WC | Rd. 2| (2) Suns vs (3) Nuggets [4-0 Suns]

[bwgood77]

So its the "worst MVP in the NBA history" vs "guy who should of been traded for Kuzma"...

I hate NBA mainstream media. Should be a good series. Rooting for both teams.

Now I see fans on twitter saying Lillard for Kuzma.

[um.]

Nuggets fan here. Seriously worried about Ayton guarding Jokic, but our sweet Serbian has impressed us and blown us away year after year. I wouldn't be surprised if Jokic steps it up another notch once again. Nuggets in 7.

[darmani]

I don't understand all these Portland-Phoenix comparisons. These 2 teams aren't similar at all.

Portland had one of the worst defenses in the history of the NBA. The Suns had a top-6 defense in the league whole season.

Portland has a heliocentric offensive system with one player doing EVERYTHING on that end. The Suns offense is predicated on ball movement and player movement. The Suns were 1st in the league in assist ratio, the Blazers were last.

[AtheJ415]

If PHO believes of facing RS Jokic he will make a big mistake... The usage of Jokic in PO increasing from 29% to 36%.
This leads to an enormous effort in those who have to defend him.

Nurkic that has been always one of best to defend Jokic, increased his Fouls Rate per 100 possessions from 5.7 to 8.8 (+54%).
Yes, Nurkic is fouls prone but probably defend PO Jokic is a no joke.

Ayton in RS had a Fouls Rate per 100 possessions of 4.6 and during the LAL serie against Drummond and Gasol 4.2 (-8%) doesn't seem like he had to work too hard... we'll see against PO Jokic

Judging effort by foul rate is inherently faulty

[Johnny Firpo]

Suns were tied for 6th best offensive rating with the Nuggets at 116.3. They are also an excellent slashing team who plays great defense. If CP is healthy, Suns in 5 or 6.

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Jokic struggles against high PnR's where the attacking guard explodes to the rim. Suns don't have that kind of electric guard, both Booker and Paul are finesse. Booker is not as good a slasher Dame is. So no, Suns are not what I mean by 'slashing'. Good luck.

I think you’re going to be in for a surprise. CP3 isn’t what he once was, but Booker and Cam Payne just ran circles around the #1 defense in the NBA.

To be fair though, they need AD being out for that. The first three games looked thoroughly different, didn't it? As far as this matchup goes, I have no clue, but I expect a close series, mainly because of Jokic. He is playing at an extremely high level. Not nearly as sure about his supporting cast of course. They are very inconsistent.

[AtheJ415]

Denver’s worst matchups are great, slasher-heavy offenses. Denver doesn’t care about good defensive teams, because Jokic dismantles pretty much any defense thrown at him. That is why Portland was actually a tougher matchup than Suns will be for Denver imo. Suns lack the offensive talent needed to take Denver down in a 7-game series, I have Denver in 5 or 6.

Suns were tied for 6th best offensive rating with the Nuggets at 116.3. They are also an excellent slashing team who plays great defense. If CP is healthy, Suns in 5 or 6.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

Jokic struggles against high PnR's where the attacking guard explodes to the rim. Suns don't have that kind of electric guard, both Booker and Paul are finesse. Booker is not as good a slasher Dame is. So no, Suns are not what I mean by 'slashing'. Good luck.

Booker is literally one of the fastest guards in the NBA. He was the fastest lane agility in his draft class and I think even beat out John Wall in that. Just because he plays with skill doesn't mean he can't attack. Most of his buckets are much closer to the basket & mid range than the perimeter.

[AtheJ415]

Jokic struggles against high PnR's where the attacking guard explodes to the rim. Suns don't have that kind of electric guard, both Booker and Paul are finesse. Booker is not as good a slasher Dame is. So no, Suns are not what I mean by 'slashing'. Good luck.

I think you’re going to be in for a surprise. CP3 isn’t what he once was, but Booker and Cam Payne just ran circles around the #1 defense in the NBA.

To be fair though, they need AD being out for that. The first three games looked thoroughly different, didn't it? As far as this matchup goes, I have no clue, but I expect a close series, mainly because of Jokic. He is playing at an extremely high level. Not nearly as sure about his supporting cast of course. They are very inconsistent.

Not really. When CP3 was healthy Suns were what they've been all year. And Payne blew past everybody all series even with AD. His finishing was up and down but he gets to the rim at will.

[Mick Dundee]

Wouldn't it be a cinema-esque story if Austin Rivers, who was unemployed a few weeks ago and whose career was about to dissolve into utter insignificance, reached the finals with the Nuggets?

[Johnny Firpo]

I think you’re going to be in for a surprise. CP3 isn’t what he once was, but Booker and Cam Payne just ran circles around the #1 defense in the NBA.

