Who's the G.O.A.T. ?

[RB34]

MJ stans are legit cultish.

And LeBron fans are exactly the same.

That’s what’s wrong with people these days, completely unwilling and unable to see both sides of the coin.

[Metallikid]

MJ stans are legit cultish.

And LeBron fans are exactly the same.

That’s what’s wrong with people these days, completely unwilling and unable to see both sides of the coin.

I don't think that's the case though. I see, by proportion, probably 3:1 LeBron stans providing actual arguments and evidence as to why he is better than MJ whereas most MJ stans treat it like it's an axiomatic truth that he's the GOAT. LeBron stans, including me, are usually willing to give MJ credit and he typically ranks #2. MJ stans rarely give LeBron any credit and a lot of them don't rank LeBron #2 because even at #2 he would threaten MJ's standing.

[Lost92Bricks]

I'm not sure if people remember but LeBron is the only reason the Warriors didn't go 16-0 that year. They went 15-1. 12-0 swept the West outright. LeBron was able to grab one win against one of the greatest teams in NBA history, something no other Western team could do in the previous 3 playoff series. Moreover, LeBron played incredible in that 2017 Finals, with 34-12-10 on 56%. LeBron was hardly "man handled" if anything he stopped the whole "16-0" run that no other team could do, even with 12 tries.

So let's just ignore Kyrie Irving dropping back to back 40 points games in the 2017 finals.

[Magic Is Magic]

I'm not sure if people remember but LeBron is the only reason the Warriors didn't go 16-0 that year. They went 15-1. 12-0 swept the West outright. LeBron was able to grab one win against one of the greatest teams in NBA history, something no other Western team could do in the previous 3 playoff series. Moreover, LeBron played incredible in that 2017 Finals, with 34-12-10 on 56%. LeBron was hardly "man handled" if anything he stopped the whole "16-0" run that no other team could do, even with 12 tries.

So let's just ignore Kyrie Irving dropping back to back 40 points games in the 2017 finals.

The only reason I would ignore something like that is because it didn't happen. Unless you're talking about the 2016 Finals? Which I am obviously not.

[HEKTOR]

MJ

Lebron will need more rings to have a chance...not 1, not 2...

[Lost92Bricks]

The only reason I would ignore something like that is because it didn't happen. Unless you're talking about the 2016 Finals? Which I am obviously not.

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[Kurt Heimlich]

MJ stans are legit cultish.

And LeBron fans are exactly the same.

That’s what’s wrong with people these days, completely unwilling and unable to see both sides of the coin.

I don't think that's the case though. I see, by proportion, probably 3:1 LeBron stans providing actual arguments and evidence as to why he is better than MJ whereas most MJ stans treat it like it's an axiomatic truth that he's the GOAT. LeBron stans, including me, are usually willing to give MJ credit and he typically ranks #2. MJ stans rarely give LeBron any credit and a lot of them don't rank LeBron #2 because even at #2 he would threaten MJ's standing.

Turns out MJ "stans" are also willing to give LBJ credit as #2 and I see it time and time again (this MJ stan being an example). And give legit stats also. 6 of 6 finals, dominating his era, MVPs,, FMVPs, all time scoring average leader being obvious and primary examples. While Lebron has insane longevity (and thus the counting stats that come with that) as his best argument to offset his relative lack of era domination. See how this works?

[Kingsway_fan]

No-one dominated more than wilt... his records still dwarf nba stars today... one example.. he had more 50 point games than Jordan, Kobe, lebron combined.... wilt still owns more than 68 individual NBA records!... more than Jordan, Kobe, and lebron combined!

[Magic Is Magic]

The only reason I would ignore something like that is because it didn't happen. Unless you're talking about the 2016 Finals? Which I am obviously not.

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Yes as it turns out, based on mathematical principles and mathematic laws 38 points is not 40. So no, I do not see a "back to back" 40 point games. And anyway, LeBron still did more. I can reply back with, "Are you really going to ignore LeBron's 34-12-10 on 55%" in the 2017 Finals? I get that Kyrie was a special scorer, but LeBron still scored more so what does that say?

[Metallikid]

And LeBron fans are exactly the same.

That’s what’s wrong with people these days, completely unwilling and unable to see both sides of the coin.

