What has Jordan achieved without Pippen?

[Patches Perry]

As a person who thinks LeBron rightfully has earned his spot next to Jordan and a couple others as 1st tier GOAT, I sometimes throw out the "What has Jordan done without Pippen?" in response to dumb arguments made from Jordan supporters. That said, it's a bad argument only to be used against similar bad faith arguments against LeBron.

Jordan was a dominant force prior to Pippen and clearly did not need Pippen specifically in order to win championships, but like anyone else, needed a sufficient team built around him. Pippen was a superstar in his own right and part of that process. Their individual greatness exists independent of the other.

[Durant Durant]

you still talking about him. /GOAT

[twyzted]

Pippen was the backbone of their defense and main facilitator/playcaller on offense. You could probably win a similar number of rings if you replaced him with someone like Reggie Miller, but that speaks more to how damn stacked the Bulls were considering their first, second, third, and fourth options were always better than their opponents respective first, second, third and fourth options. They had guys who were overqualified for the roles they played, not overmatched guys like Tyler Herro or something

Really

90/91
Magic 21 ppg 8 rpg 13 apg
Worthy 21 ppg 4 rpg 4 apg
Perkins 18 ppg 8 rpg
Scott 13 ppg
Divac 13 ppg 7 rpg
Vs
Pippen 21 ppg 9 rpg 7 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Grant 15 ppg 8 rpg 2 apg 2 spg 1bpg
Paxson 13 ppg 2 rpg 3 apg 1 spg 0 bpg

91/92
Drexler 26 ppg 7 rpg 7 apg
Porter 21 ppg 5 rpg 7 apg
Kersey 16 ppg 8 rpg 4 apg
Duckworth 12 ppg 6 rpg
Ainge, cliff robinson, buck williams 10 ppg
Vs
Pippen 20 ppg 8 apg 8 rpg 2 spg 1 bpg
Grant 9 ppg 8 rpg 4 apg 1 spg 2 bpg
Paxson 10 ppg 1 rpg 3 apg 1 spg

92/93
Barkley 27 ppg 14 rpg 4 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Kevin johnson 18 ppg 3 rpg 8 apg
Majerle 15 ppg 6 rpg 4 apg 1 spg 1 bpg
Richard dumas 11 ppg
Vs
Pippen 21 ppg 9 rpg 8 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Bj 14 ppg 2 rpg 5 apg 1 spg
Grant 11 ppg 10 rpg 2 apg 2 spg 2 bpg
Last 2 games grant scored 2 point combined with 7 rpg

95/96
Kemp 21 ppg 10 rpg 2 apg 1 spg 2 bpg
Payton 21 ppg 5 rpg 7 apg 2 spg
Schrempf 16 ppg 5 rpg 3 apg
Perkins 12 ppg 4 rpg 2 apg
Hawkins 12 ppg 3 rpg 3 apg
Vs
Pippen 16 ppg 7 rpg 5 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Kukoc 13 ppg 5 rpg 4 apg 1 spg
Longley 12 ppg 4 rpg 2 apg 2 bpg
Rodman 8 ppg 15 rpg 3 apg

96/97
Malone 26 ppg 11 rpg 3 apg 1 spg&bpg
Stockton 16 ppg 4 rpg 10 apg 2 spg
Hornacek 14 ppg 4 rpg 4 apg
Russell 12 ppg 5 rpg
Vs
Pippen 20 ppg 8 rpg 4 apg 2 spg 2 bpg
Kukoc 8 ppg 3 rpg 3 apg
Bison dele 7 ppg
Rodman 2 ppg 8 rpg

97/98
Malone 26 ppg 11 rpg
Stockton 11 ppg 8 apg
Hornacek and russel 11 ppg
Vs
Pippen 16 ppg 7 rpg 5 apg 2 spg 1 bpg
Kukoc 15 ppg 5 rpg 3 apg
Rodman 3 ppg 8 rpg
Harper 5 ppg
Kerr 4 ppg

