David Griffin Needs To Be Fired

[Funcrusher]

Hayes is 3 years younger than Hunter, let’s pump the breaks on establishing his ceiling just yet.

Forget about the Hayes/Naw/Hunter move - ill give you multiple reasons he should be fired in a list:

1. Steven Adams - lost a 1st to get this guy when players like Drummond were basically given away for free AND extended him

2. Made a good move by trading Jrue for a lot of assets but then proceeded to sit on Bledsoe - stunting the growth of the team/young players all while failing to get at least a 2nd rounder for him in the process

3. Whiffed on the JJ Reddick free agent signing - not entirely his fault he fell off - but waited way to long to trade him, got nothing of value back, all while pissing him off and sending bad messages to players/agents across the league - players dont forget and Reddick is well liked and has influence in the NBPA

4. Aliented Lonzo by allowing trade rumors to fester all year long, failed to sign him to an extension by again failing to make him feel wanted/part of the future - We get it, Ingram/Lonzo arent the best - but a trio of Lonzo-Ingram-Zion is a great foundation that many franchises would love to have.

5. Failed to put any kind of proper roster around Zion -- one of the biggest reasons he should be fired. Can any Pelican fan say that they would keep any player on this team outside of Lonzo/Ingram/Zion? Even Hayes/NAW - i dont see them as a lock on NBA roster - not from what they showed so far. Outside of Ingram/Zion/Lonzo - no other Pelican is averaging more than 10 pts a game for the season. That's pathetic.

And for me, the biggest reason to fire Griffin would be the hiring of SVG.

Van Gundy is a MORON - he literally destroyed the Pistons from the inside / out. Terrible eye for talent, bad in game manager, poor developer of young players, outdated offensive sets.

This is the guy Griffin trusts to mold Zion and the Pelicans into champions? That alone should be reason enough for a pink slip.

Zion is gone and that's sad.

You really don’t have much of a clue what you’re talking about, like about 90% of the people in this thread that only vaguely follow the Pelicans.

Nah, I'd say his post is actually 90% right, as a Pelicans fan that watches just about every game I can.

[lordjeff05]

Have you seen Hunter play this year? He's 3x the player either of those guys are and ever will be.

I have, Hunter is very good, although the sample size has been small this season. He's also a year older than NAW and 3 years older than Hayes. NAW was putting together a nice streak of games before getting hurt. Hayes is raw but the talent is there.

Players don't get longer rookie contracts for being younger. After their 4th year all of them will be paid "market value" by NBA teams. So Hayes/NAW being younger in this case merely means that they take longer to reach their potential, at which time they'd be on their 2nd contracts and far less likely to generate surplus value. (Since younger players get more $$ contracts on potential this problem is even worse.)

The relevance of them being younger is that there is room for growth and development. Jax has grown so much defensively this year, and in the past 15 games he and Zion are a plus 15 when playing together even with the recent spate of injury history.

Hunter looked great this year but just like this entire thread, it’s a little premature to make some existential assessment on this move just yet.

[Bergmaniac]

The Adams deal and his extension were baffling moves. Adams's play has been declining for years, his contract was terrible and he's a poor fit next to Zion. The extension is not as bad as his current contract, but still a massive overpay for a guy who currently is average at best at everything except rebounding.

[Grits n Gravy]

The Adams deal and his extension were baffling moves. Adams's play has been declining for years, his contract was terrible and he's a poor fit next to Zion. The extension is not as bad as his current contract, but still a massive overpay for a guy who currently is average at best at everything except rebounding.

I agree. At this stage Adams is a back up 15-20 minutes per night and has to be on the right team even then. It's a shame how far he has declined considering he's only 27/28 and was seemingly getting better every year for the first 5 or so years of his career. I suspect he's gotten too big as he was considerably leaner, quicker and bouncier earlier in his career. Couldn't be a worse team for him to be on and he was born 25 years too late, his era was 90's/early 00's.

