Why can't the Timberwolves put something good together?

[HiRez]

They probably start their dominance tonight against the hapless Warriors.

But yeah, it's all about bad ownership, that's usually what keeps many teams with loads of prime draft picks spanning years from ever breaking out of the bottom.

The Warriors were transformed not because they got Stephen Curry (though he helped), but because ownership transferred from Chris Cohan to Joe Lacob. Lacob made spending money a non-issue and upgraded the entire staff, including swooping in and grabbing Steve Kerr in the process of signing with the Knicks. Everything else flows from there but it has to start at the top. Bad owners manage to screw up even the best situation.

[BostonCouchGM]

They probably start their dominance tonight against the hapless Warriors.

But yeah, it's all about bad ownership, that's usually what keeps many teams with loads of prime draft picks spanning years from ever breaking out of the bottom.

The Warriors were transformed not because they got Stephen Curry (though he helped), but because ownership transferred from Chris Cohan to Joe Lacob. Lacob made spending money a non-issue and upgraded the entire staff, including swooping in and grabbing Steve Kerr in the process of signing with the Knicks. Everything else flows from there but it has to start at the top. Bad owners manage to screw up even the best situation.

nah, their fortunes 100% changed because they drafted Steph, then Klay, then Green and Barnes in the same draft and all were able to develop together. That's extremely rare. Too many teams, bad owners or not, get impatient if they can put together two consecutive good drafts let alone more.

Almost all the great teams were built through the draft with multiple key pieces taken over a 3-4 year period.

Celtics-Maxwell, Bird, McHale, Ainge
Lakers-Magic, Worthy, Cooper, Scott, Rambis
Spurs-Duncan, Parker, Ginobili
Bulls-MJ, Pippen, Grant, Armstrong, Kukoc

even recent teams like the Raptors and Bucks built through the draft, though obviously key pieces came and went along the way

Bucks-Middleton, Giannis, Brogdon
Raptors-FVV, OG, Siakam, DeRozan

just look at my Celtics. They were rebuilding with help from the Nets and in consecutive drafts took Smart, Rozier, Brown, Tatum and Williams and THAT squad took them to the ECF. Then, instead of continuing to build through the draft, armed with the #8 pick in the 2018 draft, they traded for Kyrie. They could have added SGA or MPJ to that young group and built a dynasty. Instead, the rest is history. And even now, instead of playing and developing Pritchard and Nesmith, they went out and got inferior veterans at their positions that steal minutes, touches and development time they could be getting.

[a8bil]

LOL.

Please list those names.

There's Butler for one season... when they made the playoffs... and... ummm... errrr.... ummmmm.... ?




[Edit: Just realized you also wrote Towns is basically Kyle Korver. Now I realize you're trying hard to be THAT guy.]

Okay, I exaggerated but only to make a point. In the last 3 years, KAT's offense has increasingly moved to the perimeter...40% of his shots come from 3 pt range, and 90% of those are assisted, i.e., he's a catch and shoot 3 pt shooter. A good one, but so was Korver. KAT doesn't have good handles. By the end of his career, Korver was over 70% catch and shoot from 3 pt, but in the core of his career (2006-2012) he was just over 40%...same as KAT has been doing for 3 years. In the paint, KAT is only a .71% scorer, KK is .61. Bottom line is, they're more similar than you think and one thing they both have in common is their defense, which is meh.

Solid NBA players that have played with KAT:

Rubio
Wiggins
Lavine
Dieng
Dunn
Teague
Rose
Butler
Covington
Saric
Beasley
Russell (tho I'm not a fan of his, at all)
Edwards

Granted, there are "stories" around some of these guys, and front office incompetence has played a large role, but the bottom line for me is that KAT is not anything more than a complimentary player. They continue to try to build around him as if he's a number 1, which I think is and has been a mistake. Min has a keeper in Edwards. They should do everything they can to build around him ...including trading KAT if that will get them better 2 way players.

Meh. Who from this group is the 2nd best player? (obviously Butler is the only clear #1 or even #2 guy)... and Towns played a whopping 68 games with him. Other guys were starters in MN but failed to get much run elsewhere.