So no 3rd 4th or 5 th bulls player never out played 3rd 4th or 5th best bulls player except for 98.
Payton out played pippen in 96.
In 92 jordan, drexler, pippen, porter, kersey, duckworth
Jordan for example lead the bulls in assists in 91&97

Sorry but herro is outplaying every one of bulls players out side of pippen and 96 rodman.
Also im not seeing those overqualified role players you are talking about good defenders yes most of them

"Good defenders yes most of them" as if that's not an entire half of the game and where guys like Pip, Grant, and Rodman made their hay . Also, Worthy and Scott were injured lol. Herro is literally such a defensive liability that Miami has to tilt their entire scheme into ultra hard hedging 25 feet from the basket just to protect him enough so he can stay in the game. Stop it. Watch the games

Kerr, paxson, bj, kukoc were not great defenders but sure grant pippen and rodman were great defenders.
Yes worthy and scott missed 1 game, game 5 when the score was 3-1 for the bulls.
I mean green missed 1 game in 16 and curry was injured
"So lebron and kyrie and love coming back against klay thompson, with green missing most of the finals and curry injured" is something to start using to dimish 16 comeback. Like this nonsense that scott and worthy were injured
Pippen was injured in 98 so..........

Yes im sure Jordan really was lucky having his 3rd guy score 8 ppg over a finals serie.
Or in 98 when kerr chipped in with 3 ppg.
Over qualified role players my ***


The bulls figured out hey give pippen and jordan good defenders and we will win.
Lebron needs what again a guy avg 25+ ppg.
Defenders because he is not defending butler, kawhis of the world he is busy guarding jae crowder.
Shooters.

Edit: also the only thing you could comeback with was this.

[Infinite Llamas]

Surround Jordan with Wade and Bosh and he easily wins six titles, something Lebron clearly failed to do.

[Infinite Llamas]

So you could say what has Lebron really accomplished without Wade, Bosh, AD and Kyrie.

[Johnny Bball]

A bunch of first round exits...and let's not forget at Age 33 he needed Dennis Rodman who was another Freak of Nature and HOFer to win and let's not forget his stint with the Wizards which didn't even made the playoffs.

With that said basing on the narrative here.. Can we compare MJ to AD since they basically didn't achieve anything before being paired with another all time great?

Or is Jordan immune from that kind of narrative?

You've done it. You've convinced everyone that Jordan isn't great anymore. Congrats on achieving your goal with this wonderful in depth thread where nobody else had accomplished it starting similar but awful threads every week for 10 years now.

[jerok]

To answer your absurdly reductionist question: zero times in three seasons.

To provide a bit more context to the answer to that absurdly reductionist question:

23 year-old Jordan in his third season put 35.7/7.0/6.0/2.0/2.3 on 40/40/90 against a team that lost in 6 in the NBA Finals.

22 year-old Jordan in his second season put 43.7/6.3/5.7/2.3/1.3 on 51/100/87 against a team that coasted to 67 wins and won the NBA championship.

21 year-old Jordan in his rookie season put 29.3/5.8/8.5/2.8/1.0 on 44/13/83 against the first or second-ranked defense in the league while being guarded primarily by a player who has just won back-to-back DPoY's.

The ten games you've chosen to tear Jordan down only do the opposite: they actually served as a teeny tiny piece of the immense body of work supporting his case as Greatest of All-Time. Thanks for calling everyone's attention to those games!

Cool story, but MJ still took the L.

This is the same thing LeBron gets criticized for. when he puts up monster numbers and lose in the finals he gets villified.

But MJ putting up monster numbers and getting swept in the first round is glorified.

OP had valid points and they're just simple facts.
MJ did nothing without Pip.
Pip made it past first round at least without MJ.

