2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 5)

[reanimator]

that's why i kind of smile when i see other rookies being pumped up and no mention of cade. opposing defenses are literally treating him like he's an all star-calibre player and yet it's other rookies that are being praised for averaging 14 PPG off of putbacks, cutting layups and wide open 3s.

Yeah, Cade + Giddey + Suggs are in tier together out of the high lotto guys when it comes to ball handling duties + unassisted offense + creation for others then its Barnes then its everyone else. Those 3 have had the most glaring efficiency struggles too. Factor in roster and its misleading comparing all the rookies 1:1.

[whitehops]

Sometimes it feels like Cade passes out of doubles almost too soon. He sees them coming and is looking to make the quick pass out before they even 100% commit. In comparison, Jokic will have two players drapped all over him and makes a great pass out.

yeah, that's where jokic's size is a huge advantage for him. he can see/throw the ball over defenses and he can protect the ball where no one else can get it.

[rate_]

Ayo Dosunmu going off:

10-12 FG | 24/4/6 | 1 TO | +15 with about 9 minutes left in the game

[MrBigShot]

Oof, why so many votes for Cade? He's been underachieving.

If you expected him to come blazing with at least 20/5/5 out of the gate like Luka sure, but otherwise not really. He's at 16/5/5 on the season. Turnovers and efficiency have been issues, as they frequently are for rookie guards, but he looks really promising in general.

[TheLand13]

He's an FSU guy and I try to track their former player's careers as much as possible. I've followed Barnes dating all the way back to HS. I was lower on him than the consensus coming out of FSU, but it's partly because it's always hard to tell how players will truly look once playing outside the confines of Hamilton's system.

Anyways, I'm a fan and have been pretty shocked at his development In such a short time. Alot of the early season buzz has seemed to die down though, and looking at his numbers over the last 15 games or so they've (especially percentages) really taken a hit. Is he battling injury, a rookie slump, or is it a fit issue next to players with simial skillsets?

you must know a lot abt barnes if you followed him since fsu. i have been saying he is a draymond clone and wont make the next step unless he drastically change his broken shot and improve his ft and 3% by at least 10%. giannis won multiple mvp without those but barnes is not even physically close to giannis even if he bulks up.

barnes has made 0 improvement since his fsu days and overrated raptors development system has been a huge disappointment. this pick might harm masais reputation of a drafting god when he projects to be 4th best player at best. picking barnes meant raptors gave up contending and signaled tanking as he is a long term project similar to wiseman.

i thought barnes was the best fit bc of raptors development system, but the more i think about it, it probably is the worst possible destination when 4 similar players that are 3 and D paying alongside with you. having too many 3and D is not a good idea in modern era you need someone like a kyrie irving who can create and iso.

I feel like the more you post, the harder it is to take you seriously.

[anotherhomer]

Feels like someone's trolling really hard

He's an FSU guy and I try to track their former player's careers as much as possible. I've followed Barnes dating all the way back to HS. I was lower on him than the consensus coming out of FSU, but it's partly because it's always hard to tell how players will truly look once playing outside the confines of Hamilton's system.

Anyways, I'm a fan and have been pretty shocked at his development In such a short time. Alot of the early season buzz has seemed to die down though, and looking at his numbers over the last 15 games or so they've (especially percentages) really taken a hit. Is he battling injury, a rookie slump, or is it a fit issue next to players with simial skillsets?

you must know a lot abt barnes if you followed him since fsu. i have been saying he is a draymond clone and wont make the next step unless he drastically change his broken shot and improve his ft and 3% by at least 10%. giannis won multiple mvp without those but barnes is not even physically close to giannis even if he bulks up.

barnes has made 0 improvement since his fsu days and overrated raptors development system has been a huge disappointment. this pick might harm masais reputation of a drafting god when he projects to be 4th best player at best. picking barnes meant raptors gave up contending and signaled tanking as he is a long term project similar to wiseman.

i thought barnes was the best fit bc of raptors development system, but the more i think about it, it probably is the worst possible destination when 4 similar players that are 3 and D paying alongside with you. having too many 3and D is not a good idea in modern era you need someone like a kyrie irving who can create and iso.

I feel like the more you post, the harder it is to take you seriously.

[The Moose]

I just watched every shot Cade attempted against the Nuggets (via nba.com boxscore) and saw nothing particularly aggressive from Denver. Sometimes Jokic would step over to protect the rim, and Cade seemed to prefer to back out and shoot a fade-away rather than attack or try to setup the lob.

The numbers don't lie. The list in the link isn't filled with random dudes. Basically all in that top 20 have been all-stars or borderline.

Go and watch the whole second half of that game. He went off in the first half so they trapped him basically every time he got the ball in the 2nd half. He's just not one to force a bunch of shots over multiple defenders so they're not exactly going to show up on an "every-shot" highlight reel. And that's just one random game.

Numbers don't lie, but they don't always say what you think they do either; and I did see him firing up fade-away mid-range jumpers rather than trying to force the action and create something better. That's not good for the efficiency numbers.

I mean, you didn't mention Cade had the lowest PPP out of the top 20? At just 0.98 PPP creating his own shot .vs. a double team is clearly a shot he should be trying to avoid taking.

Fortunately he has all the time in the world.

Except that stat isn't indicative of his PPP creating his own shot against a double team, its the average team PPP when Cade is double teamed. So it could be also a sign that the rest of the team is incapable of capitalising when Cade is double teamed. Until players around him start either hitting perimeter shots/moving off ball/being lob threats, it is smart for teams to double team him because the Pistons roster is rather inept

[JonFromVA]

The numbers don't lie. The list in the link isn't filled with random dudes. Basically all in that top 20 have been all-stars or borderline.