Rubio... Rubio had a negative VORP last year. Shot 37.4%, 38.8% and 40.2% three seasons with Towns.
Wiggins... Wiggins was considered the 2nd best player on the team for multiple seasons. 2nd best!!!
Lavine... Lavine was a young player who tore up his knee in his only slightly above average season in MN. He was nothing like the guy today.
Dieng... Dieng played in 498 games and started 204 in MN. He's played in 67 games and started 1 game since.
Dunn... dude. No.
Teague... left Minnesota and has started 18 games since.
Rose... Solid. But... bench player. Only played 51 games.
Butler... Yep. Good player. Wolves won 47 games even though Butler missed 24 games.
Covington... played in only 70 games over 2 seasons in MN.
Saric... bench player
Beasley... bench player in Denver. Back to bench player.
Russell... Is this Towns' 2nd best teammate after Butler
Edwards...Is this Towns' 2nd best teammate after Butler?

It's fine to rip Towns. He deserves it for many reasons. But doing so by saying he played with good players for years is such a misguided take.



[Note: You compare Towns to Korver because he shoots 40% of his shots behind the arc... but neglect to mention Korver took up to 80% of his shots behind the arc... ]

Actually, you must not have read my post closely. I mentioned that by the end of his career (2012 - 2020), Korver was shooting 70% (not 90% as you claim) of his shots from 3 point range, but from 2006 to 2012, the core of his career, he was shooting about 40%, just like Towns.

You pick and choose facts regarding these players, but it doesn't change the fact that they are all "solid" NBA players, and a couple are legit superstars...perhaps not at Min, but the question is, why? And why did some want out? A team built around a soft, no defense perimeter shooting center is a good place to start. When he put his future at Min contingent on getting rid of Butler, it was everything any fan needs to know. Butler has the drive to be a champion...Towns has the drive to collect a paycheck.

[a8bil]

They probably start their dominance tonight against the hapless Warriors.

But yeah, it's all about bad ownership, that's usually what keeps many teams with loads of prime draft picks spanning years from ever breaking out of the bottom.

The Warriors were transformed not because they got Stephen Curry (though he helped), but because ownership transferred from Chris Cohan to Joe Lacob. Lacob made spending money a non-issue and upgraded the entire staff, including swooping in and grabbing Steve Kerr in the process of signing with the Knicks. Everything else flows from there but it has to start at the top. Bad owners manage to screw up even the best situation.

nah, their fortunes 100% changed because they drafted Steph, then Klay, then Green and Barnes in the same draft and all were able to develop together. That's extremely rare. Too many teams, bad owners or not, get impatient if they can put together two consecutive good drafts let alone more.

Almost all the great teams were built through the draft with multiple key pieces taken over a 3-4 year period.

Celtics-Maxwell, Bird, McHale, Ainge
Lakers-Magic, Worthy, Cooper, Scott, Rambis
Spurs-Duncan, Parker, Ginobili
Bulls-MJ, Pippen, Grant, Armstrong, Kukoc

even recent teams like the Raptors and Bucks built through the draft, though obviously key pieces came and went along the way

Bucks-Middleton, Giannis, Brogdon
Raptors-FVV, OG, Siakam, DeRozan

just look at my Celtics. They were rebuilding with help from the Nets and in consecutive drafts took Smart, Rozier, Brown, Tatum and Williams and THAT squad took them to the ECF. Then, instead of continuing to build through the draft, armed with the #8 pick in the 2018 draft, they traded for Kyrie. They could have added SGA or MPJ to that young group and built a dynasty. Instead, the rest is history. And even now, instead of playing and developing Pritchard and Nesmith, they went out and got inferior veterans at their positions that steal minutes, touches and development time they could be getting.

Quality post.

[a8bil]

Update: Looney outplaying Towns at half.

[MGB8]

Wolves need to send Russell, McDaniels, First to the Sixers for Simmons. They need a defensive identity, and Beverly isn’t enough.

[thinktank]

Wolves need to send Russell, McDaniels, First to the Sixers for Simmons. They need a defensive identity, and Beverly isn’t enough.

Tell it to Morey.

[a8bil]

I have to say that they have some nice role players, and a great player to build around in Edwards. Still hate DLo's game. Still don't like Towns game.

