How NBA rules prevented Michael Jordan's Bulls from facing superteams in the 1990s

[RSP83]

Good info but I don't know why it's directed at MJ rather than just being a primer on the league and salary cap at that time. MJ didn't face superteams but he also wasn't on a superteam. And other players were also not on or playing against superteams. So there was no superteam-related competitive advantage or disadvantage for MJ or anyone else.

Bulls was a superteam for 90s standards.

Maybe. But, in the same sense as that 73 win Warrior team. Team built on their own draft picks + some key veteran role players.

Bulls:
Own picks - MJ, Pippen, Grant (1st chip), Armstrong (1st chip), Kukoc (2nd chip)
Key Vets - Cartwright (1st chip), Rodman (2nd chip), Harper (2nd chip)

Warriors:
Own picks - Curry, Klay, Draymond, Barnes
Key Vets - Bogut, Iggy

And I don't think the 90s Bulls model was any different Blazers, Suns, Sonics, Jazz model that they faced in the Finals.

Blazers:
Own picks - Drexler, Porter, Kersey, Robinson, Duckworth (trade from SAS to POR in his first season)
Acquired Key vets - Buck Williams

Suns (actually closer to buy, rather than build model):
Own picks - Kevin Johnson (trade from CLE in his first season), Dan Majerle, Richard Dumas
Acquired key vets: Barkley, Chambers, Ainge

Sonics:
Own picks - Kemp, Payton, McMillan
Acquired key Vets - Perkins, Schrempf, Hawkins, McKey

[Got Nuffin]

Funny how they almost made the finals the first year he retired. Not exactly a "putrid" supporting cast. Pippen alone is basically equivalent to Kawhi Leonard in terms of career and Kawhi is considered to be a top 5 player in the game today.

Yes, but they became good because of Jordan - his coaching, leadership and example. Had Pippen played his career on another team he would have amounted to an average role player at best.

So Jordan now gets the credit for turning Pippen into a star? And he's somehow the coach of the Bulls too? No credit for the front office that made decisions Jordan disagreed with (trading Charles Oakley for the pick they used to draft Pippen) or Phil Jackson (in spite of him having more rings than fingers to put them on)?

He doesn't get credit for turning Pippen into a star, but he DOES get credit for turning Pippen into the fierce competitor that he became. Pippen was routinely referred to and labelled as 'soft' in his early years and teams like the Pistons and Knicks targeted him because they knew he would back down when faced with physical play / any adversity.

Would Pippen have developed a spine without Jordan by his side? Maybe, maybe not, but playing with Jordan eventually seemed to bring out the best in him.

[NADALalot]

Bulls was a superteam for 90s standards.

How many points did Rodman average again? 5.5, 5.7 and 4.7 in those 3 championship years with the Bulls.
And in 1990-91 Jordan was the only Bull to make the All-Star game.

Yeah, Rodman impacted the game with his scoring. What a braindead argument.

Rodman's 5ppg is the reason why the Bulls were not a "superteam".
If you replace Kyrie with Rodman, Brooklyn are not a superteam.

[RSP83]

Funny how they almost made the finals the first year he retired. Not exactly a "putrid" supporting cast. Pippen alone is basically equivalent to Kawhi Leonard in terms of career and Kawhi is considered to be a top 5 player in the game today.

Yes, but they became good because of Jordan - his coaching, leadership and example. Had Pippen played his career on another team he would have amounted to an average role player at best.

So Jordan now gets the credit for turning Pippen into a star? And he's somehow the coach of the Bulls too? No credit for the front office that made decisions Jordan disagreed with (trading Charles Oakley for the pick they used to draft Pippen) or Phil Jackson (in spite of him having more rings than fingers to put them on)?

Wow. Pippen better than Kawhi? You do know that Kawhi lead the Toronto Raptors to championship? Hit a game 7 buzzer beater to advance his team to the Finals.

Credit to Pippen for keeping that 55 win Bulls team going post-MJ retirement, he was super motivated to show that he was not just MJ's sidekick. But in the playoff and the next season (below .500) it's proven that Pippen just didn't have it mentally to sustain his level of play as the number 1 guy for the long haul. Pippen is a great player and definitely one of the most unique player among HoF-ers, but no, Kawhi is a legit franchise player, and Pippen is not.

Pippen used to be underrated, but lately I think he's being overrated by many people. And people often bring up Bulls 94's 55-win season, which I think is not enough to assess Pippen's rank among greats.

[camby23]

Yes, but they became good because of Jordan - his coaching, leadership and example. Had Pippen played his career on another team he would have amounted to an average role player at best.