Feel bad for Pippen. Since everyone seem to forget how good he is.
MJ was playing with top 5 player in the game. And at any given game bulls had the 2 best players on the court or at least 2 of the 3 best players. But everyone always make it seem like MJ took gardeners and plumbers to finals.

At what point was Scottie Pippen ever a top 5 player in the league?

MJ, Magic, Barkley, D-Rob, Shaq, Ewing, Hakeem, Malone... this is just naming a few. Pippen had an argument for top 10-15 for sure. But he was never top 5. No need to prop him up to make an argument.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/dennis-rodman-considered-scottie-pippen-best-player-in-the-world-during-michael-jordans-baseball-hiatus/

I think Dennis Rodman point of view is greater than any of us here.

[spikeslovechild]

So it was Pippen all along not Jordan? There must be some sort of dumb take machine that idiot Lebron stans use to come up with this stuff

[jerok]

To answer your absurdly reductionist question: zero times in three seasons.

To provide a bit more context to the answer to that absurdly reductionist question:

23 year-old Jordan in his third season put 35.7/7.0/6.0/2.0/2.3 on 40/40/90 against a team that lost in 6 in the NBA Finals.

22 year-old Jordan in his second season put 43.7/6.3/5.7/2.3/1.3 on 51/100/87 against a team that coasted to 67 wins and won the NBA championship.

21 year-old Jordan in his rookie season put 29.3/5.8/8.5/2.8/1.0 on 44/13/83 against the first or second-ranked defense in the league while being guarded primarily by a player who has just won back-to-back DPoY's.

The ten games you've chosen to tear Jordan down only do the opposite: they actually served as a teeny tiny piece of the immense body of work supporting his case as Greatest of All-Time. Thanks for calling everyone's attention to those games!

Cool story, but MJ still took the L.

This is the same thing LeBron gets criticized for. when he puts up monster numbers and lose in the finals he gets villified.

But MJ putting up monster numbers and getting swept in the first round is glorified.

OP had valid points and they're just simple facts.
MJ did nothing without Pip.
Pip made it past first round at least without MJ.

Feel bad for Pippen. Since everyone seem to forget how good he is.
MJ was playing with top 5 player in the game. And at any given game bulls had the 2 best players on the court or at least 2 of the 3 best players. But everyone always make it seem like MJ took gardeners and plumbers to finals.

when has lebron james ever put up monster numbers without good teammates? lebron isn't even close to mj, wtf are you talking about? lebron james in his prime was reduced to chucking it up like allen iverson. don't ever mention him in the comparison with jordan, they are NOT on the same level

LOL, this guy, I guess LeBron entered the league in 2010-2011. He did absolutely nothing before that.
I consider MJ the goat. But I'm also a fan of LeBron. LeBron haters are hilarious cause they are given facts about MJ and completely ignore it and continue to slander LeBron.
LeBron and Jordan are on the same Level, Jordan 1a, LeBron 1b. Mount Rushmore Baby.

[trueballer7]

Some playoff series from Scottie - if he were LeBron's teammate, you'd probably be talking about how terrible of a player he was offensively and how LeBron had no help:

13.7pts, 2.3assts, 4tos, 80ortg, 49%TS
18.3pts, 5.5assts, 3.2tos, 102ortg, 45%TS
15.7pts, 4.8assts, 2.8tos, 104ortg, 50%TS
16.6pts, 5.3assts, 3tos, 102ortg, 46%TS
16.7pts, 3assts, 3tos, 102ortg, 50%TS
15.7pts, 5.3assts, 1.9tos, 105ortg, 42%TS
15.6pts, 5.2assts, 2.2tos, 100ortg, 41%TS
10pts, 2.4assts, 2.6tos, 96ortg, 49%TS
9.4pts, 2.4assts, 2.6tos, 85ortg, 49%TS
9.7pts, 3assts, 1.5tos, 94ortg, 45%TS
16.6pts, 3.7assts, 3tos, 100ortg, 52%TS
21.2pts, 7.7assts, 4.3tos, 97ortg, 46%TS (against Suns in 93)

Pippen's career is littered with series in which he struggled to score or even be an adequate playmaker. I'm not saying this to degrade him, he's a top 40 player all time and probably the best perimeter defender ever - but he wasn't some perfect fit to Jordan that people make him out to be (i.e., there are other players Jordan could have won championships with).

