Who has the brighter future? Knicks or Bulls?

[JXL]

Don't know why this is a debate when OP just put the question out there, yet the Bulls are ahead? Are we sure we're reading the question right?

[symbiotic]

Patrick Williams is a potential superstar.

[jbk1234]

The Knicks.
All of their contracts minus Fournier, are tradable and have their picks.

I'm not sure Rose is all that tradeable and it doesn't take a lot of imagination to foresee a scenario where Randle's trade value goes negative on his deal.

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[baldur]

Bulls best player is Lavine, and Knicks best player is Randle, I don’t see someone on their rosters set to surpass them. Hard to argue either has a bright future until that changes.

With that said, a lot easier to live with Lavine and he excited about rue Bulls versus a team built around someone like Randle that has such glaring weaknesses that are so easily exposed once teams actually game plan. Til that happens Randle as your premiere centerpiece is a perfect way to get you firmly on the treadmill. Not good enough to be a centerpiece, and without the skill set to be a complimentary player when someone better comes along.

Yeah its kinda like when you best player is 36 years old.

Still better than lavine and randle combined.

[cgf]

I didn't really think he was worth mentioning yet. 9 ppg 4.5 rpg 10.53PER

To be fair people love Mitchell Robinson too and say he's an all star and I didn't exactly heavily sell him and he's giving you 8 and 8 on 17 per with his high block rate.

But yeah Patrick Williams is the exact type of player as to why I didn't label Robinson as a core part of the comparison.

It's because those kids are elite defensive talents already and...at least in Williams' case...they have interesting potential offensively. Less so with mitch, who may be an elite rim-runner/roll-man, but isn't likely to ever be much more than a lob threat offensively.

Noel did well for us, but he was a clear step down from Robinson. Not only because he (like Payton) contributed nothing offensively, but also because he's just not as good defensively as Robinson. Not as strong when dealing with bigger bigs, and not as quick/long when switched onto little guys, dealing with the PnR, or defending in space.

Williams wasn't as much of a defensive anchor for the Bulls...but he was a rookie & his offensive game showed flashes of maturity that I couldn't help but be intrigued by. Would've really loved to have him next to RJ for the next decade if that draft had played out differently.



As for the thread. It's a toss up, the bulls have more talent on paper & might be closer to breaking into that next tier if the stars align for them next season...at least unless Derrick tells Kemba about the fountain of youth...but we have the better defensive talent & identity, with more flexibility & assets moving forward.

Although a big swing factor will also be Julius, if that atlanta series was just the moment getting to him & he'll come back prepared for that intensity this season, that's one thing & it's a toss up in the short- & long-term...flexibility & picks don't mean s*** if you squander them...if it was Atlanta laying out a blueprint for how to stifle Randle, that he can not adjust to, then that changes things

Barrett & Williams' development could really swing this either way as well, but I'm really high on both players for their combination of tools, intelligence, & drive...so don't wanna predict either one significantly outperforming the other and hope that over the next 5-10 years we have plenty of debates about the two of them & All-NBA placement.

Noel is a much better defender than Robinson. He lead the league in Dbpm. He's a top five defender in the game

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Lies, damn lies, and stastistics...and all that.

Ignoring all of the known shortcomings of that stat; Robinson was significantly better than Noel last season, but the team improved as a whole through the course of the season...even after Mitch got hurt. So Noel's #s are inflated by having a larger share of his PT coming once the team had fully gelled, while Robinson's came while the team was still figuring out what Thibs wanted them to do & so had to rely a lot more on Mitch to bail them out.

You're just not going to find many people who watched much of the knicks last season who will agree with your assessment of Noel v Robinson. Mitch was better at handling bigger centers, the PNR, and was an asset offensively, rather than another liability

[PlayerUp]

This thread will quickly change if the Bulls team clicks chemistry wise.

With all that said, this is the 1st time in many years that the Lakers, Knicks and Bulls all have winning teams which is really good for the NBA.

[RHODEY]

Bulls best player is Lavine, and Knicks best player is Randle, I don’t see someone on their rosters set to surpass them. Hard to argue either has a bright future until that changes.

With that said, a lot easier to live with Lavine and he excited about rue Bulls versus a team built around someone like Randle that has such glaring weaknesses that are so easily exposed once teams actually game plan. Til that happens Randle as your premiere centerpiece is a perfect way to get you firmly on the treadmill. Not good enough to be a centerpiece, and without the skill set to be a complimentary player when someone better comes along.

