Kobe's statistical shortcomings

ProspectPark · Post #101 » by **ProspectPark** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:03 am

Lebron reached the NBA Finals 9 times.

All 9 times, he DID NOT FACE even one First Ballot HOF’er in their prime to get to the Finals.

Just think how pathetic that is.

Meanwhile Kobe has to face the Spurs with Tim Duncan and David Robinson or Parker and Ginobli and Coach Pop.

ProspectPark · Post #102 » by **ProspectPark** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:43 am

Gooner wrote:
7footMONSTER wrote:Kawhi picks Kobe over LeBron:

BuT yOu MuSt bE CrAzY iF yOu hAvE KoBe iN YoUr ToP 5

Watch on YouTube

Kawhi is crazy, did you hear his laugh? Lol. It woldn't surprise me if these LeBron fanboys reach for that explanation.

Lol did you see how Kawhi didn’t even hesitate when he said Kobe?

Gooner · Post #103 » by **Gooner** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:52 am

7footMONSTER wrote:
Gooner wrote:
7footMONSTER wrote:Kawhi picks Kobe over LeBron:

BuT yOu MuSt bE CrAzY iF yOu hAvE KoBe iN YoUr ToP 5

Watch on YouTube

Kawhi is crazy, did you hear his laugh? Lol. It woldn't surprise me if these LeBron fanboys reach for that explanation.

Lol did you see how Kawhi didn’t even hesitate when he said Kobe?

It's not a surprise, his game is more similar to Kobe's and MJ's, and he sees what makes those guys special. It's obvious to me that he studied their moves.

Amares · Post #104 » by **Amares** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:56 am

Kobe and GOAT debate :lol:

It's obvious he's out of top 10 in all-time ranking, i've been discussing these shortcomings for years with his fans as one of the proves he's never been goat caliber player. Kobe is like Dirk, West, or Malone top 11-20, which is still very good, but was never even close to some short group that dominated their era. Not sure why this topic returns while it's long over.

ProspectPark · Post #105 » by **ProspectPark** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:02 am

Amares wrote:Kobe and GOAT debate
It's obvious he's out of top 10 in all-time ranking, i've been discussing these shortcomings for years with his fans as one of the proves he's never been goat caliber player. Kobe is like Dirk, West, or Malone top 11-20, which is still very good, but was never even close to some short group that dominated their era. Not sure why this topic returns while it's long over.

“i've been discussing these shortcomings for years with his fans as one of the proves he's never been goat caliber player.”

lol what?

Gooner · Post #106 » by **Gooner** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:15 am

7footMONSTER wrote:
Amares wrote:Kobe and GOAT debate
It's obvious he's out of top 10 in all-time ranking, i've been discussing these shortcomings for years with his fans as one of the proves he's never been goat caliber player. Kobe is like Dirk, West, or Malone top 11-20, which is still very good, but was never even close to some short group that dominated their era. Not sure why this topic returns while it's long over.

“i've been discussing these shortcomings for years with his fans as one of the proves he's never been goat caliber player.”

lol what?

He is discussing Kobe's shortcomings, and yet he is conveniently ignoring LeBron's epic failures.

Amares · Post #107 » by **Amares** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:30 pm

Gooner wrote:
7footMONSTER wrote:
Amares wrote:Kobe and GOAT debate
It's obvious he's out of top 10 in all-time ranking, i've been discussing these shortcomings for years with his fans as one of the proves he's never been goat caliber player. Kobe is like Dirk, West, or Malone top 11-20, which is still very good, but was never even close to some short group that dominated their era. Not sure why this topic returns while it's long over.

“i've been discussing these shortcomings for years with his fans as one of the proves he's never been goat caliber player.”

lol what?

He is discussing Kobe's shortcomings, and yet he is conveniently ignoring LeBron's epic failures.

Kobe's failures were much bigger and happened more often, besides them LeBron played on much higher level for many years. No place to make any comparisons here.

beantownski · Post #108 » by **beantownski** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:34 pm

kobe never leading any of his championship teams in win shares is stat that no one in the GOAT convo can have.

Gooner · Post #109 » by **Gooner** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:39 pm

Amares wrote:
Gooner wrote:
7footMONSTER wrote:
“i've been discussing these shortcomings for years with his fans as one of the proves he's never been goat caliber player.”

lol what?

He is discussing Kobe's shortcomings, and yet he is conveniently ignoring LeBron's epic failures.

Kobe's failures were much bigger and happened more often, besides them LeBron played on much higher level for many years. No place to make any comparisons here.

No, he just padded his stats better. He had 2 finals series where he shot under 40%, he had that famous choke against Dallas, his Miami lost to Spurs by the record margin in NBA finals history, he got swept twice, he got outplayed by KD in the clutch two years in a row, and he was afraid to shoot in game 7 of 2016 finals, but Irving closed the deal for his team.

ProspectPark · Post #110 » by **ProspectPark** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:45 pm

Gooner wrote:
Amares wrote:
Gooner wrote:
He is discussing Kobe's shortcomings, and yet he is conveniently ignoring LeBron's epic failures.