Great. This stuff is all relative though.

Now post the stat lines of the opposing teams 2nd best players in each of those series. Guarantee Pippen dwarfs them in production.

Alright.All the above, in chronological order.
1) 1988 Bulls vs Cavs = 3-2
Chicago Bulls: Michael Jordan 45.2 pts, 4.8 asts, 4TOs, 126ortg, 632%TS,
Cleveland Cavaliers : Mark Price 21 pts, 7.6 asts, 2 TOs, 137ortg, 673% TS
Ron Harper 17.8 pts, 3.8 asts, 2.4 TOs, 100ortg, 507%TS
Larry Nance 16.8pts, 3.6 asts, 7.2 TRBs, 3 TOs, 111ortg, 584 TS
Brad Daugherty 15.8 pts, 3.2 asts, 9.4 TRBs, 3.5 TOs, 98 ortg, 515%TS
Mike Sanders 12.8 pts, 5 TRBs, 104 ortg, 567%TS
Chicago Bulls : Charles Oakley 10.8 pts, 13 TRBs, 3,6 asts, 123ortg, 506% TS,
Scottie Pippen 10pts, 2.4assts, 2.6tos, 96ortg, 49%TS

2)1988 Bulls vs Pistons =1-4
Chicago Bulls : Michael Jordan 27.4pts, 8.8 TRBs, 4.6asts, 3.5 TOs, 106 ortg, 549%TS,
Detroit Pistons : I. Thomas 20.4 pts, 10,5 asts, 5.5 TOs, 107 ortg, 496% TS
A. Dantley 18.6 pts, 107 org, 59% TS
B. Laimbeer 15.8 pts, 12.8 TRBs, 109 ortg, 52% TS
Chicago Bulls : H. Grant 11.4pts, 5.6 TRBs, 117ortg, 59%TS
Detroit Pistons : J. Dumars 11.2pts, 4.6asts, 115ortg, 53%TS
V. Johnson 11.2 pts, 105 ortg, 47%TS
Chicago Bulls : Charles Oakley 9,4 pts, 12.4 TRBS, 2.8asts, 92ortg, 49% TS
Scottie Pippen 9.4 pts, 5.2 TRBs, 2.4 asts, 3.3 TOs, 85ortg, 49%TS

3) 1989 Bulls vs Cavs =4-3
Chicago Bulls : Michael Jordan 39.8 pts, 8.2asts, 3stl, 4 TOs, 121ortg, 60%TS
Cleveland Cavaliers : Ron Harper 19.6pts, 6.4pts, 102ortg, 51%TS
L. Nance 19.4pts, 7.8TRBs 119ortg, 58%TS
M. Price 16 pts, 5.5asts 91 ortg, 50%TS
Chicago Bulls : Scottie Pippen 15pts, 4asts, 2,8 TOs, 102ortg, 51%TS

4) 1989 Bulls vs Knicks = 4-2
Chicago Bulls : Michael Jordan 35.7pts, 9.5TRBs, 8.3 asts, 2.5stls, 4TOs, 129 ortg, 65%TS
NY Knicks : P Ewing 21.3 pts, 10 TRBs, 116ortg, 55%TS
Johnny Newman 15.5pts, 109 ortg, 56%TS
Chicago Bulls : Scottie Pippen 14.8pts, 4.8 asts, 3TOs, 117ortg, 67%TS

