Congratulations to Jokic But Embiid would’ve Won if he Played More Games.

[TheAlanParsons]

Mmm hmm...

[gorz]

LeBron would have likely gotten MVP had he not been injured. Just saying.

Lebron wasn't playing anyhere near the level of embiid jokic curry or lillard.

[Woodsanity]

I mean he has 175 points in 168 minutes this post season. He’s averaging 29 in 27 minutes.

Also Jokic this post season has a PER of 27

Joel this post season has a PER of 33

Completely dominated tonight with 40 and 14. Jokic is very fortunate that Joel missed enough games to not win MVP.

Nonetheless both had historically good seasons. I prefer what Joel is doing.

I actually used to like Embiid but foolish Embiid stans like you make him unlikable sadly.

There is no such thing as a healthy Embiid who is worse numbers wise than Jokic overall in the RS and PS anyway. He has 0 healthy seasons.

Jokic 2021 PER=31.3, Embiid 30.3 not to mention Embiid played 25% fewer games than Jokic. HUGE disadvantage, its not even close overall.

Embiid 2020 playoffs without the "overrated bum" (according to posters here and many Embiid stans) Ben Simmons = Swept by sub-par Celtics team. 2021 playoffs, good numbers I admit but nothing unexpected so far. They should have swept the Wizards and be up 2-0 against the Hawks with the talent disparity.

Jokic 2020 playoffs= WCF, 2021 playoffs missing 2 starters and 1 bench player= 4-2 win over Blazers. If he got swept like Embiid did how badly would people have trashed him?

And never ever forget 2019 when Embiid got outplayed by freaking Siakim.

Siakim 19.4 ppg on 44 FG% vs Embiid 17.6 on 37 FG%. 37% for a big man

[BenoUdrihFTL]

No chance. Embiid had a great year, but even if he played every single game, he could not match up with Jokic's historic season. Jokic had one of the best seasons in NBA history, as discussed here:

viewtopic.php?p=91056251#p91056251

No shame in being 2nd to Jokic this year. It's Jokic's year (regular season), and no one else is close. Embiid had no case, nor did Steph, etc.

Great info. Should also include that that Jokic played the 3rd most mins in the NBA this season. So he's a historically elite per minute/possession beast that played more minutes than any other superstar. In terms of total season production there was no one close to Jokic

[Lou_23]

Embiid was the favourite before the injury. FACT. He won the narrative.

Congratulations to Jokic, he deserved the award.

[ChinaInc]

I mean he has 175 points in 168 minutes this post season. He’s averaging 29 in 27 minutes.

Also Jokic this post season has a PER of 27

Joel this post season has a PER of 33

Completely dominated tonight with 40 and 14. Jokic is very fortunate that Joel missed enough games to not win MVP.

Nonetheless both had historically good seasons. I prefer what Joel is doing.

I actually used to like Embiid but foolish Embiid stans like you make him unlikable sadly.

There is no such thing as a healthy Embiid who is worse numbers wise than Jokic overall in the RS and PS anyway. He has 0 healthy seasons.

Jokic 2021 PER=31.3, Embiid 30.3 not to mention Embiid played 25% fewer games than Jokic. HUGE disadvantage, its not even close overall.

Embiid 2020 playoffs without the "overrated bum" (according to posters here and many Embiid stans) Ben Simmons = Swept by sub-par Celtics team. 2021 playoffs, good numbers I admit but nothing unexpected so far. They should have swept the Wizards and be up 2-0 against the Hawks with the talent disparity.

Jokic 2020 playoffs= WCF, 2021 playoffs missing 2 starters and 1 bench player= 4-2 win over Blazers. If he got swept like Embiid did how badly would people have trashed him?

And never ever forget 2019 when Embiid got outplayed by freaking Siakim.

Siakim 19.4 ppg on 44 FG% vs Embiid 17.6 on 37 FG%. 37% for a big man

Both players have plenty of skeletons in their closets in regards to first round exits.

[Richard Miller]

Embiid was the favourite before the injury. FACT. He would have won the narrative.

Nope, it was LeBron who was leading the first straw poll by a margin and he would've won the narrative too most likely if he played the entire season.

[Lou_23]

Embiid was the favourite before the injury. FACT. He would have won the narrative.

