Should Fred Van Vleet be an all-star?

[everdiso]

I think the 17-17 record hurts. There were alot of games the Raptors should of won but didn't; OKC, Pistons, Nets without Harden.

Celtics have a worse record but i bet one of tatum/brown will make it
Hawks are 16-20 and Trae Young is a lock.

Celtics somehow got TWO Allstars last year with only a .500 record.

[Harry Garris]

100%

Most of the people opposing the idea seem to either be unaware of just how good of a season he's having, or in the camp that guys should be awarded on team success or past performance. FVV has just been a better basketball player THIS year than guys like Jaylen Brown and Brad Beal. I'm sorry, I know that's not a popular opinion outside of Raptors fans.

[Big J]

HELL NO! This is a cute story, but the All Star game is for actual stars who lead their teams to wins.

lol theres some Raptors fans who wouldn't trade FVV for Simmons. As many issues as Simmons has, hes a better player than FVV.

I easily wouldnt do it, lol. Im not entirely sure Simmons is clearly a better player; a better talent, sure, but current on court impact? Not entirely clear. If he is better, he's not better enough to overcome the character gap. FVV is the leader of the Raps and one of the culture setters while Simmons is ruining Philly's season. It's a no brainer no for the Raps

Of course the Raps should do that trade. Hell, they did it before with fantastic results when they traded away high character DeFrozen for more talented head case Kawhi and his Uncle Dennis. Talent wins in this league.

[nitric0]

If record matters, then Trae shouldn't be anywhere near the allstar game.

[Duffman100]

lol theres some Raptors fans who wouldn't trade FVV for Simmons. As many issues as Simmons has, hes a better player than FVV.

I easily wouldnt do it, lol. Im not entirely sure Simmons is clearly a better player; a better talent, sure, but current on court impact? Not entirely clear. If he is better, he's not better enough to overcome the character gap. FVV is the leader of the Raps and one of the culture setters while Simmons is ruining Philly's season. It's a no brainer no for the Raps

Of course the Raps should do that trade. Hell, they did it before with fantastic results when they traded away high character DeFrozen for more talented head case Kawhi and his Uncle Dennis. Talent wins in this league.

Except Kawhi was a proven superstar and playoff performer.

I’d rather keep the guy that plays games and his a culture setter.

[bisme37]

100%

Most of the people opposing the idea seem to either be unaware of just how good of a season he's having, or in the camp that guys should be awarded on team success or past performance. FVV has just been a better basketball player THIS year than guys like Jaylen Brown and Brad Beal. I'm sorry, I know that's not a popular opinion outside of Raptors fans.

I'll be happy but kinda surprised if Jaylen makes it this year, mostly because he's missed a ton of games and the C's record isn't good.

I have no problem with Freddy Allstar. He's been awesome. So that makes one more non-Raps fans I guess.

[JN61]

We’re tied for 8th seed and just half a game back from 7th seed lol

Some of you are just spewing BS

That was their record before last night's game genius.. regardless how is he going to be selected as 20/6 guy playing huge minutes as all-star over multiple time all-stars putting up better numbers on better record teams? He is not.

Name 12 player that fit this criteria. I bet you can't.

Lavine, DeRozan, KD, Harden, Giannis, Jrue, Butler, Embiid, Allen. That's 9 players on teams seeded 1-6 with better records than the Raptors that will make the all-star team.

7-10 seeds have pretty much identical records and swap on any given night: Washington, Charlotte, Toronto, Boston. the only names even approaching the criteria of " multiple time all-stars" on these teams include Beal, Tatum, Brown, and Hayward. FVV has been better than all of them this season and has pretty much the same record as them. I'd even argue Garland over some of these names this season and would make a pretty compelling case. Just stop with the nonsense.

He doesn't fight vs 12 players... Just the backcourt, which is stacked...

[Bruin]

That was their record before last night's game genius.. regardless how is he going to be selected as 20/6 guy playing huge minutes as all-star over multiple time all-stars putting up better numbers on better record teams? He is not.

Name 12 player that fit this criteria. I bet you can't.

Lavine, DeRozan, KD, Harden, Giannis, Jrue, Butler, Embiid, Allen. That's 9 players on teams seeded 1-6 with better records than the Raptors that will make the all-star team.

7-10 seeds have pretty much identical records and swap on any given night: Washington, Charlotte, Toronto, Boston. the only names even approaching the criteria of " multiple time all-stars" on these teams include Beal, Tatum, Brown, and Hayward. FVV has been better than all of them this season and has pretty much the same record as them. I'd even argue Garland over some of these names this season and would make a pretty compelling case. Just stop with the nonsense.