5) 1989 Bulls vs Pistons = 2-4
Chicago Bulls : Michael Jordan 29.7 pts, 6.5asts, 3.6TOs, 112ortg, 56%TS
Detroit Pistons : I. Thomas 20.7pts, 7.8asts, 3.2TOs, 102ortg, 46%TS
M. Aguirre 13.7pts, 120ortg, 60%TS
V. Johnson 13.3pts, 115ortg, 49%TS
J. Dumars 13pts, 4.2asts, 100ortg, 46%
Chicago Bulls : C. Hodges 12pts, 3asts 103ortg, 58%TS
B. Cartwright 10.5pts, 103ortg, 49%TS
S. Pippen 9.7pts, 3asts, 94ortg, 45%TS

6) 1990 Bulls vs Pistons = 3-4
Chicago Bulls : Michael Jordan 32.1pts, 7.1TRbs, 6.3asts, 2,8Tos, 117ortg, 57%TS
Detroit Pistons : Joe Dumars 20pts, 3.6asts, 113ortg, 58%TS
I. Thomas 17.6pts, 8.6asts, 108ortg, 52%TS
Chicago Bulls: Scottie Pippen 16.6pts, 3.7asts, 3Tos, 101ortg, 52%TS

7) 1992 Bulls vs Knicks = 3-4
Chicago Bulls : Michael Jordan 31.3 pts 107ortg, 54%TS
N.Y. Knicks : P. Ewing 22.1pts, 109ortg, 52%TS
Xavier McDaniel 18.6pts, 106ortg, 52%TS
Chicago Bulls : Scottie Pippen 16pts, 106 ortg, 49%TS

8) 1993 Bulls vs Hawks = 3-0
Chicago Bulls : Michael Jordan 34.3pts, 131 ortg, 60%TS
Atlanta Hawks : Dominique Wilkins (match up with the defensive powerhouse Pippen) 30pts, 109ortg, 51%TS
Kevin Willis 16.7 pts, 102ortg, 49%TS
Chicago Bulls : Scottie Pippen 15.3pts, 100ortg, 46%TS

9)1995 Bulls vs Charlotte = 3-1
Chicago Bulls : Michael Jordan 32.3 pts, 115ortg, 59%TS
Charlotte Hornets : Alonzo Mourning 22pts, 114 ortg, 58%TS
Larry Johnson 20.8 pts, 119ortg, 55%TS
Chicago Bulls : Tony Kukoc 17.3 pts, 119ortg, 60%TS
Scottie Pippen 16pts, 122ortg, 60%TS

10) 1996 Bulls vs Knicks =4-1
Chicago Bulls : Michael Jordan 36pts, 1210rtg, 53% TS
Knicks: Pat Ewing 23.4 97ortg, 53%TS
Bulls: Scottie Pippen 15.6pts, 100rtg, 41%TS
Knicks: John Starks 13.8pts, 98ortg, 53%TS
11) 1996 Bulls vs Magic = 4-0
Chicago Bulls : Michael Jordan 29.5pts, 131ortg, 63%TS
Orlando Magic : Shaquille O'Neal 27pts, 108ortg, 60%TS
Penny Hardaway 25.5pts, 108ortg, 55%TS
Chicago Bulls : Scottie Pippen 18.5 pts, 120ortg, 51%TS


12) 1996 Bulls vs Sonics (Finals) =4-2
Chicago Bulls : Michael Jordan 27.3pts 116ortg, 54%TS
Seattle Supersonics : Shawn Kemp 23.3 pts, 117ortg, 65%TS
Gary Payton 18pts, 7asts, 114ortg, 53%TS
Detlef Schrempf 16.3pts, 107ortg, 54%TS
Chicago Bulls : Scottie Pippen 15.7pts, 106ortg, 43%TS