Nope, it was LeBron who was leading the first straw poll by a margin and he would've won the narrative too most likely if he played the entire season.

Maybe with Davis healthy

[ChinaInc]

Embiid was the favourite before the injury. FACT. He would have won the narrative.

Nope, it was LeBron who was leading the first straw poll by a margin and he would've won the narrative too most likely if he played the entire season.

Then realgm would need to take to the streets to stop the steal because no way no how did Lebron deserve MVP. He is behind Curry let alone Jokic and Embiid

[maxpower8888]

Jokic was better in TS%, BPM, PER, NetRtg, WS/48 on a lesser USG%. Even if Embiid played every single game like Joker, Joker still would have been MVP. The only thing Embiid had over Jokic was his team's record, they only had 2 more wins than the Nuggets.

[binjumper]

Embiid was the favourite before the injury. FACT. He would have won the narrative.

Nope, it was LeBron who was leading the first straw poll by a margin and he would've won the narrative too most likely if he played the entire season.

Maybe with Davis healthy

funny lebron tried to ride AD into the playoffs. guess that didn't pay off.

[Richard Miller]

Embiid was the favourite before the injury. FACT. He would have won the narrative.

Nope, it was LeBron who was leading the first straw poll by a margin and he would've won the narrative too most likely if he played the entire season.

Then realgm would need to take to the streets to stop the steal because no way no how did Lebron deserve MVP. He is behind Curry let alone Jokic and Embiid

Before the injury he had the most 1st place votes (53 LBJ / 23 Joel / 18 Jok)

[eyeatoma]

i think you're missing the context....let me clarify....for me the reason why i think embiid didn't make more of a mvp push was because he missed games....so in this case it's not so much about joker being on the court it's moreso about embiid not being on the court enough....i think all my synapses are working....my brain cells seem to be in working order.....The phrase fits the situation...sue me

I understand what you meant, and it's still an asinine statement. Missing games sure (it's a ridiculous reason for the media not to award him the MVP but many seem to think so. I don't agree with it, but w/e), but, "availability is the best ability" is just a ridiculous statement that makes zero sense, with or without context. It's something that ESPN, and the media came up with and it was dumb then and it's dumb now.

It's not a hard concept for me to understand, you could pass like stockton....score like Jordan....be built like lebron but none of that matters if you're never on the court....That becomes the narrative, we've seen it over the course of the NBA...For as skilled as Grant Hill was what became the narrative of his career? Always injured....it makes zero sense to you....really?

He's not always injured. He had a freak injury in the middle of the season because a Wizards scrub pushed him. The only time that he got injured on his own accord this year was against the Wizards in the playoffs. He's playing through that injury.

For all intents and purposes Embiid has not had a major injury since the 2 seasons he missed when he joined the league because of his navicular bone fracture. The narrative that he is injury prone is lazy. The bigger issue with him was always conditioning.

He had a meniscus tear his rookier year, and hasn't had one since this year. He fractured his orbital bone because Markelle Fultz's shoulder ran into his face. Embiid has been very unlucky with freak injuries. In general though he is healthy.

He did everything he needed to do this year, as far as conditioning goes. Because of that he has played at an MVP level. I'd much rather debate Jokic versus Embiid using real game comparisons, rather than, the idiotic, "best ability is availability catch phrase". I completely disagree with the assumption that Jokic would have still won the MVP if Embiid didn't miss those 10 games. They were neck and neck most of the season and Embiid had taken the lead at all-star break.

Maybe do a better job finding out what injury prone means. Derrick Rose, injury prone. Grant HIll, injury prone. Anthony Davis, injury prone. Joel Embiid, poor conditioning except for this season, and then a couple of menisci tears. Not injury prone.

[eyeatoma]

Nope, it was LeBron who was leading the first straw poll by a margin and he would've won the narrative too most likely if he played the entire season.

Then realgm would need to take to the streets to stop the steal because no way no how did Lebron deserve MVP. He is behind Curry let alone Jokic and Embiid

Before the injury he had the most 1st place votes (53 LBJ / 23 Joel / 18 Jok)

Embiid was the vegas and media favorite at all star break.