Yeah its kinda like when you best player is 36 years old.

Still better than lavine and randle combined.

First round exit...not really better

[RHODEY]

This thread will quickly change if the Bulls team clicks chemistry wise.

With all that said, this is the 1st time in many years that the Lakers, Knicks and Bulls all have winning teams which is really good for the NBA.

Bulls arent technically a winning team until they...win.

[blueNorange]

21 year old RJ Barret is interesting, but will he ever be better than a 26 year old Lavine? Extremely unlikely

well since it took lavine 5 years to become a legit 20+ ppg scorer, i think it's unfair to compare the two.

you're suggesting rj isn't going to grow much, which is silly. i also bet you didn't think rj would ever be a 40% 3pt shooter, or were you the only that thought it'd be possible? -- lavine is better right now, could honestly still be better in the future, but rj has way more upside and if you prefer having a 2 way player vs a defensive liability, some would lean rj barrett.

"extremely unlikely"

[Dez]

21 year old RJ Barret is interesting, but will he ever be better than a 26 year old Lavine? Extremely unlikely

well since it took lavine 5 years to become a legit 20+ ppg scorer, i think it's unfair to compare the two.

you're suggesting rj isn't going to grow much, which is silly. i also bet you didn't think rj would ever be a 40% 3pt shooter, or were you the only that thought it'd be possible? -- lavine is better right now, could honestly still be better in the future, but rj has way more upside and if you prefer having a 2 way player vs a defensive liability, some would lean rj barrett.

"extremely unlikely"

LaVine isn't a defensive liability and RJ Barrett isn't a two way player.

[Bruin]

I’m really high on Patrick Williams and not really that high in any of the Knicks young guys as much

RJ and Quickley are nice but I see Williams as an elite 2 way star in the future

So Bulls for me

[Rockazoids]

21 year old RJ Barret is interesting, but will he ever be better than a 26 year old Lavine? Extremely unlikely

Well I don't know about that.
Barrett is one of only eight players in NBA history to tally more than 2,000 points, 500 rebounds and 300 assists before celebrating his 21st birthday. The other seven guys on this list: Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady, Carmelo Anthony, LeBron James,
Luka Doncic, and Kevin Durant.

[iLLmatic860]

21 year old RJ Barret is interesting, but will he ever be better than a 26 year old Lavine? Extremely unlikely

well since it took lavine 5 years to become a legit 20+ ppg scorer, i think it's unfair to compare the two.

you're suggesting rj isn't going to grow much, which is silly. i also bet you didn't think rj would ever be a 40% 3pt shooter, or were you the only that thought it'd be possible? -- lavine is better right now, could honestly still be better in the future, but rj has way more upside and if you prefer having a 2 way player vs a defensive liability, some would lean rj barrett.

"extremely unlikely"

LaVine isn't a defensive liability and RJ Barrett isn't a two way player.

Sure not yet but Rj has shown lots of potential on the defensive end. Some nights Thibs even trusted him enough to guard the opposing teams best players.

[FreeSpiritNY]

I’m really high on Patrick Williams and not really that high in any of the Knicks young guys as much

RJ and Quickley are nice but I see Williams as an elite 2 way star in the future

So Bulls for me

You drinking that preseason drank drank I see.

If you had rj you would be super hype to have a 19/20 year old scoring 18ppg on 41% 3pt.

He hasn’t even scratched his potential yet.

[celticfan42487]

21 year old RJ Barret is interesting, but will he ever be better than a 26 year old Lavine? Extremely unlikely

Well I don't know about that.
Barrett is one of only eight players in NBA history to tally more than 2,000 points, 500 rebounds and 300 assists before celebrating his 21st birthday. The other seven guys on this list: Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady, Carmelo Anthony, LeBron James,
Luka Doncic, and Kevin Durant.

Cool, what's the list of players that have averaged at least 27 ppg 50% fg and 40% from 3 in a season?

Zach isn't a slouch in those rebounds and assists areas either, he's average 4 or more from both cats for years now.

It's the 2020s, people need to stop being sensitive about comparisons.

And players put up stats fast these days but one stat that remains is the league always has many players with potential but only a few players get selected to the all-star team in a given season.

I'm not comparing RJ Barret to you, or saying he doesn't have potential. Just projecting on likelihood of outcomes.