13) 1997 Bulls vs Bullets = 3-0
Chicago Bulls: Michael Jordan 37.3pts, 5.3asts, 132 ortg, 62%TS
Washington Bullets : Rod Strickland 19.7pts, 8asts, 107ortg, 49%TS
Juwan Howard 18.7pts, 123 ortg, 54%TS
Tracy Murray 18.3 pts, 163ortg, 73%TS
Chicago Bulls : Scottie Pippen 16.7pts, 106ortg, 49,8%TS
Washington Bullets : Chris Webber 15.7pts, 101 ortg, 70%TS

14) 1998 Bulls vs Pacers =4-3
Chicago Bulls : Michael Jordan 31.7pts, 122ortg, 56%TS
Indiana Pacers : Reggie Miller 17.4pts, 1118ortg, 59%TS
Chicago Bulls : Scottie Pippen 16.6pts, 102ortg, 46%TS
Indiana Pacers : Rik Smits 16.3pts, 119ortg, 63%TS

[bronxknicksfan1]

Cool story, but MJ still took the L.

This is the same thing LeBron gets criticized for. when he puts up monster numbers and lose in the finals he gets villified.

But MJ putting up monster numbers and getting swept in the first round is glorified.

OP had valid points and they're just simple facts.
MJ did nothing without Pip.
Pip made it past first round at least without MJ.

Feel bad for Pippen. Since everyone seem to forget how good he is.
MJ was playing with top 5 player in the game. And at any given game bulls had the 2 best players on the court or at least 2 of the 3 best players. But everyone always make it seem like MJ took gardeners and plumbers to finals.

At what point was Scottie Pippen ever a top 5 player in the league?

MJ, Magic, Barkley, D-Rob, Shaq, Ewing, Hakeem, Malone... this is just naming a few. Pippen had an argument for top 10-15 for sure. But he was never top 5. No need to prop him up to make an argument.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/dennis-rodman-considered-scottie-pippen-best-player-in-the-world-during-michael-jordans-baseball-hiatus/

I think Dennis Rodman point of view is greater than any of us here.

Out of the players I mentioned, which ones was he better than

[100proof]

Your comparison is more on point if the question posed was what has Pippen achieved without Jordan. Davis is a Pippen, not a Jordan.

Pippen never missed the playoffs once in his career, almost reached the ECF without MJ & also made a conference finals appearance without Jordan too

So Pippen made the second round of the playoffs.


Pippen HOF for certain
as is Rodman
Kukoc
Kerr?
Grant?
Gilmore

For Lebron:
Wade
Bosh
Davis
Kyrie
Love
Shaq
Dwight Howard
Rajon Rondo
Ray Allen

[The_Hater]

Your comparison is more on point if the question posed was what has Pippen achieved without Jordan. Davis is a Pippen, not a Jordan.

Pippen never missed the playoffs once in his career, almost reached the ECF without MJ & also made a conference finals appearance without Jordan too

So Pippen made the second round of the playoffs.


Pippen HOF for certain
as is Rodman
Kukoc
Kerr?
Grant?
Gilmore

For Lebron:
Wade
Bosh
Davis
Kyrie
Love
Shaq
Dwight Howard
Rajon Rondo
Ray Allen

It’s easy to just look at the names but how good each of these players were while they were teammates matters. Bron played with Howard, Shaq, Allen and Rondo while they were nothing more than role players. And Love won’t be a hall of famer.

He played the first 7 years of his career in Cleveland with Ilgauskas, Mo Williams and Larry Hughes as his best teammates. Not much of surprise they were a lottery team 4 straight years after he left. When he left Cleveland the 2nd time, they went from NBA finals to deep in the lottery as well. That doesn’t say a lot for the teams surrounding him.

Jordan didn’t have a long list of great teammates but he had continuity and less seasons/teams. Pippen and Rodman were HOF and Grant should be getting more consideration then he does. Kukoc is in, but that’s more of an international honor. But when he left the Bulls for baseball they were still a 50 win team without him. That does indicate that he had very good teammates.

[KMartsCrew]

Cool story, but MJ still took the L.