[NO-KG-AI]

I think Hayes and Walker still have a lot to offer. Walker especially looks so good when he plays starter minutes.

Honestly, despite all the gloom and doom, let me pose a question. If you take the top talent off of every team(so Zion, Luka, Shai, Trae, Tatum, etc), whose youth and assets would you rather build around.

Unless I’m forgetting someone, I wouldn’t trade Ingram, Lonzo, Hart, NAW, Hayes, Kira Lewis, a bevvy of picks from the Lakers and Bucks, owning all of our own picks, and no deals other than Ingram past 3 seasons.

Am I forgetting someone? We could completely blow it, but Zion has a great core around him moving forward, we’re not even 2 years post AD trade when the cupboard was completely bare.




Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[slicedbread2]

I think Hayes and Walker still have a lot to offer. Walker especially looks so good when he plays starter minutes.

Honestly, despite all the gloom and doom, let me pose a question. If you take the top talent off of every team(so Zion, Luka, Shai, Trae, Tatum, etc), whose youth and assets would you rather build around.

Unless I’m forgetting someone, I wouldn’t trade Ingram, Lonzo, Hart, NAW, Hayes, Kira Lewis, a bevvy of picks from the Lakers and Bucks, owning all of our own picks, and no deals other than Ingram past 3 seasons.

Am I forgetting someone? We could completely blow it, but Zion has a great core around him moving forward, we’re not even 2 years post AD trade when the cupboard was completely bare.




Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I'll admit that many people can lose their minds sometimes(myself included) when it comes to stuff like this and for me it's all fun to speculate what could've been done in retrospect.

What is baffling to me is that he made the following gaffes:

1) Draft night 2019. I know the trade was made prior and that the Hawks would tell NOLA who to take with the pick, but to me they missed an opportunity to get way more value for that pick. Most of these players we won't know how well they'll do until 3-4 years down line. To me, Griffin had the following assets that he could've squeezed out of the Hawks:

-Atlanta's 1sts in 2019(8th)+20
-Dallas's 1st(10th)
-Brooklyn's 1sts(17th)+2020 1st
-Cleveland's 1st(top 10 pro. that became 2 2nds)
-OKC's 1st(lotto pro. till 22 that'll become 24+25 2nds)

Instead he used the 4th pick to dump Solomon Hill when the team was rebuilding and had no need to do that. They settled for the 8th+17th+35th pick and Cleveland's 1st that became 2 2nds. The Silva dude taken with the 2nd probably won't come for a few years while he develops and the Cleveland 2nds are TBD. To me Griffin could've nabbed the Thunder's 1st and maybe the Brooklyn 1st/pro. ATL 1st and test Schlenk to see how desperate he really was to move up for Hunter. Could've nabbed Garland but oh well it is what it is.

2) The post Jrue Holiday moves. I don't blame Griffin for moving Jrue as it was apparent that he was gonna go elsewhere the 2nd he'd become an FA and his age didn't fit with the timeline of the young core. The trade was good at the time as it wasn't guaranteed that Giannis would stay. Once Giannis signed the super max and Jrue signed, the only pick that could be of value is the 26 pick swap+27 1st.

The other thing that left me scratching my head was that NOLA gave up the IND 20 1st to DEN for the pick that became R.J. Hampton who was later flipped for Aaron Gordon(nice grab for them). Then the Nuggets flipped their 23 1st to OKC who managed to create a new TPE for Adams and got the better player in Hill. Then they extended Adams without seeing whether or not he'd fit with Zion especially seeing that other bigs were just getting 2/16-20M tops whereas Adams got a 2/35M. If they were to give up a 1st, they may as well have tossed in a couple of 2nds to keep Hill and instead send Bledsoe to OKC as it's apparent that Bledsoe looks horrible out there.