He doesn't fight vs 12 players... Just the backcourt, which is stacked...

Who do you have ahead of him in backcourt players?

4 guards get in and then there’s 2 WC spots

[everdiso]

lol theres some Raptors fans who wouldn't trade FVV for Simmons. As many issues as Simmons has, hes a better player than FVV.

I easily wouldnt do it, lol. Im not entirely sure Simmons is clearly a better player; a better talent, sure, but current on court impact? Not entirely clear. If he is better, he's not better enough to overcome the character gap. FVV is the leader of the Raps and one of the culture setters while Simmons is ruining Philly's season. It's a no brainer no for the Raps

Of course the Raps should do that trade. Hell, they did it before with fantastic results when they traded away high character DeFrozen for more talented head case Kawhi and his Uncle Dennis. Talent wins in this league.

Fred is better than Simmons offensively.

And also elite defensively.

[SeattleJazzFan]

Freddy is having a terrific season and has been on a real tear lately. Last 5 games:

33 pts, 7 asts, 2 rbd, 2 steals
35/5/5/1 stl
31/9/4/1 bl/2
27/12/7/1/3
31/9/4/2

in those 5 games he shot 32/62 from 3pt and is now shooting 44/40/88 on the season

on the season Freddy is:

#1 in the NBA in minutes played
#19 in ppg
#14 in apg
#13 in steals per game
#7 in 3 pointers made
#15 in VORP

Raptors have been killed by injuries and COVID but are back to .500 now and have won 5 of 6. Most Raps fans think steady Freddy has been the best player on the team this year and deserves to be an all-star. What does the rest of the GB think?

one can argue he's having an all star season, but i'd have to know who his competition is - in terms of that type of accolade you're only as good as your competition for the given accolade.

[Fade_awayJ]

Fred league ranks, before tonight:

Raptor #5
EPM #9
TPA #15
DPM #26
Lebron #30


The question isn't whether he should make the all-star team, but which All-NBA team he should make.

[PhilBlackson]

At bare minimum he's earned SERIOUS consideration, I know when Garland has been healthy he's helped the Cavs tremendously as well so he has to be in the conversation as well especially with a substantially better record. However Fred has been dealing with more injuries etc to the roster AND according to analytics Fred is sandwiched between 2 MVP Candidates (Jokic & Curry) both guys that people say literally change the entire dynamic of their team so it's extremely difficult to say a guy having an individual season like that shouldn't be in.

But it's going to be tough as I'm sure Trae is already in with his stat stuffing (didn't say padding) despite his team's lack of success and then who do people give the nod to out of Fred & Garland?! My guess is there will obviously be guys that miss the ASG due to covid protocols and we'll see Fred make it in that route although it really shouldn't take that.

[JujitsuFlip]

based on some of the posting on the first page you would think that the Raptors were not a .500 team and nearing on the 7th seed

Yes he is playing at an All Star level

East All Stars look something like

KD
Harden
Giannis
Embiid
LaVine

Starting 5

Backups

Allen
Jimmy
LaMelo
Tatum
Freddy
Trae
DeRozan

Maybe Beal knocks Freddy out, if Beal keeps up his level of play and Wiz are still up on Raps but Fred has been better than Beal this year

Garland over FVV all day long in that scenario.

[Johnny Bball]

My guess is he will get selected by the coaches....

Yep. By someone that understands the game.

[nate33]

He is definitely in the conversation. IIRC, in the recent Zach Lowe podcast, they had it broken down as follows:

Obvious, indisputable locks to make ASG:
Durant
Giannis
Embiid
DeRozan

Extremely likely, near-locks to make it:
Levine
Young
Harden
Butler
J.Allen (or at least one Cav in this spot)

So that left 3 spots to go to one of the following:
Van Vleet
Tatum
Brown
Beal
Holiday
Garland
Sabonis
Ball
Randle

Van Vleet is arguably putting up the best numbers in this group. I think a lot depends on record. Toronto, Washington, Boston, Charlotte and New York are all around .500 and none of them have an All-Star representative. It might just boil down to whatever teams look stronger when the votes are cast. Things could get really complicated if the fans vote Kyrie in as a starter.

[ropjhk]

I think he'll get consideration but will only make it as an injury replacement. He's a fringe All Star player. Those type of players only make the all star team if their team is at the top of the standings or competition at their position is really weak or if they are replacing an injured player.

