MVP Discussion [19/20] [part II] - voting opened

[AussieBuck]

You can't stop Jae Crowder, you can only hope to contain him. Darkhorse MVP candidate IMO.

[freethedevil]

Mods, can we close the polls. This is a waste of time.

The media narrative has already anointed Giannis the MVP this year.

If any other player puts up 38/whatever/whatever on league leading TS, they would be the unanimous MVP.
.

MVP isn't a scoring title. It's an overall award, and Gianni's overall impact is vastly higher than harden's by literally any measure and he's doing that on a team playing 70 win basketball.

Ironically, it would be a media narrative to act like Harden's season is nearly as good because of ppg+ts

[durvasa]

Mods, can we close the polls. This is a waste of time.

The media narrative has already anointed Giannis the MVP this year.

If any other player puts up 38/whatever/whatever on league leading TS, they would be the unanimous MVP.
.

MVP isn't a scoring title. It's an overall award, and Gianni's overall impact is vastly higher than harden's by literally any measure and he's doing that on a team playing 70 win basketball.

Ironically, it would be a media narrative to act like Harden's season is nearly as good because of ppg+ts

“Vastly higher than harden’s by literally any measure”.

WS/48: Giannis .308, Harden .312
PER: Giannis 33.6, Harden 32.5
BPM: Giannis 12.7 Harden 11.3
PIPM: Giannis 8.4 Harden 7.4
RPM: Giannis 7.1 Harden 7.3
RAPTOR: Giannis 9.5 Harden 12.4

And that’s by per-minute measures. The more you play, the more “impact” you have on your team. There’s really no way around that fact.

Giannis is obviously a superb player and deserving MVP candidate, possibly the most impactful player on a per possession basis, but the separation isn’t what you are making it out to be. The Bucks, to their credit, get more from their other players than the Rockets do — and that explains the difference in record more so than the per-possession separation between Giannis and Harden (assuming it is there).

[ken6199]

The poll results are just opinions from realgm posters, and by no means it should be taken as the be-all end-all measuring stick. If you are not happy with it or think your guy is getting the short end of the stick because of the popularity factor, just ignore it (or take it as a confirmation of your popularity theory if you really want to go that way).

At the end of the season, we'll see how accurate these poll results are but at the meantime that's the best we can do. My advice is don't wow everytime someone just had a big game. "lolll this guy had xx/xx/xx how come he is still so far behind". Look at what they've done so far this season.

[Dupp]

You can't stop Jae Crowder, you can only hope to contain him. Darkhorse MVP candidate IMO.

Kawhi just got spanked by crowder.

[AussieBuck]

Posted in another thread:

The Bucks have a relative defensive rating of -7.6. This is better than all but one Spurs team ever, every Pistons team ever, every Bulls team ever, all but 2 Knicks teams ever and all but one post Russell Boston teams.

Giannis is probably better on D than he is on offense. He's doing stuff that's only superficially included in boxscore metrics. He's better than the numbers and that's why he's MVP.

[MrPerfect1]

The Bucks bench is very deep, that's why they outscore opponents benches when Giannis sits. But without Giannis they won't win much against elite teams. And they won't win everything against the < .500 teams, like they do now. That makes it a 45 win team max. And 0 all stars.

Without Giannis they would likely be a 38 or so win team or so. There is a vast difference in playing with little pressure up by 20 vs having to play every night without even 1 All Star.

I can't fathom how people can reconcile the following. There is a massive chasm Defensively between Giannis and Harden. Any Offensive gap is far, far, far narrower than the Defensive Chasm.

(I understand that for some people that Giannis would be "more valuable" if he played more minutes in blowouts so the Bucks could win by 25 instead of 15.
Or, a truly valuable player would rest on defense so that they could keep playing in close games to inflate their Offensive numbers)

The difference on offense is titanic, incomparable.

The difference on defense is minor. Harden is a very elite defender. If you can't see that you are either not watching basketball or not looking at the advanced stats.

Please stop with the misleading narrative. MVP these days have sadly become the MFP, Medias Favorite Player.