3) Not moving Redick prior to this season. Father time is fickle and can strike anywhere. Griffin should've moved Redick ASAP before his decline and if need be could've taken a bad deal to nab some assets for future use from a team looking for cap relief. Obviously there wasn't a market for him due to his decline and contract, but they managed to get a 2nd+Iwundu out of it.

4) Extending Lonzo. He can be a polarizing player at times, but to me, Griffin should've extended Lonzo before this year. Apparently there were crazy rumours that he was shopping Lonzo and was willing to give him up in a deal to dump Bledsoe due to their cap space being horribly mismanaged not to mention they are teetering at the tax line at under 300K. Ball has really turned a corner with his improved FT% and it's nice to see his 3pt shot being good at 37%. He's a good fit with Zion+BI going forward and hope they can keep him.

[NO-KG-AI]

I think Hayes and Walker still have a lot to offer. Walker especially looks so good when he plays starter minutes.

Honestly, despite all the gloom and doom, let me pose a question. If you take the top talent off of every team(so Zion, Luka, Shai, Trae, Tatum, etc), whose youth and assets would you rather build around.

Unless I’m forgetting someone, I wouldn’t trade Ingram, Lonzo, Hart, NAW, Hayes, Kira Lewis, a bevvy of picks from the Lakers and Bucks, owning all of our own picks, and no deals other than Ingram past 3 seasons.

Am I forgetting someone? We could completely blow it, but Zion has a great core around him moving forward, we’re not even 2 years post AD trade when the cupboard was completely bare.




Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I'll admit that many people can lose their minds sometimes(myself included) when it comes to stuff like this and for me it's all fun to speculate what could've been done in retrospect.

What is baffling to me is that he made the following gaffes:

1) Draft night 2019. I know the trade was made prior and that the Hawks would tell NOLA who to take with the pick, but to me they missed an opportunity to get way more value for that pick. Most of these players we won't know how well they'll do until 3-4 years down line. To me, Griffin had the following assets that he could've squeezed out of the Hawks:

-Atlanta's 1sts in 2019(8th)+20
-Dallas's 1st(10th)
-Brooklyn's 1sts(17th)+2020 1st
-Cleveland's 1st(top 10 pro. that became 2 2nds)
-OKC's 1st(lotto pro. till 22 that'll become 24+25 2nds)

Instead he used the 4th pick to dump Solomon Hill when the team was rebuilding and had no need to do that. They settled for the 8th+17th+35th pick and Cleveland's 1st that became 2 2nds. The Silva dude taken with the 2nd probably won't come for a few years while he develops and the Cleveland 2nds are TBD. To me Griffin could've nabbed the Thunder's 1st and maybe the Brooklyn 1st/pro. ATL 1st and test Schlenk to see how desperate he really was to move up for Hunter. Could've nabbed Garland but oh well it is what it is.

2) The post Jrue Holiday moves. I don't blame Griffin for moving Jrue as it was apparent that he was gonna go elsewhere the 2nd he'd become an FA and his age didn't fit with the timeline of the young core. The trade was good at the time as it wasn't guaranteed that Giannis would stay. Once Giannis signed the super max and Jrue signed, the only pick that could be of value is the 26 pick swap+27 1st.

The other thing that left me scratching my head was that NOLA gave up the IND 20 1st to DEN for the pick that became R.J. Hampton who was later flipped for Aaron Gordon(nice grab for them). Then the Nuggets flipped their 23 1st to OKC who managed to create a new TPE for Adams and got the better player in Hill. Then they extended Adams without seeing whether or not he'd fit with Zion especially seeing that other bigs were just getting 2/16-20M tops whereas Adams got a 2/35M. If they were to give up a 1st, they may as well have tossed in a couple of 2nds to keep Hill and instead send Bledsoe to OKC as it's apparent that Bledsoe looks horrible out there.