To be fair though, they need AD being out for that. The first three games looked thoroughly different, didn't it? As far as this matchup goes, I have no clue, but I expect a close series, mainly because of Jokic. He is playing at an extremely high level. Not nearly as sure about his supporting cast of course. They are very inconsistent.

Not really. When CP3 was healthy Suns were what they've been all year. And Payne blew past everybody all series even with AD. His finishing was up and down but he gets to the rim at will.

It wasn't different, really? With AD in the lineup, the Suns scored 99, 102 and 95, and were down 1-2. Game 4, the Suns scored 23 in the first quarter, and again were on pace to have a sub-100 game. Then AD got hurt, and from that point on, the Suns started to score at will. How can you say nothing was different?

[BelgradeNugget]

I don't understand all these Portland-Phoenix comparisons. These 2 teams aren't similar at all.

Portland had one of the worst defenses in the history of the NBA. The Suns had a top-6 defense in the league whole season.

Portland has a heliocentric offensive system with one player doing EVERYTHING on that end. The Suns offense is predicated on ball movement and player movement. The Suns were 1st in the league in assist ratio, the Blazers were last.

Good questions. In Den-Por series we used this forum to find out more about opposing team. Portland fans helped a lot. What I learned about their team and their defense, was the fact that you couldn't look at their season to make conclusions about their team in playoffs. They had a lot of injuries to their main players during the season, and were fighting to be even in position to make a run for playoffs. Their defense is one story with Nurkic, and totally different with Kanter. Their team was at their best entering playoffs. Their defense was terible over the season but when they got all of their players back they were in the middle of the pack. 18th in DEFRTG since 3/31/2021 in last 26 games.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&DateFrom=03%2F31%2F2021

What I find interesting here is the fact that Phoenix defense was 24th in the same period. What is the reason for that?

About Portland offense they used a lot of pnr's with Dame and Nurkic. Both of them were good at hitting shooters in the corner if defense rotate. Nurk averaged 3.4 ast. Thay had 7 players shooting better than 38% from 3, as a team they were hitting 16 3s per game on 38%.

[FinnTheHuman]

Suns were tied for 6th best offensive rating with the Nuggets at 116.3. They are also an excellent slashing team who plays great defense. If CP is healthy, Suns in 5 or 6.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

Jokic struggles against high PnR's where the attacking guard explodes to the rim. Suns don't have that kind of electric guard, both Booker and Paul are finesse. Booker is not as good a slasher Dame is. So no, Suns are not what I mean by 'slashing'. Good luck.

I think you’re going to be in for a surprise. CP3 isn’t what he once was, but Booker and Cam Payne just ran circles around the #1 defense in the NBA.

No they didn’t, it wasn’t their bread and butter, there’s a reason Suns had a 109 offensive rating vs Lakers. You beat the Lakers because they have no offense, not because your offense looked good lol

[FinnTheHuman]

Suns were tied for 6th best offensive rating with the Nuggets at 116.3. They are also an excellent slashing team who plays great defense. If CP is healthy, Suns in 5 or 6.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

Jokic struggles against high PnR's where the attacking guard explodes to the rim. Suns don't have that kind of electric guard, both Booker and Paul are finesse. Booker is not as good a slasher Dame is. So no, Suns are not what I mean by 'slashing'. Good luck.

Booker is literally one of the fastest guards in the NBA. He was the fastest lane agility in his draft class and I think even beat out John Wall in that. Just because he plays with skill doesn't mean he can't attack. Most of his buckets are much closer to the basket & mid range than the perimeter.

Yeah, doesn’t matter that he can, it’s not his style to attack explosively, that’s the whole point.

[darmani]

Jokic struggles against high PnR's where the attacking guard explodes to the rim. Suns don't have that kind of electric guard, both Booker and Paul are finesse. Booker is not as good a slasher Dame is. So no, Suns are not what I mean by 'slashing'. Good luck.

I think you’re going to be in for a surprise. CP3 isn’t what he once was, but Booker and Cam Payne just ran circles around the #1 defense in the NBA.

No they didn’t, it wasn’t their bread and butter, there’s a reason Suns had a 109 offensive rating vs Lakers. You beat the Lakers because they have no offense, not because your offense looked good lol

Lakers DefRtg during the regular season - 106.8 (#1 in the NBA)
Lakers DefRtg against the Suns in the 1st round - 109.3

Suns offense was just fine against the Lakers, considering the circumstances (playing against the best defense in the league with one-handed CP3 for most of the series).