This is the same thing LeBron gets criticized for. when he puts up monster numbers and lose in the finals he gets villified.

But MJ putting up monster numbers and getting swept in the first round is glorified.

OP had valid points and they're just simple facts.
MJ did nothing without Pip.
Pip made it past first round at least without MJ.

Feel bad for Pippen. Since everyone seem to forget how good he is.
MJ was playing with top 5 player in the game. And at any given game bulls had the 2 best players on the court or at least 2 of the 3 best players. But everyone always make it seem like MJ took gardeners and plumbers to finals.

At what point was Scottie Pippen ever a top 5 player in the league?

MJ, Magic, Barkley, D-Rob, Shaq, Ewing, Hakeem, Malone... this is just naming a few. Pippen had an argument for top 10-15 for sure. But he was never top 5. No need to prop him up to make an argument.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/dennis-rodman-considered-scottie-pippen-best-player-in-the-world-during-michael-jordans-baseball-hiatus/

I think Dennis Rodman point of view is greater than any of us here.

O.K. then.

https://www.espn.com/chicago/nba/story/_/id/9353089/dennis-rodman-says-lebron-james-average-played-90s
https://www.essentiallysports.com/nba-news-hes-so-fuing-easy-to-play-hes-just-big-dennis-rodman-on-lebron-james-game/

[stormi]

Without Pippen he's a Corey Brewer clone who put up all time great numbers on the slot machines in Vegas

[Shanghai Kid]

MJ in the 2nd 3-peat literally had a playoff run where only one other player on the team averaged double figures. The 'superteam' narrative is overblown. There is no other scenario where we use great defensive roleplayers as basis for some kind of superteam. It was MJ, Pippen, and solid roleplayers. Dennis Rodman was NOT a star player in that 2nd 3-peat. In the 97 playoffs for example, Rodman averaged 4ppg/8 rpg in 28 minutes per game. In the 98 playoffs, 4 ppg/11 rpg. And there is nothing in his advanced stats during this time that suggests he was making a huge on court impact.

Pippen was giving essentially 15-19ppg in the 2nd 3peat, and then you had a bunch of roleplayers. MJ was carrying one of the biggest offensive loads ever.

[jerok]

At what point was Scottie Pippen ever a top 5 player in the league?

MJ, Magic, Barkley, D-Rob, Shaq, Ewing, Hakeem, Malone... this is just naming a few. Pippen had an argument for top 10-15 for sure. But he was never top 5. No need to prop him up to make an argument.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/dennis-rodman-considered-scottie-pippen-best-player-in-the-world-during-michael-jordans-baseball-hiatus/

I think Dennis Rodman point of view is greater than any of us here.

Out of the players I mentioned, which ones was he better than

post 91 Magic For sure he aint 80s Magic.
Shaq was a Pup. He wasn't Lakers Shaq.

But I would Put Pippen in the same Breath as those guys.
When MJ Left, he was absolutely top 5 player in the league.
But for shi and giggles, let's say you're right and go with your top 10. If you want Top 15, but I bet you can't name 10 players or 15 players better than Pip during those times.

I thought MJ did it all by himself?
But he had top 10 Player with him the whole Ride? Well I'll be damned.

[Jkam31]

This board is becoming almost as bad as InsideHoops with these low IQ posts that reek of insecurity and desperation to make Lebron seem better than Jordan.

Ya if mods don’t take control of the lebron clowns this site will start losing “ratings” like the nba

[ssang]

Pippen was the backbone of their defense and main facilitator/playcaller on offense. You could probably win a similar number of rings if you replaced him with someone like Reggie Miller, but that speaks more to how damn stacked the Bulls were considering their first, second, third, and fourth options were always better than their opponents respective first, second, third and fourth options. They had guys who were overqualified for the roles they played, not overmatched guys like Tyler Herro or something

You have no idea what you are talking about. Let me ask you a question. How old are you?