[whatisacenter]

They probably start their dominance tonight against the hapless Warriors.

But yeah, it's all about bad ownership, that's usually what keeps many teams with loads of prime draft picks spanning years from ever breaking out of the bottom.

The Warriors were transformed not because they got Stephen Curry (though he helped), but because ownership transferred from Chris Cohan to Joe Lacob. Lacob made spending money a non-issue and upgraded the entire staff, including swooping in and grabbing Steve Kerr in the process of signing with the Knicks. Everything else flows from there but it has to start at the top. Bad owners manage to screw up even the best situation.

nah.

I can guarantee you that if Chris Cohan still owned the team the Warriors would have never won a title and Curry would have left in free agency.

[Pennebaker]

Great question. This is why they should move the franchise to Seattle.

[The411]

They probably start their dominance tonight against the hapless Warriors.

But yeah, it's all about bad ownership, that's usually what keeps many teams with loads of prime draft picks spanning years from ever breaking out of the bottom.

The Warriors were transformed not because they got Stephen Curry (though he helped), but because ownership transferred from Chris Cohan to Joe Lacob. Lacob made spending money a non-issue and upgraded the entire staff, including swooping in and grabbing Steve Kerr in the process of signing with the Knicks. Everything else flows from there but it has to start at the top. Bad owners manage to screw up even the best situation.

nah.

I can guarantee you that if Chris Cohan still owned the team the Warriors would have never won a title and Curry would have left in free agency.

1000x this.

The TWolves remind me a lot of the Cohan Warriors and pre-Cohan Warriors. The Warriors did a lot of dumb things prior to the Lacob era.

1980 Trading Parish and #3 pick (Kevin Mchale) for #1 pick (Joe Barry Carroll) and #13 (Ricky Brown)

1982 Lester conner at #14 over Ricky Pierce

1983 Russell Cross at #6 over Thurl Bailey, Dale Ellis, Jeff Malone, Derek Harper, Clyde Drexler

1986 Chris Washburn at #3 over Chuck Person, Ron Harper, Dell Curry Dennis Rodman, Jeff Hornacek

1987 Tellis Frank #14 over Mark Jackson

1991 Trading future Hof Mitch Richmond at age 25 for Billy Owens

1994 #1 overall pick Chris Webber to Bullets for Tom Gugliotta and three FRPS

1994 Cliff Rozier at #16 over Aaron McKie, Wesley Person

1995 Joe Smith #1 (bad luck) over Rasheed Wallace, Kevin Garnett

1996 Todd Fuller at #11 over Kobe Bryant (don't think Kobe was signing anywhere but for the Lakers), Steve Nash, Jermaine O'Neal

1997 Adonal Foyle at #8 over Tracy McGrady (#9)

1998 Traded Vince Carter for Antawn Jamison (while this was a pre-arranged deal warriors had to move up to make the move when they could have had Jamison for nothing or possibly Carter had Toronto traded the pick or gone with Jamison

1999 Jeff Foster at #21 over AK47 and Manu

2000 Traded #7 pick for John Starks (33 years old)
Missed out on Jamal Crawford, Michael Redd

2001 Troy Murphy #14 over #19 Zach Randolph #28 Tony Parker

2002 Mike Dunleavy at #3 over Amar'e at #9

2003 Mikael Petrus at #11 over David West (#18)

2004 Andris Biendrins at #11 over Josh Smith (#17), Jameer Nelson (#20)

2005 Ike Diogu at #9 over Danny Granger (#17), David Lee (#30)

2006 Patrick O'Bryant at #9 over J.J Reddick (#11) Rajon Rando (#21), Kyle Lowry (#24), PJ Tucker (#35), Paul Milsap (#47)

2008 Anthony Randolph at #14 over Nicholas Batum (#25) Deandre Jordan (#35)

[DroseReturnChi]

Wolves need to send Russell, McDaniels, First to the Sixers for Simmons. They need a defensive identity, and Beverly isn’t enough.

why is morey taking wolves trash and make them a powerhouse? it seems wolves owner and mgt prefer to tank every yr so let them get 10 wins for decades.

[God Squad]

Like clockwork.