Kobe's failures were much bigger and happened more often, besides them LeBron played on much higher level for many years. No place to make any comparisons here.

No, he just padded his stats better. He had 2 finals series where he shot under 40%, he had that famous choke against Dallas, his Miami lost to Spurs by the record margin in NBA finals history, he got swept twice, he got outplayed by KD in the clutch two years in a row, and he was afraid to shoot in game 7 of 2016 finals, but Irving closed the deal for his team.

+
2009 lost a series to Dwight Howard and Hedo Turkoglu
2010 quit on his Cav’s team.
2013 Finals Game 6 - 3 Turnovers in last 3 minutes before the Ray shot.

Amares · Post #111 » by **Amares** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:53 pm

Gooner wrote:
Amares wrote:
Gooner wrote:
He is discussing Kobe's shortcomings, and yet he is conveniently ignoring LeBron's epic failures.

Kobe's failures were much bigger and happened more often, besides them LeBron played on much higher level for many years. No place to make any comparisons here.

No, he just padded his stats better. He had 2 finals series where he shot under 40%, he had that famous choke against Dallas, his Miami lost to Spurs by the record margin in NBA finals history, he got swept twice, he got outplayed by KD in the clutch two years in a row, and he was afraid to shoot in game 7 of 2016 finals, but Irving closed the deal for his team.

He didn't just padded better but produced more impact, due to higher skills and basketball iq. He had multiple GOAT level series, sth Kobe never dreamed about, lbj had at least 5 PO runs better than Kobes best. Kobe for the half career wasn't even best player on his team, choked regularly from 90s to the end of his career, had terrible series and finals. And LeBron wasn't afraid to shot, in 2016 he proved why he's goat, had goat series against goat team and with goat clutch game. And clutch is not about shooting, but finding best way to win a game, sth Kobe never learned about, that's why he's all-time leader in missed clutch shots. No player ever lost more games than Kobe in clutch due to his moronic decisions. He's nowhere near to LeBron, face it.

ProspectPark · Post #112 » by **ProspectPark** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:00 pm

Imagine from the time you were a kid, there was a player who you idolized. You looked up to them. They were your hero. You even wore the #23 because of them.

And then even that person picks Kobe over you! :lol:

ProspectPark · Post #113 » by **ProspectPark** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:07 pm

Lebron talking about how much he loves MJ:

Watch on YouTube

Lebron after finding out MJ picks Kobe. Dude looks like he’s bout to cry like a lil b****

Watch on YouTube

Gooner · Post #114 » by **Gooner** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:14 pm

Amares wrote:
Gooner wrote:
Amares wrote:
Kobe's failures were much bigger and happened more often, besides them LeBron played on much higher level for many years. No place to make any comparisons here.

No, he just padded his stats better. He had 2 finals series where he shot under 40%, he had that famous choke against Dallas, his Miami lost to Spurs by the record margin in NBA finals history, he got swept twice, he got outplayed by KD in the clutch two years in a row, and he was afraid to shoot in game 7 of 2016 finals, but Irving closed the deal for his team.

He didn't just padded better but produced more impact, due to higher skills and basketball iq. He had multiple GOAT level series, sth Kobe never dreamed about, lbj had at least 5 PO runs better than Kobes best. Kobe for the half career wasn't even best player on his team, choked regularly from 90s to the end of his career, had terrible series and finals. And LeBron wasn't afraid to shot, in 2016 he proved why he's goat, had goat series against goat team and with goat clutch game. And clutch is not about shooting, but finding best way to win a game, sth Kobe never learned about, that's why he's all-time leader in missed clutch shots. No player ever lost more games than Kobe in clutch due to his moronic decisions. He's nowhere near to LeBron, face it.

What impact, leading his teams to 3-6 record in the finals? Impact is measured by winning. He ahd two super teams, there is no excuses. Kobe won 5 championships, I guess his moronic decisions worked for him.

Johnny Bball · Post #115 » by **Johnny Bball** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:17 pm

Gooner wrote:
7footMONSTER wrote:Kawhi picks Kobe over LeBron:

BuT yOu MuSt bE CrAzY iF yOu hAvE KoBe iN YoUr ToP 5

Watch on YouTube

Kawhi is crazy, did you hear his laugh? Lol. It woldn't surprise me if these LeBron fanboys reach for that explanation.

Don't be childish.

And they are talking about favorite players.

XxIronChainzxX · Post #116 » by **XxIronChainzxX** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:56 pm

moderndarwin wrote:He won 5 chips and averaged 28, 6, 5 on good overall percentages with extremely good defense.

Name players that have done more in terms of winning and stats combined?

I can think of very few

Yes. I can think of around 10-12. :wink:

XxIronChainzxX · Post #117 » by **XxIronChainzxX** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:04 pm

lakerz12 wrote:How many players have been the first or second best player on at least 3 Championship teams AND been the best player on at least 2 Championship teams?

Requires a minimum of 5 total rings.

Not LeBron. Not KD. Not Curry. Not Shaq. Not DWade. Not Hakeem. Not Dirk. Not KG. Not CP3. Etc.

Who else has done it?

In Kobe's era I think the only other person is Tim Duncan.