So Jordan now gets the credit for turning Pippen into a star? And he's somehow the coach of the Bulls too? No credit for the front office that made decisions Jordan disagreed with (trading Charles Oakley for the pick they used to draft Pippen) or Phil Jackson (in spite of him having more rings than fingers to put them on)?

Wow. Pippen better than Kawhi? You do know that Kawhi lead the Toronto Raptors to championship? Hit a game 7 buzzer beater to advance his team to the Finals.

Credit to Pippen for keeping that 55 win Bulls team going post-MJ retirement, he was super motivated to show that he was not just MJ's sidekick. But in the playoff and the next season (below .500) it's proven that Pippen just didn't have it mentally to sustain his level of play as the number 1 guy for the long haul. Pippen is a great player and definitely one of the most unique player among HoF-ers, but no, Kawhi is a legit franchise player, and Pippen is not.

Pippen used to be underrated, but lately I think he's being overrated by many people. And people often bring up Bulls 94's 55-win season, which I think is not enough to assess Pippen's rank among greats.

Pippen was no Kawhi but still 90s best SF and the best sidekick of that decade.

[Fencer reregistered]

Good info but I don't know why it's directed at MJ rather than just being a primer on the league and salary cap at that time. MJ didn't face superteams but he also wasn't on a superteam. And other players were also not on or playing against superteams. So there was no superteam-related competitive advantage or disadvantage for MJ or anyone else.

Bulls was a superteam for 90s standards.

No they weren't. They just happened to have the GOAT. Were Duncan/Robinson/Elliot a super team?

Jordan/Pippen/Rodman looks comparably good by most people's GOAT ratings to LeBron/Wade/Bosh.

[Fencer reregistered]

How many points did Rodman average again? 5.5, 5.7 and 4.7 in those 3 championship years with the Bulls.
And in 1990-91 Jordan was the only Bull to make the All-Star game.

Yeah, Rodman impacted the game with his scoring. What a braindead argument.

Rodman's 5ppg is the reason why the Bulls were not a "superteam".
If you replace Kyrie with Rodman, Brooklyn are not a superteam.

I know the calendar says he was actually well into his 30s then. Even so, Bulls Rodman was a borderline HoFer in his prime.

[Fencer reregistered]

lebron would have won more than 6 titles in the 90s with those bulls teams going against craig ehlo's of the world.

Dude, JOHN STARKS was the Knicks 2nd best player. An undersized 2 guard who never shot above 45% from the field & averaged over 18ppg once.

Wouldn’t even be the 4th best player on nearly all the teams Lebron has matched up against.

And that was MJ’s biggest rival in the 90s.

Overstated re Starks, at least the way I remember it, and I lived in NYC then. For example, I'd guess that Mark Jackson, Anthony Mason and Charles Oakley all matched him in career all-star appearances.

[kazyv]

Genuinely amused that people are arguing that the Bulls weren't a superteam. They might have come together organically but their talent vastly outstripped any other team in the 1990s.

At one point the Bulls had the greatest player in league history, the league's best small forward (and perimeter defender), the greatest rebounder in league history and the league's best sixth man. Oh and arguably the greatest coach of all-time.

Not a superteam? Stop embarassing yourselves.

is the 2016 gsw team a superteam?

[RSP83]

So Jordan now gets the credit for turning Pippen into a star? And he's somehow the coach of the Bulls too? No credit for the front office that made decisions Jordan disagreed with (trading Charles Oakley for the pick they used to draft Pippen) or Phil Jackson (in spite of him having more rings than fingers to put them on)?

Wow. Pippen better than Kawhi? You do know that Kawhi lead the Toronto Raptors to championship? Hit a game 7 buzzer beater to advance his team to the Finals.

Credit to Pippen for keeping that 55 win Bulls team going post-MJ retirement, he was super motivated to show that he was not just MJ's sidekick. But in the playoff and the next season (below .500) it's proven that Pippen just didn't have it mentally to sustain his level of play as the number 1 guy for the long haul. Pippen is a great player and definitely one of the most unique player among HoF-ers, but no, Kawhi is a legit franchise player, and Pippen is not.

Pippen used to be underrated, but lately I think he's being overrated by many people. And people often bring up Bulls 94's 55-win season, which I think is not enough to assess Pippen's rank among greats.

Pippen was no Kawhi but still 90s best SF and the best sidekick of that decade.