3) Not moving Redick prior to this season. Father time is fickle and can strike anywhere. Griffin should've moved Redick ASAP before his decline and if need be could've taken a bad deal to nab some assets for future use from a team looking for cap relief. Obviously there wasn't a market for him due to his decline and contract, but they managed to get a 2nd+Iwundu out of it.

4) Extending Lonzo. He can be a polarizing player at times, but to me, Griffin should've extended Lonzo before this year. Apparently there were crazy rumours that he was shopping Lonzo and was willing to give him up in a deal to dump Bledsoe due to their cap space being horribly mismanaged not to mention they are teetering at the tax line at under 300K. Ball has really turned a corner with his improved FT% and it's nice to see his 3pt shot being good at 37%. He's a good fit with Zion+BI going forward and hope they can keep him.

Ok, all that aside though, where we are today, would you trade our non Zion core for another team’s assets? I wouldn’t trade BI, our picks, and the other young guys for another team’s young core. I might be forgetting someone, but I guess the ones I’d be considering is OKC’s mass of picks, i guess the Suns outside of Booker? That one is interesting. Atlanta minus Trae? Memphis minus Ja? Boston without Tatum?

I don’t think there is a mix of a young star, other potential guys, cap flexibility and a bunch of picks that is better. It’s certainly near the top, if not the best. Griffin might not have played the perfect hand, but he did pit that entire core together and hit the lotto with Zion.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[slicedbread2]

I think Hayes and Walker still have a lot to offer. Walker especially looks so good when he plays starter minutes.

Honestly, despite all the gloom and doom, let me pose a question. If you take the top talent off of every team(so Zion, Luka, Shai, Trae, Tatum, etc), whose youth and assets would you rather build around.

Unless I’m forgetting someone, I wouldn’t trade Ingram, Lonzo, Hart, NAW, Hayes, Kira Lewis, a bevvy of picks from the Lakers and Bucks, owning all of our own picks, and no deals other than Ingram past 3 seasons.

Am I forgetting someone? We could completely blow it, but Zion has a great core around him moving forward, we’re not even 2 years post AD trade when the cupboard was completely bare.




Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I'll admit that many people can lose their minds sometimes(myself included) when it comes to stuff like this and for me it's all fun to speculate what could've been done in retrospect.

What is baffling to me is that he made the following gaffes:

1) Draft night 2019. I know the trade was made prior and that the Hawks would tell NOLA who to take with the pick, but to me they missed an opportunity to get way more value for that pick. Most of these players we won't know how well they'll do until 3-4 years down line. To me, Griffin had the following assets that he could've squeezed out of the Hawks:

-Atlanta's 1sts in 2019(8th)+20
-Dallas's 1st(10th)
-Brooklyn's 1sts(17th)+2020 1st
-Cleveland's 1st(top 10 pro. that became 2 2nds)
-OKC's 1st(lotto pro. till 22 that'll become 24+25 2nds)

Instead he used the 4th pick to dump Solomon Hill when the team was rebuilding and had no need to do that. They settled for the 8th+17th+35th pick and Cleveland's 1st that became 2 2nds. The Silva dude taken with the 2nd probably won't come for a few years while he develops and the Cleveland 2nds are TBD. To me Griffin could've nabbed the Thunder's 1st and maybe the Brooklyn 1st/pro. ATL 1st and test Schlenk to see how desperate he really was to move up for Hunter. Could've nabbed Garland but oh well it is what it is.

2) The post Jrue Holiday moves. I don't blame Griffin for moving Jrue as it was apparent that he was gonna go elsewhere the 2nd he'd become an FA and his age didn't fit with the timeline of the young core. The trade was good at the time as it wasn't guaranteed that Giannis would stay. Once Giannis signed the super max and Jrue signed, the only pick that could be of value is the 26 pick swap+27 1st.