[Dez]

well since it took lavine 5 years to become a legit 20+ ppg scorer, i think it's unfair to compare the two.

you're suggesting rj isn't going to grow much, which is silly. i also bet you didn't think rj would ever be a 40% 3pt shooter, or were you the only that thought it'd be possible? -- lavine is better right now, could honestly still be better in the future, but rj has way more upside and if you prefer having a 2 way player vs a defensive liability, some would lean rj barrett.

"extremely unlikely"

LaVine isn't a defensive liability and RJ Barrett isn't a two way player.

Sure not yet but Rj has shown lots of potential on the defensive end. Some nights Thibs even trusted him enough to guard the opposing teams best players.

I was more talking about his completely inefficient offensive game, even with his improved 3 point shot he was still well below average.

[Rockazoids]

the Bulls don't have a future they have a present. they'll be a good team but literally no one on their roster is primed to make a significant leap like that

Patrick Williams who? - 19
Lonzo Ball who? - 23
Coby White who? - 21

Bulls have lost 2 protected 1st Rd Picks and people say they have no room to grow despite having a 2022, 2024, 2026, 2027, 2028, 2029 1st Rd Picks coming up. Then they'll also get back assets once the Lauri Markkanen trade is completed. They'll perfectly fine on assets and low 2nd Rd Picks which they would have here can be bought for cash considerations.

The Knicks have
Miles McBride - 21
R.J. Barrett - 21
Immanuel Quickley - 22
Jericho Sims - 22
Obi Toppin - 23
Mitchell Robinson - 23
They have these young guys & all their 1st Rd Pk too.
Also lets not forget the great 22 yr old Kevin Knox

[RHODEY]

21 year old RJ Barret is interesting, but will he ever be better than a 26 year old Lavine? Extremely unlikely

Well I don't know about that.
Barrett is one of only eight players in NBA history to tally more than 2,000 points, 500 rebounds and 300 assists before celebrating his 21st birthday. The other seven guys on this list: Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady, Carmelo Anthony, LeBron James,
Luka Doncic, and Kevin Durant.

Cool, what's the list of players that have averaged at least 27 ppg 50% fg and 40% from 3 in a season?

Zach isn't a slouch in those rebounds and assists areas either, he's average 4 or more from both cats for years now.

It's the 2020s, people need to stop being sensitive about comparisons.

And players put up stats fast these days but one stat that remains is the league always has many players with potential but only a few players get selected to the all-star team in a given season.

I'm not comparing RJ Barret to you, or saying he doesn't have potential. Just projecting on likelihood of outcomes.

For a losing team? Too many to name

[PlayerUp]

the Bulls don't have a future they have a present. they'll be a good team but literally no one on their roster is primed to make a significant leap like that

Patrick Williams who? - 19
Lonzo Ball who? - 23
Coby White who? - 21

Bulls have lost 2 protected 1st Rd Picks and people say they have no room to grow despite having a 2022, 2024, 2026, 2027, 2028, 2029 1st Rd Picks coming up. Then they'll also get back assets once the Lauri Markkanen trade is completed. They'll perfectly fine on assets and low 2nd Rd Picks which they would have here can be bought for cash considerations.

The Knicks have
Miles McBride - 21
R.J. Barrett - 21
Immanuel Quickley - 22
Jericho Sims - 22
Obi Toppin - 23
Mitchell Robinson - 23
They have these young guys & all their 1st Rd Pk too.
Also lets not forget the great 22 yr old Kevin Knox

Half the guys you mentioned above have no real potential in this league. The 3 I mentioned do and are all Top 7 picks in the 2017, 2019, 2020 drafts. If however you want to mention young talent then the Bulls have other players as well:

Tony Bradley - 23
Troy Brown - 22
Ayo Dosunmu - 21
Devon Dotson - 22
Marko Simonovic - 21

Do any of these 5 have potential to stick in the NBA, who knows? Why I didn't mention them.

7 of the 12 players on the Bulls roster currently are under 23 years old. Bulls also have 3 roster spots open, 1 2 way contract open and pending on what to do with Lauri Markkanen.

Bulls are perfectly fine with young talent and have 4 roster spots open to add more.

[PlayerUp]

21 year old RJ Barret is interesting, but will he ever be better than a 26 year old Lavine? Extremely unlikely

Well I don't know about that.
Barrett is one of only eight players in NBA history to tally more than 2,000 points, 500 rebounds and 300 assists before celebrating his 21st birthday. The other seven guys on this list: Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady, Carmelo Anthony, LeBron James,
Luka Doncic, and Kevin Durant.

More likely than not RJ Barrett will never get to the level of Lavine. Could he? Sure. Will he? Doubtful.