Read on Twitter

[DroseReturnChi]

They probably start their dominance tonight against the hapless Warriors.

But yeah, it's all about bad ownership, that's usually what keeps many teams with loads of prime draft picks spanning years from ever breaking out of the bottom.

The Warriors were transformed not because they got Stephen Curry (though he helped), but because ownership transferred from Chris Cohan to Joe Lacob. Lacob made spending money a non-issue and upgraded the entire staff, including swooping in and grabbing Steve Kerr in the process of signing with the Knicks. Everything else flows from there but it has to start at the top. Bad owners manage to screw up even the best situation.

bad ownership is only half the answer. plenty of bad owner teams like bulls and suns are a powerhouse.
good gming is what matters the most and you dont need to spend 400mil like warriors to get to 2nd round.
drafting a lebron james type talent can cure all of these disease and cavs snatched a recent one in mobley who alone is a playoff 1st rounder. the owner knows hes terrible which is why he is hard tank mode every yr but the talent just all sucks mostly loser mentality.
silver should grant them number 1 pick for next decade for the sake of experimentation if they can win a chip.

[HiRez]

They probably start their dominance tonight against the hapless Warriors.

But yeah, it's all about bad ownership, that's usually what keeps many teams with loads of prime draft picks spanning years from ever breaking out of the bottom.

The Warriors were transformed not because they got Stephen Curry (though he helped), but because ownership transferred from Chris Cohan to Joe Lacob. Lacob made spending money a non-issue and upgraded the entire staff, including swooping in and grabbing Steve Kerr in the process of signing with the Knicks. Everything else flows from there but it has to start at the top. Bad owners manage to screw up even the best situation.

bad ownership is only half the answer. plenty of bad owner teams like bulls and suns are a powerhouse.
good gming is what matters the most and you dont need to spend 400mil like warriors to get to 2nd round.
drafting a lebron james type talent can cure all of these disease and cavs snatched a recent one in mobley who alone is a playoff 1st rounder. the owner knows hes terrible which is why he is hard tank mode every yr but the talent just all sucks mostly loser mentality.
silver should grant them number 1 pick for next decade for the sake of experimentation if they can win a chip.

Yep, but who hires the GM? The owner does. Even when they manage to hit on some talent, they eventually screw it up somehow and those players leave.

[kuclas]

Wolves need to send Russell, McDaniels, First to the Sixers for Simmons. They need a defensive identity, and Beverly isn’t enough.

No one wants Russell. Only trade wolves can make for Russell is to send back to golden state. …for Wiggins.

[kuclas]

Ant man is not the answer. I know wolves fans are high on him. Thinking he’s the next dwade. Either it the culture there. Or a sophomore slump. He will have one good game every 4 nights. But that’s expected when he gets to chuck 20-25 shots a night and figured out it’s best not to play any defense to pad the stats.

The culture is just missing in Minnesota. Someone tell Edwards he’s not efficient as towns. He’s gonna to develop lazy habits on defense like towns. Towns can’t hide on defense cause he’s at the center slot. But until Edwards towns Russell all go all in for defense rather than care about scoring. This team will continue to lose. Doesn’t matter if Edwards’s putting up 40 which he isn’t gonna to do every night. He’s gonna to give up at least 30 himself. Along with towns giving up 30 and dlo giving up 30

[LAL1947]

Ant man is not the answer. I know wolves fans are high on him. Thinking he’s the next dwade. Either it the culture there. Or a sophomore slump. He will have one good game every 4 nights. But that’s expected when he gets to chuck 20-25 shots a night and figured out it’s best not to play any defense to pad the stats.

The culture is just missing in Minnesota. Someone tell Edwards he’s not efficient as towns. He’s gonna to develop lazy habits on defense like towns. Towns can’t hide on defense cause he’s at the center slot. But until Edwards towns Russell all go all in for defense rather than care about scoring. This team will continue to lose. Doesn’t matter if Edwards’s putting up 40 which he isn’t gonna to do every night. He’s gonna to give up at least 30 himself. Along with towns giving up 30 and dlo giving up 30

An Anthony Edwards for Ben Simmons swap makes a lot of sense to me. Not sure if Minny feels the same, as they'll probably (and rightfully) value Edwards more highly than Simmons in a trade.