[JujitsuFlip]

Name 12 player that fit this criteria. I bet you can't.

Lavine, DeRozan, KD, Harden, Giannis, Jrue, Butler, Embiid, Allen. That's 9 players on teams seeded 1-6 with better records than the Raptors that will make the all-star team.

7-10 seeds have pretty much identical records and swap on any given night: Washington, Charlotte, Toronto, Boston. the only names even approaching the criteria of " multiple time all-stars" on these teams include Beal, Tatum, Brown, and Hayward. FVV has been better than all of them this season and has pretty much the same record as them. I'd even argue Garland over some of these names this season and would make a pretty compelling case. Just stop with the nonsense.

He doesn't fight vs 12 players... Just the backcourt, which is stacked...

Who do you have ahead of him in backcourt players?

4 guards get in and then there’s 2 WC spots

I would say Trae is a lock as a starter, both LaVine and DDR deserve to be in, as starters or otherwise. Harden most likely is in, regardless who selects him.

From there its up to 1 or 2 wild card spots and will probably go to guys like Garland, Holiday, Ball, Beal (lifetime achievement award), and potentially Brown depending where the Celtics record is by the time coaches cast their ballots for the reserves.

[Bologna Smasher]

If the Raptors can get themselves into that 6-8 range in the standings, I don't see the coaches not voting him in. May end up coming down to who has the better record between the Raptors, Hornets & Cavs. I only see one or two of VanVleet, Garland & LaMelo making it in, not all three. The stats are basically a toss up for each of them, mostly going to come down to record. I think Holiday may also end up snatching one of those spots if he keeps playing like he is.

[ForeverTFC]

He doesn't fight vs 12 players... Just the backcourt, which is stacked...

Who do you have ahead of him in backcourt players?

4 guards get in and then there’s 2 WC spots

I would say Trae is a lock as a starter, both LaVine and DDR deserve to be in, as starters or otherwise. Harden most likely is in, regardless who selects him.

From there its up to 1 or 2 wild card spots and will probably go to guys like Garland, Holiday, Ball, Beal (lifetime achievement award), and potentially Brown depending where the Celtics record is by the time coaches cast their ballots for the reserves.

Agree that Trae, DDR, Lavine and Harden are in. Holiday will also be in as Milwaukee deserves 2 all-stars and he's more deserving than Middleton.

So 1 spot left. FVV has been better than Garland, Beal, Ball and the Celtics don't deserve 2 all-stars (Tatum will get in). Again, there is no narrative that "this is not a discussion". He's very much in the running and in my opinion doesn't get in if:
- Coaches/leage give Beal his lifetime achievement award even though he doesn't deserve it this year
- Coaches/league bring in Lamelo for TV/fan purposes even though FVV has been better
- Coaches/league want to perpetuate the Boston myth with 2 all-stars even though Brown and the Celtics don't deserve 2 all-stars

If you're going by play and impact this year, FVV is an all-star in that last spot.

[JujitsuFlip]

Who do you have ahead of him in backcourt players?

4 guards get in and then there’s 2 WC spots

I would say Trae is a lock as a starter, both LaVine and DDR deserve to be in, as starters or otherwise. Harden most likely is in, regardless who selects him.

From there its up to 1 or 2 wild card spots and will probably go to guys like Garland, Holiday, Ball, Beal (lifetime achievement award), and potentially Brown depending where the Celtics record is by the time coaches cast their ballots for the reserves.

Agree that Trae, DDR, Lavine and Harden are in. Holiday will also be in as Milwaukee deserves 2 all-stars and he's more deserving than Middleton.

So 1 spot left. FVV has been better than Garland, Beal, Ball and the Celtics don't deserve 2 all-stars (Tatum will get in). Again, there is no narrative that "this is not a discussion". He's very much in the running and in my opinion doesn't get in if:
- Coaches/leage give Beal his lifetime achievement award even though he doesn't deserve it this year
- Coaches/league bring in Lamelo for TV/fan purposes even though FVV has been better
- Coaches/league want to perpetuate the Boston myth with 2 all-stars even though Brown and the Celtics don't deserve 2 all-stars

If you're going by play and impact this year, FVV is an all-star in that last spot.

If it comes down to Garland and the Cavs are fighting for home court advantage versus FVV and the Raps are fighting for a back half play-in spot... There is zero doubt in my mind Garland is the clear cut choice, especially since the game is in Cleveland.