Before that, Michael Jordan. Remember, Scottie Pippen doesn't qualify because he was never the best player on 2 championship teams as Kobe was.

Besides MJ, you have to go back to Magic, Kareem, Russell.

So before you diss Kobe just remember he's in some VERY RARE territory when it comes to WINNING. In the past 30 years, only he, Tim Duncan, and Michael Jordan have won 5+ rings as the first and second best player on the teams.

Maybe that's why other players hold him in high regard. He just WON.

First off, what's this insane nonsense about Jordan. Not being the best player on all his teams?

Second, how many players played with a top 5 guy all time and were in the top 15 themselves? You're just underrating the absurdity of Kobe / Shaq as a combo.

It's like KD playing with prime LeBron. There's no human being alive that was better than Jordan. Not even Kareem / Magic counts.

The4thHorseman · Post #118 » by **The4thHorseman** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:11 pm

Gooner wrote:
Amares wrote:
Gooner wrote:
No, he just padded his stats better. He had 2 finals series where he shot under 40%, he had that famous choke against Dallas, his Miami lost to Spurs by the record margin in NBA finals history, he got swept twice, he got outplayed by KD in the clutch two years in a row, and he was afraid to shoot in game 7 of 2016 finals, but Irving closed the deal for his team.

He didn't just padded better but produced more impact, due to higher skills and basketball iq. He had multiple GOAT level series, sth Kobe never dreamed about, lbj had at least 5 PO runs better than Kobes best. Kobe for the half career wasn't even best player on his team, choked regularly from 90s to the end of his career, had terrible series and finals. And LeBron wasn't afraid to shot, in 2016 he proved why he's goat, had goat series against goat team and with goat clutch game. And clutch is not about shooting, but finding best way to win a game, sth Kobe never learned about, that's why he's all-time leader in missed clutch shots. No player ever lost more games than Kobe in clutch due to his moronic decisions. He's nowhere near to LeBron, face it.

What impact, leading his teams to 3-6 record in the finals? Impact is measured by winning. He ahd two super teams, there is no excuses. Kobe won 5 championships, I guess his moronic decisions worked for him.

Kobe lead "his teams" to 3 Finals appearances and went 2-1. Shaq led "his team" to 5 appearances and a 3-2 record in the Finals (including Orlando)

Why stress "LeBron's teams" but then turn around and say Kobe has 5 rings??? How could he have 5 rings when 3 of them were when it was "Shaq's teams?"

Gooner · Post #119 » by **Gooner** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:15 pm

The4thHorseman wrote:
Gooner wrote:
Amares wrote:
He didn't just padded better but produced more impact, due to higher skills and basketball iq. He had multiple GOAT level series, sth Kobe never dreamed about, lbj had at least 5 PO runs better than Kobes best. Kobe for the half career wasn't even best player on his team, choked regularly from 90s to the end of his career, had terrible series and finals. And LeBron wasn't afraid to shot, in 2016 he proved why he's goat, had goat series against goat team and with goat clutch game. And clutch is not about shooting, but finding best way to win a game, sth Kobe never learned about, that's why he's all-time leader in missed clutch shots. No player ever lost more games than Kobe in clutch due to his moronic decisions. He's nowhere near to LeBron, face it.

What impact, leading his teams to 3-6 record in the finals? Impact is measured by winning. He ahd two super teams, there is no excuses. Kobe won 5 championships, I guess his moronic decisions worked for him.

Kobe lead "his teams" to 3 Finals appearances and went 2-1. Shaq led "his team" to 5 appearances and a 3-2 record in the Finals (including Orlando)

Why stress "LeBron's teams" but then turn around and say Kobe has 5 rings??? How could he 5 have rings when 3 of them were when it was "Shaq's teams?"

So you are saying that Kobe wasted all those years playing with Shaq because he wasn't considered the best player? He won 3 rings, but that doesn't mean anythign apparently. Shaq needed Kobe, he was the most dominant player, but he didn't have an all round game. He needed Kobe's ability to handle the ball, shooting and closing.

beantownski · Post #120 » by **beantownski** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:22 pm

Gooner wrote:
The4thHorseman wrote:
Gooner wrote:
What impact, leading his teams to 3-6 record in the finals? Impact is measured by winning. He ahd two super teams, there is no excuses. Kobe won 5 championships, I guess his moronic decisions worked for him.

Kobe lead "his teams" to 3 Finals appearances and went 2-1. Shaq led "his team" to 5 appearances and a 3-2 record in the Finals (including Orlando)

Why stress "LeBron's teams" but then turn around and say Kobe has 5 rings??? How could he 5 have rings when 3 of them were when it was "Shaq's teams?"

So you are saying that Kobe wasted all those years playing with Shaq because he wasn't considered the best player? He won 3 rings, but that doesn't mean anythign apparently. Shaq needed Kobe, he was the most dominant player, but he didn't have an all round game. He needed Kobe's ability to handle the ball, shooting and closing.

shaq really needed him in the 2000 finals vs indy when kobe only played 4 full games (8 mins in another/also missed a game). when he did play he shot 37% from the field...