of 3second rule, smaller courts and closer pt lines, teams playing 2 bigs)
As an Australian i'm getting ready for that with Ben Simmons.

[KqWIN]

International basketball fans have always been very vocal and passionate. I wonder what it is about Giannis that gives them an incredible hate boner. How do these people feel about how Euroleague MVP's tend to fair in the NBA?

We shouldn't generalize here. International basketball fans do not have a hate boner for Giannis. Only Mirotic12 has a hate boner for Giannis and his reasons are well... different.

There are several negative comments and it’s not one poster. It’s not wrong to be negative per say, but the extent goes beyond normal rationale. I’ve see the other side of this, where fans are extremely passionate about a player for their country and will go to insane levels to defend them. It just seems odd that this passionate energy goes the other direction with Giannis.

I would expect Giannis to be showered with love. He should be an international superstar. He’s the MVP of the best league in the world and has a compelling personality and story.

[Forte IV]

Isn't Giannis also playing way less minutes? I saw a post of a guy comparing his FIBA stats to NBA stats without the context of Giannis only avg less than 25 mpg. Hell the two "official" games he's only avg 22 mpg. This whole thread is so stupid lol. There's no direct way to compare stats between the two, and even when people do, they don't even factor in mpg. Ridiculous.

[Pachinko_]

Isn't Giannis also playing way less minutes? I saw a post of a guy comparing his FIBA stats to NBA stats without the context of Giannis only avg less than 25 mpg. Hell the two "official" games he's only avg 22 mpg. This whole thread is so stupid lol. There's no direct way to compare stats between the two, and even when people do, they don't even factor in mpg. Ridiculous.

well the only way to compare would be to use per 36, but then there would be a crowd bashing you because you used per 36

[FlatearthZorro]

Isn't Giannis also playing way less minutes? I saw a post of a guy comparing his FIBA stats to NBA stats without the context of Giannis only avg less than 25 mpg. Hell the two "official" games he's only avg 22 mpg. This whole thread is so stupid lol. There's no direct way to compare stats between the two, and even when people do, they don't even factor in mpg. Ridiculous.

Minutes, smaller court, no 5 seconds violation, refs allowing more physical game and a lots of zone defense.

In the NBA it's different, cause he's a superstar and nearly every other time he bumps into people or bulldozes them it's a foul in his favor, in FIBA(I watched 3 games from this world cup) it seems like there aren't as many star calls, refs have been calling it fair and square so far. Kinda refreshing.

[stitches]

A lot of international coaches have zero idea about how to use superstars of the caliber of GIannis. They are just contend with running whatever offense they would run if they had no player that's clearly superior to the other players. They don't feed the star, they don't run stuff specifically designed for him, they don't build their roster and system specifically to benefit from that players strengths. This is NOT an isolated thing with Giannis.

I've been watching Collet fail summer after summer after summer to incorporate Gobert into his team and it's shocking. He has a two times NBA DPOY and top 3 center in the world and he has zero idea(or desire) to tweak a thing here or there to utilize Gobert's best attributes. I have no idea how he still has a job. His teams have consistently underperformed their talent for the last 4-5 years.

Overall the coaching in those international tournaments is horrible. Most coaches do more to hinder their players(especially the stars) than help them. The only one that has consistently impressed me is Djordjevic and to some extend Kokoskov with Slovenia.

[dhsilv2]

Isn't Giannis also playing way less minutes? I saw a post of a guy comparing his FIBA stats to NBA stats without the context of Giannis only avg less than 25 mpg. Hell the two "official" games he's only avg 22 mpg. This whole thread is so stupid lol. There's no direct way to compare stats between the two, and even when people do, they don't even factor in mpg. Ridiculous.

well the only way to compare would be to use per 36, but then there would be a crowd bashing you because you used per 36

You have to use PER 100 or PER 75. Pace has to be accounted for.

[Mirotic12]

A lot of international coaches have zero idea about how to use superstars of the caliber of GIannis. They are just contend with running whatever offense they would run if they had no player that's clearly superior to the other players. They don't feed the star, they don't run stuff specifically designed for him, they don't build their roster and system specifically to benefit from that players strengths. This is NOT an isolated thing with Giannis.

I've been watching Collet fail summer after summer after summer to incorporate Gobert into his team and it's shocking. He has a two times NBA DPOY and top 3 center in the world and he has zero idea(or desire) to tweak a thing here or there to utilize Gobert's best attributes. I have no idea how he still has a job. His teams have consistently underperformed their talent for the last 4-5 years.

Overall the coaching in those international tournaments is horrible. Most coaches do more to hinder their players(especially the stars) than help them. The only one that has consistently impressed me is Djordjevic and to some extend Kokoskov with Slovenia.