Lillard took 41 shots in the paint against the Nuggets
Booker took 52 shots in the paint against the Lakers

Lillard 78 3-pointers
Booker 35 3-pointers

Who is the slasher here and who is the jump-shooter?

[FinnTheHuman]

I think you’re going to be in for a surprise. CP3 isn’t what he once was, but Booker and Cam Payne just ran circles around the #1 defense in the NBA.

No they didn’t, it wasn’t their bread and butter, there’s a reason Suns had a 109 offensive rating vs Lakers. You beat the Lakers because they have no offense, not because your offense looked good lol

Lakers DefRtg during the regular season - 106.8 (#1 in the NBA)
Lakers DefRtg against the Suns in the 1st round - 109.3

Suns offense was just fine against the Lakers, considering the circumstances (playing against the best defense in the league with one-handed CP3 for most of the series).

Lillard took 41 shots in the paint against the Nuggets
Booker took 52 shots in the paint against the Lakers

Lillard 78 3-pointers
Booker 35 3-pointers

Who is the slasher here and who is the jump-shooter?

You obviously didn’t watch the Por-Den series because all these Lillard double digit assist games(5/6 games double digit assists) come from him driving and kicking to the guy who was wide open because help came to stop Lillard from laying it up. How many assists did Booker average? Less than 5.

[darmani]

No they didn’t, it wasn’t their bread and butter, there’s a reason Suns had a 109 offensive rating vs Lakers. You beat the Lakers because they have no offense, not because your offense looked good lol

Lakers DefRtg during the regular season - 106.8 (#1 in the NBA)
Lakers DefRtg against the Suns in the 1st round - 109.3

Suns offense was just fine against the Lakers, considering the circumstances (playing against the best defense in the league with one-handed CP3 for most of the series).

Lillard took 41 shots in the paint against the Nuggets
Booker took 52 shots in the paint against the Lakers

Lillard 78 3-pointers
Booker 35 3-pointers

Who is the slasher here and who is the jump-shooter?

You obviously didn’t watch the Por-Den series because all these Lillard double digit assist games(5/6 games double digit assists) come from him driving and kicking to the guy who was wide open because help came to stop Lillard from laying it up. How many assists did Booker average? Less than 5.

Sure, buddy.

Drives per game in the playoffs:

Lillard - 13.8 in 41.3 mpg
Booker - 13.7 in 40.8 mpg
CP3 - 13.7 in 28.3 mpg
Payne - 10.3 in 23.2 mpg
McCollum - 8.8 in 39.9 mpg

Team drives per game

- playoffs:
Suns 44.2
Portland 33.5 (last in the league)

- regular season:
Suns 43.5
Portland 30.7 (last in the league, only Denver and Portland had less than 40 drives per game)

[darmani]

To be fair though, they need AD being out for that. The first three games looked thoroughly different, didn't it? As far as this matchup goes, I have no clue, but I expect a close series, mainly because of Jokic. He is playing at an extremely high level. Not nearly as sure about his supporting cast of course. They are very inconsistent.

Not really. When CP3 was healthy Suns were what they've been all year. And Payne blew past everybody all series even with AD. His finishing was up and down but he gets to the rim at will.

It wasn't different, really? With AD in the lineup, the Suns scored 99, 102 and 95, and were down 1-2. Game 4, the Suns scored 23 in the first quarter, and again were on pace to have a sub-100 game. Then AD got hurt, and from that point on, the Suns started to score at will. How can you say nothing was different?

The Suns beat the Lakers with healthy AD in game 1 and had a lead when AD got injured in game 4.

For the series:

Lakers with Davis on court 102.8 OffRtg, 108.4 DefRtg, -5.6 NetRtg in 144 minutes
Lakers with Davis off court 101. OffRtg, 108.3 DefRtg, -7.3 NetRtg in 144 minutes

[Saberestar]

Jokic struggles against high PnR's where the attacking guard explodes to the rim. Suns don't have that kind of electric guard, both Booker and Paul are finesse. Booker is not as good a slasher Dame is. So no, Suns are not what I mean by 'slashing'. Good luck.

Booker is literally one of the fastest guards in the NBA. He was the fastest lane agility in his draft class and I think even beat out John Wall in that. Just because he plays with skill doesn't mean he can't attack. Most of his buckets are much closer to the basket & mid range than the perimeter.

Yeah, doesn’t matter that he can, it’s not his style to attack explosively, that’s the whole point.

You will think a lot different about Booker after this series.

[FinnTheHuman]

Lakers DefRtg during the regular season - 106.8 (#1 in the NBA)
Lakers DefRtg against the Suns in the 1st round - 109.3

Suns offense was just fine against the Lakers, considering the circumstances (playing against the best defense in the league with one-handed CP3 for most of the series).