I agree with this. Although, the 90s was pretty thin at SF outside of Pippen, Mullin, and later Grant Hill. The competition at SF in the 80s was a lot tougher with guys like Worthy, Wilkins, Bernard King, Bird, Erving, English around. Pippen was just the perfect sidekick to have next to your no. 1 option, he's unselfish, phenomenal defender, very good passer, and can fill in the no. 2 scorer spot (especially when MJ is a high volume no. 1 scorer). Although, it's a valid question to figure out why Pippen outside of the triangle system has not been as successful (Rockets and Blazers stints).

[RSP83]

Genuinely amused that people are arguing that the Bulls weren't a superteam. They might have come together organically but their talent vastly outstripped any other team in the 1990s.

At one point the Bulls had the greatest player in league history, the league's best small forward (and perimeter defender), the greatest rebounder in league history and the league's best sixth man. Oh and arguably the greatest coach of all-time.

Not a superteam? Stop embarassing yourselves.

is the 2016 gsw team a super team?

By that logic, In hindsight, yes, GOAT shooter Steph, 2nd GOAT shooter Klay, DPOY Draymond, DPOY Bogut, NBA Finals MVP Sixth man Iguodala.

The biggest part of the equation of that Bulls team is if you take out MJ. You are left with Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, and Phil Jackson. Not even sure that's a playoff team. Because in 95, minus Rodman, that team didn't look like they're making the playoff. I don't think Rodman would help much (frankly I don't think Rodman would work without MJ). So, I don't know, go ahead if you want to call them a super team. I wouldn't.

[Yeggo Poleggo]

Watch on YouTube

[Showtime 80]

Here's a small video that explains why a lot of people don't respect the modern era of AAU Buddy-buddy team hopping rule enhanced manufactured "stars:

Watch on YouTube

;t=66s

[Johnny Bball]

So can we at least stop bashing LeBron or Durant for creacting superteams, and stop talking bullsh...that Jordan would never have call Magic and Bird (and dozens of such nonsense) ? The rules in 90sand 80s were completely different.

No. Their attitudes were different. They were real competitors. Yet none of them left in free agency to join Magic, or Bird or whatever and team up. None of them demanded trades to specific teams to make a super team. They could have gamed the system. They could have colluded. They did not.

[camby23]

So can we at least stop bashing LeBron or Durant for creacting superteams, and stop talking bullsh...that Jordan would never have call Magic and Bird (and dozens of such nonsense) ? The rules in 90sand 80s were completely different.

No. Their attitudes were different. They were real competitors. Yet none of them left in free agency to join Magic, or Bird or whatever and team up . None of them demanded trades to specific teams to make a super team. They could have gamed the system. They could have colluded. They did not.

Did you even read this article ? For example Ewing was 34 when he was a free agent for the FIRST TIME in his career.

[Johnny Bball]

So can we at least stop bashing LeBron or Durant for creacting superteams, and stop talking bullsh...that Jordan would never have call Magic and Bird (and dozens of such nonsense) ? The rules in 90sand 80s were completely different.

No. Their attitudes were different. They were real competitors. Yet none of them left in free agency to join Magic, or Bird or whatever and team up . None of them demanded trades to specific teams to make a super team. They could have gamed the system. They could have colluded. They did not.

Did you even read this article ? For example Ewing was 34 when he was a free agent for the FIRST TIME in his career.

Oh... thank you for the example. I lived through that period. I don't need a history lesson young man. But none of them took shorter terms, one years etc. to game the system. none of them demanded trades to collude. It's that simple. You can try to fit it into your narrative whichever way you like, but it's only spin,

New stars make so much money that they can take chances to collude. The difference is in BBRI, not really the CBA.

[otwok]

Genuinely amused that people are arguing that the Bulls weren't a superteam. They might have come together organically but their talent vastly outstripped any other team in the 1990s.

At one point the Bulls had the greatest player in league history, the league's best small forward (and perimeter defender), the greatest rebounder in league history and the league's best sixth man. Oh and arguably the greatest coach of all-time.

Not a superteam? Stop embarassing yourselves.

is the 2016 gsw team a super team?

By that logic, In hindsight, yes, GOAT shooter Steph, 2nd GOAT shooter Klay, DPOY Draymond, DPOY Bogut, NBA Finals MVP Sixth man Iguodala.

The biggest part of the equation of that Bulls team is if you take out MJ. You are left with Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, and Phil Jackson. Not even sure that's a playoff team. Because in 95, minus Rodman, that team didn't look like they're making the playoff. I don't think Rodman would help much (frankly I don't think Rodman would work without MJ). So, I don't know, go ahead if you want to call them a super team. I wouldn't.

My thought is at the time if people weren't calling a team a super team at the moment and only started calling them that years sometimes decades later only based on results then they weren't a super team. It's irrelevant if it's organic or not.