Go and watch the whole second half of that game. He went off in the first half so they trapped him basically every time he got the ball in the 2nd half. He's just not one to force a bunch of shots over multiple defenders so they're not exactly going to show up on an "every-shot" highlight reel. And that's just one random game.

Numbers don't lie, but they don't always say what you think they do either; and I did see him firing up fade-away mid-range jumpers rather than trying to force the action and create something better. That's not good for the efficiency numbers.

I mean, you didn't mention Cade had the lowest PPP out of the top 20? At just 0.98 PPP creating his own shot .vs. a double team is clearly a shot he should be trying to avoid taking.

Fortunately he has all the time in the world.

Except that stat isn't indicative of his PPP creating his own shot against a double team, its the average team PPP when Cade is double teamed. So it could be also a sign that the rest of the team is incapable of capitalising when Cade is double teamed. Until players around him start either hitting perimeter shots/moving off ball/being lob threats, it is smart for teams to double team him because the Pistons roster is rather inept

A true PG is a leader who gets his teammates in the best position to score. In my experience, blaming teammates is just an excuse for an inexperienced PG.

Cavs fans don't think it's a coincidence that Darius Garland started improving in his command of a game once he started playing with Rubio.

[Tripod]

A true PG is a leader who gets his teammates in the best position to score. In my experience, blaming teammates is just an excuse for an inexperienced PG.

Cavs fans don't think it's a coincidence that Darius Garland started improving in his command of a game once he started playing with Rubio.

Can someone tell FVV that.

[PrimeThyme]

His numbers also have taken a hit because ever since the Raptors got healthy, he was demoted to be the 4th/5th option on offense.
The other 4 starters all average 16+ppg and more FGA (Siakam 21ppg, FVV 22ppg, OG 19ppg, Trent 16ppg).
But yeah, pretty much everyone is shocked at how fast his game has progressed/improved. Kids special and has superstar potential IMO. He's in the right system w/ a good group of guys and I'm sure the Raptors development staff, which happens to be one of the best in the league, will be able maximize his potential on both ends of the floor.

It looks like he's getting some rest again tonight which is good to see. As far as the pecking order problem goes, it seems inevitable one of OG/Siakam gets moved. My money would be on Pascal due to the age factor and the value they should be able to get back for him on the open market. Barnes will have his chance to step into a bigger role, it's been a nice ease-in situation for him this season.

I don't see superstar as you do. I'm extremely bullish on this draft and think it's one of the best in the last 20 years for how many top 30-40 players I think are in it, but I go back and forth on how many top 10-15 superstar talents I see outside of Mobley.

Cade is second closest IMO, but I'm not ready to declare him a future superstar either. I think there's a pathway for him to be, but I'm not sure i'd put it any higher than 25-30% chance he gets there. The additional improvements guys like Mobley, Barnes, Cade, Franz, Giddey, Suggs, etc are able to make will be fascinating to track.

Then you sort of have dark horse/x factor guys out there like Green/Sengun/Kuminga who could easily pop down the line. It's an insane class, I legitimately see 8-9 potential top 40 players in it.

[The Moose]

Numbers don't lie, but they don't always say what you think they do either; and I did see him firing up fade-away mid-range jumpers rather than trying to force the action and create something better. That's not good for the efficiency numbers.

I mean, you didn't mention Cade had the lowest PPP out of the top 20? At just 0.98 PPP creating his own shot .vs. a double team is clearly a shot he should be trying to avoid taking.

Fortunately he has all the time in the world.

Except that stat isn't indicative of his PPP creating his own shot against a double team, its the average team PPP when Cade is double teamed. So it could be also a sign that the rest of the team is incapable of capitalising when Cade is double teamed. Until players around him start either hitting perimeter shots/moving off ball/being lob threats, it is smart for teams to double team him because the Pistons roster is rather inept

A true PG is a leader who gets his teammates in the best position to score. In my experience, blaming teammates is just an excuse for an inexperienced PG.

Cavs fans don't think it's a coincidence that Darius Garland started improving in his command of a game once he started playing with Rubio.

right, I agree, but thats not what we were talking about. Cade definitely still has a long way to go to be a true PG. He makes some careless mistakes but he's still learning. But the original post was about how Cade was being guarded differently to most rookies and that should be taken into account contextually when looking at his stats compared to other rookies

[7r5ur]

Disappointing and underachieving rookie Cade Cunningham with 32 points, 6 boards, 8 assists, and 4 blocks midway through the 4th against Denver. Tune in.

[GeorgeSears]

Boogie Cousins has regressed significantly. I doubt the Nuggets sign him to another 10-day contract. He's got 4 points and 6 turnovers in 14 minutes.

[SOUL]

Cade going off

[GeorgeSears]

The Nuggets just haven't been able to figure out how to deal with the non Jokic minutes. They've tried small ball, they've tried Cousins as a backup, nothing works.

[GeorgeSears]

Cunningham needs to be a little more consistent, but there's no doubt he's one of the top 2 rookies in this draft Class (along with Mobley of course).

[Phenomenonsense]

Disappointing and underachieving rookie Cade Cunningham with 32 points, 6 boards, 8 assists, and 4 blocks midway through the 4th against Denver. Tune in.

Teams are lucky he is probably the only player to have 0 FTAs through 26 shots (9 threes). He probably hasn't been fouled on a single drive.

[MrBigShot]

Cade with probably the most impressive game by a rookie tonight with 34/8/8. Bummer another big night from Jokic spoils it.

[7r5ur]

Only 2 rookies have ever had at least 34 points, 8 boards, 8 assists, and 4 blocks.

...the other is Michael Jordan.

People were calling this man a bust after his first 2 games

[JackTalkThai]

Cunningham with the best rookie performance of the year…

34 points
8 assists
8 rebounds
4 blocks
2 steals
6 3PM