Lillard took 41 shots in the paint against the Nuggets
Booker took 52 shots in the paint against the Lakers

Lillard 78 3-pointers
Booker 35 3-pointers

Who is the slasher here and who is the jump-shooter?

You obviously didn’t watch the Por-Den series because all these Lillard double digit assist games(5/6 games double digit assists) come from him driving and kicking to the guy who was wide open because help came to stop Lillard from laying it up. How many assists did Booker average? Less than 5.

Sure, buddy.

Drives per game in the playoffs:

Lillard - 13.8 in 41.3 mpg
Booker - 13.7 in 40.8 mpg
CP3 - 13.7 in 28.3 mpg
Payne - 10.3 in 23.2 mpg
McCollum - 8.8 in 39.9 mpg

Team drives per game

- playoffs:
Suns 44.2
Portland 33.5 (last in the league)

- regular season:
Suns 43.5
Portland 30.7 (last in the league, only Denver and Portland had less than 40 drives per game)

I mean those stats have to mean that drives include stopping to shoot the midrange or smth, there's no other way I buy this. CP3 did not deliberately attack the paint on the volume that stat is suggesting, neither did Booker, I have a functioning brain and a pair of eyes to know better.

[Alatan]

If CP3 was healthy this would be Suns no question but since he has a bad shoulder the series is more than winnable. Just play CP3 for the pass and force him to shoot on his bad shoulder. This is one of the few matcups where Campazzo can shine. Play the numbers and we win this.

Ayton is not a shot creator and he relies on someone getting him the ball. Making CP3 a scorer essentially neutralizes Ayton too.

Booker will get his but he cant win it all by himself. We survived Lillard and McCollum we can survive Booker who is still inconsistent as a shooter.

Suns defense is much better but it relies on movement and communication. Something Jokic excels in breaking down.

Nurk was a harder matchup for Jokic. He is stronger than Ayton, more expeienced, plays with more physicality and knows Jokics tendencies. Still Jokic cooked him. Ayton is in for a ride.

Suns beat the Lakers because AD was hurt and Lebron lost his lift enabling the Suns to build a wall against him. After that there was no one else to create or score. Lakers stacking the team with bigs and slashers while ignoring shooters didnt help either.

Playing Nuggets will be different as Jokic welcomes double teams and plays better when he can assist rather that just score.

We will see if MPJ can handle Crowders physicality or Bridges' length and be our 2nd best player. He has the will to overcome adversity and the shooting touch to torch anyone. I have my hopes.

Gordon has been a non factor in the POs as well as in most of his regular season games. Can he redeem himself by slowing down Booker and attacking the Suns weak interior? We shall see.

Morris has been a pleasant surprise. Can he run the PnR with Jokic that has been so deadly with Murray. Against Blazers he could and i dont believe that an old, hurt CP3 that is overloaded on offense cant stop him. Morris could be up for a huge series.



Granted Denver is depleted and Malone is a subpar coach so i can see these series going both ways.

[IamBBAnalysis]

I don't understand all these Portland-Phoenix comparisons. These 2 teams aren't similar at all.

Portland had one of the worst defenses in the history of the NBA. The Suns had a top-6 defense in the league whole season.

Portland has a heliocentric offensive system with one player doing EVERYTHING on that end. The Suns offense is predicated on ball movement and player movement. The Suns were 1st in the league in assist ratio, the Blazers were last.

Good questions. In Den-Por series we used this forum to find out more about opposing team. Portland fans helped a lot. What I learned about their team and their defense, was the fact that you couldn't look at their season to make conclusions about their team in playoffs. They had a lot of injuries to their main players during the season, and were fighting to be even in position to make a run for playoffs. Their defense is one story with Nurkic, and totally different with Kanter. Their team was at their best entering playoffs. Their defense was terible over the season but when they got all of their players back they were in the middle of the pack. 18th in DEFRTG since 3/31/2021 in last 26 games.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&DateFrom=03%2F31%2F2021

What I find interesting here is the fact that Phoenix defense was 24th in the same period. What is the reason for that?

About Portland offense they used a lot of pnr's with Dame and Nurkic. Both of them were good at hitting shooters in the corner if defense rotate. Nurk averaged 3.4 ast. Thay had 7 players shooting better than 38% from 3, as a team they were hitting 16 3s per game on 38%.

I can answer the Suns part. They got tired and/or complacent. They stopped trying as hard. But once the playoffs started that changed quickly. They have been playing a consistent brand of defense now with stretches of complete lock down. But the Lakers were a weak offensive team without AD.

My impression of this series is that people are underestimating the Suns defense. However, Denver has one big advantage if they can get Ayton into foul trouble.