Beverly
D'lo / Beasley
McDaniels
Simmons
Towns

[kuclas]

Ant man is not the answer. I know wolves fans are high on him. Thinking he’s the next dwade. Either it the culture there. Or a sophomore slump. He will have one good game every 4 nights. But that’s expected when he gets to chuck 20-25 shots a night and figured out it’s best not to play any defense to pad the stats.

The culture is just missing in Minnesota. Someone tell Edwards he’s not efficient as towns. He’s gonna to develop lazy habits on defense like towns. Towns can’t hide on defense cause he’s at the center slot. But until Edwards towns Russell all go all in for defense rather than care about scoring. This team will continue to lose. Doesn’t matter if Edwards’s putting up 40 which he isn’t gonna to do every night. He’s gonna to give up at least 30 himself. Along with towns giving up 30 and dlo giving up 30

An Anthony Edwards for Ben Simmons swap makes a lot of sense to me. Not sure if Minny feels the same, as they'll probably (and rightfully) value Edwards more highly than Simmons in a trade.

Beverly
D'lo / Beasley
McDaniels
Simmons
Towns

No team. Whether they are bad or good is willing to give up their two best players. Except Portland. But Portland has norm Powell to replicate 80-90% of what CJ does. So it’s no skin off their back.

That’s the only reason there is no Simmons trade.

Ant man may be Wiggins 2.0 by the end of the season. Just watch. No defense. No rebounding. No assists. Just scores and inefficient at that.

I told everyone tyrese Maxey could average 15-17 as a rookie on a bad team with more shots. Which is what he’s averaging these days. If Maxey were on the wolves allowed to take 22-23 shots. I’m sure he would average 24-25 a night like ant man. But that’s not winning basketball.

So I’m very weary of stats padding of young players on bad teams. Ben Simmons sucks in second round of playoffs. But he does so much for sixers through regular season and first round. These young guys just haven’t gotten exposed in the playoffs. Only one was deangelo Russell who ben Simmons completely shut down in 2019 playoffs when he was with nets. And we have 7 years of Russell to know he’s a chucker as well.

[Quentin]

Ant man is not the answer. I know wolves fans are high on him. Thinking he’s the next dwade. Either it the culture there. Or a sophomore slump. He will have one good game every 4 nights. But that’s expected when he gets to chuck 20-25 shots a night and figured out it’s best not to play any defense to pad the stats.

The culture is just missing in Minnesota. Someone tell Edwards he’s not efficient as towns. He’s gonna to develop lazy habits on defense like towns. Towns can’t hide on defense cause he’s at the center slot. But until Edwards towns Russell all go all in for defense rather than care about scoring. This team will continue to lose. Doesn’t matter if Edwards’s putting up 40 which he isn’t gonna to do every night. He’s gonna to give up at least 30 himself. Along with towns giving up 30 and dlo giving up 30

An Anthony Edwards for Ben Simmons swap makes a lot of sense to me. Not sure if Minny feels the same, as they'll probably (and rightfully) value Edwards more highly than Simmons in a trade.

Beverly
D'lo / Beasley
McDaniels
Simmons
Towns

No team. Whether they are bad or good is willing to give up their two best players. Except Portland. But Portland has norm Powell to replicate 80-90% of what CJ does. So it’s no skin off their back.

That’s the only reason there is no Simmons trade.

Ant man may be Wiggins 2.0 by the end of the season. Just watch. No defense. No rebounding. No assists. Just scores and inefficient at that.

I told everyone tyrese Maxey could average 15-17 as a rookie on a bad team with more shots. Which is what he’s averaging these days. If Maxey were on the wolves allowed to take 22-23 shots. I’m sure he would average 24-25 a night like ant man. But that’s not winning basketball.

So I’m very weary of stats padding of young players on bad teams. Ben Simmons sucks in second round of playoffs. But he does so much for sixers through regular season and first round. These young guys just haven’t gotten exposed in the playoffs. Only one was deangelo Russell who ben Simmons completely shut down in 2019 playoffs when he was with nets. And we have 7 years of Russell to know he’s a chucker as well.

My god, you two.