The biggest difference between the Chicago Bulls and everyone else back then, and the painfully obvious and unmistakably primary reason for said Chicago Bulls overwhelming success was, that to any and all within the NBA, as well as to any and all objective fans and casual viewers alike — the Chicago Bulls best player was the greatest, most spectacular, phenomenally talented basketball player anyone had ever feasted their eyes upon...and was a metric f**k-ton better than their opponents’ respective first, and second, and third, and fourth options.

Ok buddy. They won 54 games when MJ left and also had the best coach in the league the entire time. They were stacked. You're cursing me out because you're triggered, and you're triggered because you know I hit a sore spot. MJ had the most stacked team and just cuz he was better than guys 2,3, and 4 it doesn't change the fact that he also somehow had the best supporting cast in the league too.

Re-read what I wrote and point out to me where I "cursed you out", because I'm having a difficult time finding it.

All I did was ask you your age (which you failed to answer by the way) and point out that, with all due respect, objectively speaking, you don't have the faintest clue as to what you're talking about. Now, I understand that you think you do, but the reality is you do not. Not when it comes to this. Not by a long shot.

Please recognize that this by no means makes you a bad person, but rather, just an ill-advised, entirely incorrect one, is all. There is no mutual exclusivity there, nor did I state or even so much as insinuate as such. You can be a perfectly wonderful person and at the same time not have one iota of an idea as to what you speak of. It's quite common actually.

Because, judging from that nonsense take of yours, it is abundantly clear that, well, it's not so much of a "take" as it is a wholly uninformed, misguided, and unequivocally foolish opinion; one that someone could only possibly genuinely harbor if they were not of age yet or perhaps even alive for even a smidgen of that time period when Mike the Bulls were doing their thing.

In other words, that revisionist history insistence of yours that the Chicago Bulls dynasty of the 1990's and the six titles they boasted were somehow more so a product of some overwhelming stacked talent disparity edge they possessed from the #2 guy on down the roster in comparison to their counterparts from all opposing teams around the league from their #2 guy's on down (a notion in and of itself that is laughable on it's face. Absolutely ridiculous), and less so from the Bulls happening to be in possession of the most dominant, incredible, sensational, dedicated, insatiably driven, cold-blooded, bad-ass, mega superstar number #1 guy in the history of basketball (and I'd argue in the history of North American team sports; Babe f**kin' Ruth included).....it is equally as above and beyond far away from the truth as it is preposterous to even suggest, let alone actually flat-out believe was the case; and something that only someone who didn't live it, hasn't watched it, doesn't understand it, doesn't care to understand it, and has no basis for an informed opinion on the matter, could ever possibly utter while keeping a straight face or without lying through their teeth.

Otherwise, you're spot-on.

[bronxknicksfan1]

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/dennis-rodman-considered-scottie-pippen-best-player-in-the-world-during-michael-jordans-baseball-hiatus/

I think Dennis Rodman point of view is greater than any of us here.

Out of the players I mentioned, which ones was he better than

post 91 Magic For sure he aint 80s Magic.
Shaq was a Pup. He wasn't Lakers Shaq.

But I would Put Pippen in the same Breath as those guys.
When MJ Left, he was absolutely top 5 player in the league.
But for shi and giggles, let's say you're right and go with your top 10. If you want Top 15, but I bet you can't name 10 players or 15 players better than Pip during those times.

I thought MJ did it all by himself?
But he had top 10 Player with him the whole Ride? Well I'll be damned.

Moving the goal post from MJ was playing with a top 5 player to Scottie was a top 5 player when MJ retired?

By the time MJ retired the first time, Shaq was already better than Pippen. He led the Magic to a Finals run during that time.

So I’ll ask again, who are the 5 players on that list that Pippen is better than? He’s not better than Shaq, D-Rob, Barkley, Malone, Hakeem or Ewing. Could even throw in Penny, Gary Payton and Grant Hill as comparable players in certain years.