I remember people were calling the kg/pierce/Allen Celtics a super team. Nobody was calling the Bulls a super team.



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[druggas]

lebron would have won more than 6 titles in the 90s with those bulls teams going against craig ehlo's of the world.

Dude, JOHN STARKS was the Knicks 2nd best player. An undersized 2 guard who never shot above 45% from the field & averaged over 18ppg once.

Wouldn’t even be the 4th best player on nearly all the teams Lebron has matched up against.

And that was MJ’s biggest rival in the 90s.

LeBorn's biggest rival was 5' 10" J.J. Barrea.

[picko]

is the 2016 gsw team a super team?

By that logic, In hindsight, yes, GOAT shooter Steph, 2nd GOAT shooter Klay, DPOY Draymond, DPOY Bogut, NBA Finals MVP Sixth man Iguodala.

The biggest part of the equation of that Bulls team is if you take out MJ. You are left with Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, and Phil Jackson. Not even sure that's a playoff team. Because in 95, minus Rodman, that team didn't look like they're making the playoff. I don't think Rodman would help much (frankly I don't think Rodman would work without MJ). So, I don't know, go ahead if you want to call them a super team. I wouldn't.

My thought is at the time if people weren't calling a team a super team at the moment and only started calling them that years sometimes decades later only based on results then they weren't a super team. It's irrelevant if it's organic or not.

I remember people were calling the kg/pierce/Allen Celtics a super team. Nobody was calling the Bulls a super team.

The terminology didn't exist then. So your way of thinking about this doesn't make sense.

Did everyone, at the time, believe that the Bulls were considerably better than their opponents? Yes. I recall the Bulls being the biggest sure thing I'd seen until the 2017 Warriors.

If those Bulls teams aren't superteams then quite frankly there are no superteams and we should stop wasting time talking about it.

However, I suspect the main reason that people are resistant to the Bulls being a superteam is because they somehow think it diminishes Jordan's legacy.

[RSP83]

By that logic, In hindsight, yes, GOAT shooter Steph, 2nd GOAT shooter Klay, DPOY Draymond, DPOY Bogut, NBA Finals MVP Sixth man Iguodala.

The biggest part of the equation of that Bulls team is if you take out MJ. You are left with Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, and Phil Jackson. Not even sure that's a playoff team. Because in 95, minus Rodman, that team didn't look like they're making the playoff. I don't think Rodman would help much (frankly I don't think Rodman would work without MJ). So, I don't know, go ahead if you want to call them a super team. I wouldn't.

My thought is at the time if people weren't calling a team a super team at the moment and only started calling them that years sometimes decades later only based on results then they weren't a super team. It's irrelevant if it's organic or not.

I remember people were calling the kg/pierce/Allen Celtics a super team. Nobody was calling the Bulls a super team.

The terminology didn't exist then. So your way of thinking about this doesn't make sense.

Did everyone, at the time, believe that the Bulls were considerably better than their opponents? Yes. I recall the Bulls being the biggest sure thing I'd seen until the 2017 Warriors.

If those Bulls teams aren't superteams then quite frankly there are no superteams and we should stop wasting time talking about it.

However, I suspect the main reason that people are resistant to the Bulls being a superteam is because they somehow think it diminishes Jordan's legacy.

Personally that's not how I see it. I'll just go with Rock Band analogy.

A Super Team is like the Traveling Wilburys, a band where it consist of HUGE names like Bob Dylan, George Harrison, Roy Orbison, Tom Petty, Jeff Lynne. Or Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young. These guys were already established guys before they form the Super Group. This is like the Brooklyn Nets, Big 3 Celtics, The Heatles, and the Warriors + KD. Nothing wrong with that. But this is my definition of Super Team.

The Beatles and the Rolling Stones, they weren't regarded as Super Group. Although in the hindsight, yes, they are sort of a Super Group. I mean Lennon, McCartney, Harrison, Ringo all end up among top Rock performers of all-time. Jagger, Richards, Watts, Brian Jones they are also legendary rock stars. People don't call them Super Group, they're just 2 of the Greatest Rock band of All-Time. Some people may call them Super Group, but most wouldn't. MJ's Bulls, Bird's Celtics, people can call them Super Team, but by my definition they're not. I think the organic growth aspect of these teams make them special and should be appreciated more. That's what makes the Beatles and The Stones special as well. The whole is better than the sum of its parts.

If we go by the definition that any dominant team as Super Team, then we can just call every multiple championship team as super teams. Like the Shaq and Kobe Lakers, Magic's Showtime Lakers, Bird's Celtics, MJs Bulls, Duncan's Spurs.