[eyeatoma]

Jokic was better in TS%, BPM, PER, NetRtg, WS/48 on a lesser USG%. Even if Embiid played every single game like Joker, Joker still would have been MVP. The only thing Embiid had over Jokic was his team's record, they only had 2 more wins than the Nuggets.

Embiid plays both sides of the court. MVP level offense, DPOY level defense. His PER was better than Jokic' for most of the season. He leads the league in getting to the line, has an elite mid ranger jumper, is the most dominant offensive force in the league and his team had the best record in the east. He absolutely would have won the MVP had he not missed those 10 games.

[maxpower8888]

Jokic was better in TS%, BPM, PER, NetRtg, WS/48 on a lesser USG%. Even if Embiid played every single game like Joker, Joker still would have been MVP. The only thing Embiid had over Jokic was his team's record, they only had 2 more wins than the Nuggets.

Embiid plays both sides of the court. MVP level offense, DPOY level defense. His PER was better than Jokic' for most of the season. He leads the league in getting to the line, has an elite mid ranger jumper, is the most dominant offensive force in the league and his team had the best record in the east. He absolutely would have won the MVP had he not missed those 10 games.

His PER was not better than Jokic's for most of the season, only early on. And with all those things you mentioned, Jokic is still a bigger impact than Embiid, and he would have been MVP regardless.

[eyeatoma]

Jokic was better in TS%, BPM, PER, NetRtg, WS/48 on a lesser USG%. Even if Embiid played every single game like Joker, Joker still would have been MVP. The only thing Embiid had over Jokic was his team's record, they only had 2 more wins than the Nuggets.

Embiid plays both sides of the court. MVP level offense, DPOY level defense. His PER was better than Jokic' for most of the season. He leads the league in getting to the line, has an elite mid ranger jumper, is the most dominant offensive force in the league and his team had the best record in the east. He absolutely would have won the MVP had he not missed those 10 games.

His PER was not better than Jokic's for most of the season, only early on. And with all those things you mentioned, Jokic is still a bigger impact than Embiid, and he would have been MVP regardless.

Lol yes it was.

[maxpower8888]

Embiid plays both sides of the court. MVP level offense, DPOY level defense. His PER was better than Jokic' for most of the season. He leads the league in getting to the line, has an elite mid ranger jumper, is the most dominant offensive force in the league and his team had the best record in the east. He absolutely would have won the MVP had he not missed those 10 games.

His PER was not better than Jokic's for most of the season, only early on. And with all those things you mentioned, Jokic is still a bigger impact than Embiid, and he would have been MVP regardless.

Lol yes it was.

Maybe if you're using ESPN's PER, but for actual PER no it wasn't.

[The_Hater]

I mean he has 175 points in 168 minutes this post season. He’s averaging 29 in 27 minutes.

Also Jokic this post season has a PER of 27

Joel this post season has a PER of 33

Completely dominated tonight with 40 and 14. Jokic is very fortunate that Joel missed enough games to not win MVP.

Nonetheless both had historically good seasons. I prefer what Joel is doing.

Embiid could have won, not would have won.

There are a lot of solid arguments one could make for Embiid here, but I don’t think using PER is one of them.

[denvers_finest]

Embiid plays both sides of the court. MVP level offense, DPOY level defense. His PER was better than Jokic' for most of the season. He leads the league in getting to the line, has an elite mid ranger jumper, is the most dominant offensive force in the league and his team had the best record in the east. He absolutely would have won the MVP had he not missed those 10 games.

Embiid played 51 games this year, so he missed 21 games, not 10.

21 games accounts for 29% of the season in a 72 game season. That's a lot of missed games

Embiid did miss those games, so you can't just magically pretend he didn't

Its always interesting how people assume Embiid would have played at the exact same level if he played all of those 21 games he missed, and that he wouldn't have had some effects of fatigue from playing more, playing b2bs, etc. We'll never know, of course, because Embiid didn't actually play a full season (and never has).

PER is a full season stat, so even if Joel's was better than Joker's for most of the season (which I don't think is true), does that really matter? Joker finished with a better PER. Period.

All of the arguments you posted (plays both sides of the court, elite mid range jumper, most dominant offensive force in the league, etc.) all seem very subjective. Any actual stats to back that up, or are we all just to take your work for it? Asking for a friend.