I can't see how Djordjevic is in any way at all impressive as a coach. Frankly, he's nowhere near good enough of a coach for a team like Serbia. I am pretty sure he isn't considered good enough of a coach in Europe for EuroLeague clubs. I'm not sure if he's even at the level of average for top European standards.

One thing I know for sure is, he's miles below the level of the best European coaches.

[stitches]

A lot of international coaches have zero idea about how to use superstars of the caliber of GIannis. They are just contend with running whatever offense they would run if they had no player that's clearly superior to the other players. They don't feed the star, they don't run stuff specifically designed for him, they don't build their roster and system specifically to benefit from that players strengths. This is NOT an isolated thing with Giannis.

I've been watching Collet fail summer after summer after summer to incorporate Gobert into his team and it's shocking. He has a two times NBA DPOY and top 3 center in the world and he has zero idea(or desire) to tweak a thing here or there to utilize Gobert's best attributes. I have no idea how he still has a job. His teams have consistently underperformed their talent for the last 4-5 years.

Overall the coaching in those international tournaments is horrible. Most coaches do more to hinder their players(especially the stars) than help them. The only one that has consistently impressed me is Djordjevic and to some extend Kokoskov with Slovenia.

I can't see how Djordjevic is in any way at all impressive as a coach. Frankly, he's nowhere near good enough of a coach for a team like Serbia. I am pretty sure he isn't considered good enough of a coach in Europe for EuroLeague clubs. I'm not sure if he's even at the level of average for top European standards.

One thing I know for sure is, he's miles below the level of the best European coaches.

Have to agree to disagree.

I'm talking specifically about the national teams' competitions. I am not very well versed with the coaches of the club teams. Who are some of the better Euro/international coaches in your books?

[Mirotic12]

Have to agree to disagree.

I'm talking specifically about the national teams' competitions. I am not very well verse with the coaches of the club teams. Who are some of the better Euro/international coaches in your books?

What is impressive about what he does with Serbia? He's easily one of the worst coaches they have had for me. He actually is a negative for them. He's probably their biggest weak point actually.

[stitches]

Have to agree to disagree.

I'm talking specifically about the national teams' competitions. I am not very well verse with the coaches of the club teams. Who are some of the better Euro/international coaches in your books?

What is impressive about what he does with Serbia? He's easily one of the worst coaches they have had for me. He actually is a negative for them. He's probably their biggest weak point actually.

I still remember Djordjevic abusing Gobert with Spain PnRs like 4-5 years ago, when the term "Spain PnR" was not in the general basketball public's vernacular and Collet had no idea how to adjust to it.

About his current roster - part of it is how much he seems to understand the strengths and weaknesses of his roster(what people were talking about here earlier). Just an example - Serbia are running a lot of DHOs and off-ball screen actions to get Bogdanovic the ball on the move, they run HORNS sets with their bigs to create opportunities for Jokic to playmake from the elbows, HORNs into handoffs to involve their other bigs. This on the surface is not anything special until you realize they play more than half of all their minutes with 2 centers on the floor simply because they have the talent there. They have 4 centers(+Bjelica) that are worthy of minutes and he runs a lot of his offense to put his best players in position to succeed.

They also run a lot of off-ball screens for Bogdanovic to either get him perimeter shots or to put the ball into his hands on the move because he's their best ballhandling guard and good things happen when the ball is in his hands, even though he's not a typical PG(unlike some other coaches who would rather give the ball to a real PG, who would pound the ball for 20 second, even if he's not anywhere close to the offensive creator and playmaker that the clearly best player on the roster is *cough*Giannis*cough*).

I think people overestimate the low-level extravagant wrinkles on national teams' stage. Those teams don't have a lot of time to work on intricate details. They get together for 4-6 weeks in the summer and they don't have time to smooth over every minute detail. The high level things IMO are much more important and that's why Serbia is rolling in the tournament so far - they have the talent and Djordjevic is emphasizing that talent by putting them into position to succeed(get the ball into Bogdanovic' hands, involve your bigs into most actions by handoffs, Jokic PnR and HORNs, etc, let Jokic make decisions, etc), rather than what Greece is doing with Giannis for example, where he just pretty much stays on the perimeter(or forced to give up the ball by double team and stay on the perimeter) and waits for the ball to find him after much less talented players are relied to run that offense. You have the freaking MVP of the NBA... treat him like it! Give him the ball, let him run the offense and create both for himself and others.

I think Djordjevic knows his team and I think he knows how to use his best players in a way that emphasizes their strengths.

Who are the coaches that you like on this World cup and in the European team competitions?