I don't think that's the case though. I see, by proportion, probably 3:1 LeBron stans providing actual arguments and evidence as to why he is better than MJ whereas most MJ stans treat it like it's an axiomatic truth that he's the GOAT. LeBron stans, including me, are usually willing to give MJ credit and he typically ranks #2. MJ stans rarely give LeBron any credit and a lot of them don't rank LeBron #2 because even at #2 he would threaten MJ's standing.

Turns out MJ "stans" are also willing to give LBJ credit as #2 and I see it time and time again (this MJ stan being an example). And give legit stats also. 6 of 6 finals, dominating his era, MVPs,, FMVPs, all time scoring average leader being obvious and primary examples. While Lebron has insane longevity (and thus the counting stats that come with that) as his best argument to offset his relative lack of era domination. See how this works?

How did Jordan dominate his era more than LeBron? For one, everyone agrees the NBA was diluted and it was a particularly weak era on the whole. Second, LeBron went to every Finals the past decade except for one. I'm pretty sure that qualifies as just a high a level of domination. It just turns out there are better teams than there were in Jordan's days. The whole 6/6 thing is actually a fool's argument. 6/6 is not better than 6/7. More Finals appearances is not a knock. LeBron's now 4/10. I personally think that's a lot more imrpessive than 6/6 especially since 8 of the Finals were in a row. If he gets to 6/12 what argument would MJ have anymore except for the scoring titles, which isn't even what LeBron's best attribute is anyways?

[Magic Is Magic]

No-one dominated more than wilt... his records still dwarf nba stars today... one example.. he had more 50 point games than Jordan, Kobe, lebron combined.... wilt still owns more than 68 individual NBA records!... more than Jordan, Kobe, and lebron combined!

His Regular Season Treasure Chest is filled to the brim with "How in the Hell" achievements. But his Playoff Treasure Chest is rather bare, especially by comparison to his Regular Season achievements, and that is what hurts his ranking the most.

[Kurt Heimlich]

No-one dominated more than wilt... his records still dwarf nba stars today... one example.. he had more 50 point games than Jordan, Kobe, lebron combined.... wilt still owns more than 68 individual NBA records!... more than Jordan, Kobe, and lebron combined!

8 NBA teams when Wilt was a rookie, 17 when Wilt retired. He was a freak for his time for sure. But that time is just not comparable to the most post expansion era of the league. Factoring Wilt losing time and time again to Russell and the Celtics and obviously it's an even tougher argument. Russell (IMO) has the stronger GOAT arguement of the pre expansion era guys.

At some point maybe we can all agree that it makes more sense as an apples to apples comparison to view things in "eras". Pre expansion ERA GOAT (up to the 1976 ABA merger as a fairly obvious point in time) vs post Merger being an easy and perhaps most obvious distinction.

[Kingsway_fan]

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[Lost92Bricks]

Yes as it turns out, based on mathematical principles and mathematic laws 38 points is not 40. So no, I do not see a "back to back" 40 point games. And anyway, LeBron still did more. I can reply back with, "Are you really going to ignore LeBron's 34-12-10 on 55%" in the 2017 Finals? I get that Kyrie was a special scorer, but LeBron still scored more so what does that say?

Whatever. My problem is you should have mentioned Kyrie in your post. You made it seem like Lebron won the game himself when his own teammate was dropping 40 points.

[RB34]

MJ stans are legit cultish.

And LeBron fans are exactly the same.

That’s what’s wrong with people these days, completely unwilling and unable to see both sides of the coin.

I don't think that's the case though. I see, by proportion, probably 3:1 LeBron stans providing actual arguments and evidence as to why he is better than MJ whereas most MJ stans treat it like it's an axiomatic truth that he's the GOAT. LeBron stans, including me, are usually willing to give MJ credit and he typically ranks #2. MJ stans rarely give LeBron any credit and a lot of them don't rank LeBron #2 because even at #2 he would threaten MJ's standing.

That sounds a lot like confirmation bias to me.

There may be a lot of MJ fans that don’t give LeBron credit, but on the other hand there were a lot of fans calling LeBron the GOAT before he even had a ring.

Extremes on both sides.

[Marcus_Shart]

Darrell Armstrong. Defeated Judden in the 95 playoffs as a player for the Orlando Magic, and defeated Lebrun in the 2011 finals as an assistant coach for the Dallas Mavericks.

[JordansBulls]

So Other is to be Magic, Bird, Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem?

[Alonzo_Morning]

LeBron Jordan

[God Squad]

So Other is to be Magic, Bird, Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem?

Other is whoever you want it to be. State your case.

[Kingsway_fan]

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