The other thing that left me scratching my head was that NOLA gave up the IND 20 1st to DEN for the pick that became R.J. Hampton who was later flipped for Aaron Gordon(nice grab for them). Then the Nuggets flipped their 23 1st to OKC who managed to create a new TPE for Adams and got the better player in Hill. Then they extended Adams without seeing whether or not he'd fit with Zion especially seeing that other bigs were just getting 2/16-20M tops whereas Adams got a 2/35M. If they were to give up a 1st, they may as well have tossed in a couple of 2nds to keep Hill and instead send Bledsoe to OKC as it's apparent that Bledsoe looks horrible out there.

3) Not moving Redick prior to this season. Father time is fickle and can strike anywhere. Griffin should've moved Redick ASAP before his decline and if need be could've taken a bad deal to nab some assets for future use from a team looking for cap relief. Obviously there wasn't a market for him due to his decline and contract, but they managed to get a 2nd+Iwundu out of it.

4) Extending Lonzo. He can be a polarizing player at times, but to me, Griffin should've extended Lonzo before this year. Apparently there were crazy rumours that he was shopping Lonzo and was willing to give him up in a deal to dump Bledsoe due to their cap space being horribly mismanaged not to mention they are teetering at the tax line at under 300K. Ball has really turned a corner with his improved FT% and it's nice to see his 3pt shot being good at 37%. He's a good fit with Zion+BI going forward and hope they can keep him.

Ok, all that aside though, where we are today, would you trade our non Zion core for another team’s assets? I wouldn’t trade BI, our picks, and the other young guys for another team’s young core. I might be forgetting someone, but I guess the ones I’d be considering is OKC’s mass of picks, i guess the Suns outside of Booker? That one is interesting. Atlanta minus Trae? Memphis minus Ja? Boston without Tatum?

I don’t think there is a mix of a young star, other potential guys, cap flexibility and a bunch of picks that is better. It’s certainly near the top, if not the best. Griffin might not have played the perfect hand, but he did pit that entire core together and hit the lotto with Zion.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

That's a good point. It could be worse as they say. The core itself has done well and I do agree that NAW and Hayes need time but look very promising. I'd be all right with where they are as they'll have the typical growing pains of any young squad. They should resign Lonzo ASAP and hopefully NAW takes up another step where Bledsoe can play with the 2nd unit.

Plus they could always add another piece with the developing core. Hopefully BI can be more consistent, Zion stays in shape and adds a 13-17ft jump shot that'd save his knees and make him even more of a nuisance on the floor along with Hayes+NAW taking those next steps.

Griffin hasn't done too bad, could be worse although jumping the gun on Adams' ex. prematurely was a gaffe, but it is what it is. I could see them moving Bledsoe to get more depth as whenever the starting 5 goes off, the bench seems to falter badly.

[Effigy]

David Griffin, Cleveland's vice president of basketball operations at the time, told Lloyd that his top choice in the draft was Victor Oladipo, who went second to the Magic.

Seems like a pretty classic case of ass covering to me. Nobody wanted to draft Bennett, it just happened. Everyone always wanted to draft the guy who didn't bust.

And yet, he voted for Bennett too.

If nobody really wanted the guy…well they sure showed it by picking him before literally every other choice.

Right, that's what I was saying. NOW, everyone seems to say they didn't want to draft Bennet, they preferred someone else. No idea how he actually got taken, because everyone insists they were against it. It's just ass-covering and it's hard to take that stuff too seriously. It's real easy to say after the fact that you wanted the better player, not easy to prove it, and if EVERYONE is saying it, then clearly people are lying.

[chrisab123]

I mean he's not bad. The Jrue trade was great. AD trade worked out well so far for both but I think that was more so due to Rich Paul than David Griffin.

[ItsDanger]

THis entire thread lacks context. Lots of rebuilding teams are put in the position of having players available that do not meet their needs and not always easy to trade the surplus to satisfy the deficits. Pelicans are a work in progress.

[Juggernaut24]

Let's see what kind of contract he matches or offers to Lonzo or if he S+T him first. He can't botch that one.