#Disgace

Lol, I can only assume you are meming if you think there is a massive difference offensively between them or more hilariously that the difference on defense is only minor.

Well played. Your meme attempt of the Harden argument was very funny.

[Strepbacter]

He was a slight negative from 17-19.

His 2017-2019 DRAPM was at -1.08. That ranked #661 in the league.

"Slight" negative.

Good one.

[Strepbacter]

Giannis isn’t anchoring anything.

Giannis could miss the season and they’d win 60 games.

This is just laughable.

[Magic Giannison]

Like ive said, if Giannis makes his shooting a good habit like he seems to do then give up, it doesn't matter who is his opponent for the trophy.

His defense is also on absurd levels

[blazza18]

The mental gymnastics the anti Giannis dudes post are very funny.

Harden's been phenomenal scoring again. When you figure out why it's not Giannis' fault people aren't buying into his MVP credentials as much as you think they should you'll be better for it.

[freethedevil]

Mods, can we close the polls. This is a waste of time.

The media narrative has already anointed Giannis the MVP this year.

If any other player puts up 38/whatever/whatever on league leading TS, they would be the unanimous MVP.
.

MVP isn't a scoring title. It's an overall award, and Gianni's overall impact is vastly higher than harden's by literally any measure and he's doing that on a team playing 70 win basketball.

Ironically, it would be a media narrative to act like Harden's season is nearly as good because of ppg+ts

“Vastly higher than harden’s by literally any measure”.

WS/48: Giannis .308, Harden .312
PER: Giannis 33.6, Harden 32.5
BPM: Giannis 12.7 Harden 11.3
PIPM: Giannis 8.4 Harden 7.4
RPM: Giannis 7.1 Harden 7.3
RAPTOR: Giannis 9.5 Harden 12.4

Interesting, giannis had a sizable lead in ws/48 and rpm last time i checked. Fair enough there.

And that’s by per-minute measures. The more you play, the more “impact” you have on your team. There’s really no way around that fact.

Well it comes down to whether you value goodness or team value.

Giannis is obviously a superb player and deserving MVP candidate, possibly the most impactful player on a per possession basis, but the separation isn’t what you are making it out to be. The Bucks, to their credit, get more from their other players than the Rockets do — and that explains the difference in record more so than the per-possession separation between Giannis and Harden (assuming it is there).

Fair, fair.

[inquisitive]

If Harden keeps it up, he'll win DPOY....forget the scoring nonsense

[LikeABosh]

[mediocrityrules]

That was before yesterday's game. It's now 30.4 points on 30.9 mins per game.

[DutchManDanFan]

If Bucks win 70 (or almost), wouldn’t it be strange if the MVP is not on this team?

It’s like the finals MVP not on the winning team.

[Sidthekid87]

This **** is only playing 30 minutes a night??? Man, it's gonna be tough to take down a fresh freak in 7 games come playoff time.

[limbo]

'20 Giannis (per 100):

45.1 PTS (62%TS)
19.0 TRB (20.4 REB%)
8.2 AST (32.3 AST%)
1.8 STL
1.7 BLK
5.2 TO

WS/48: .313
OBPM: 8.0
DBPM: 4.6
ORtg: 118
DRtg: 96

'00 Shaq (per 100):

38.1 pts (58%TS)
17.5 TRB (18.3 REB%)
4.9 AST (19.3 AST%)
0.6 STL
3.9 BLK
3.6 TO

WS/48: .283
OBPM: 6.2
DBPM: 3.5
ORtg: 115
DRtg: 95

[JN61]

Didn't know Westbrook was that high on such lists. That was truly historic what he did.

[ShotCreator]

He was a slight negative from 17-19.

His 2017-2019 DRAPM was at -1.08. That ranked #661 in the league.

"Slight" negative.

Good one.

In the 17-19 sample he was a -1.1.

He’s been so good this year from 18-20 he’s gotten it down to -.4.

If he was more than a slight negative then he is more than a clear positive now.