Who would you prefer on your team ? Coby or Ayo?

[illuminati666]

Voted Ayo just to spite the OP

It’s ok it doesn’t matter . It doesn’t spite me. Bulls fans been accepting terrible basketball from Donovan and when I call it out I’m a troll . But those are same dude with no basketball acumen toting the sheepish board narrative .

Anybody else think Billy coaching is cool? You want him in your team? Probably only the nets would swap him out among contenders but you call this dude out they say your just a troll . Who tf is a troll ?, they are so BRAINLESS they can’t comprehend my narrative is for the team to win .

lol this guy has lost it

[DroseReturnChi]

I projected Ayo to be picked in the early 20's, was shocked that GMs didn't see how well his game could translate in the NBA. I think he's going to be a very solid player for years. Coby is good too, but as the poll would agree, Ayo is the better prospect right now.

ayo is already a better basketball player than lavine. it shows donovan trusts him the most after demar letting him play more minutes than anybody and already make final shots. ayo in day 1 already is a smarter/higher iq, better ball handler, better decision maker, more clutch, basically better at everything except scoring related. he is basically the successor of this team from chicago after mj and rose and butler if you count him.

im shocked masai thought ayo as a bust he had jrue written all over his face. awfully feels similar to jokic type steal late.
but then again 30 passed on him all of them were dumber than me.

[HotelVitale]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I think Ayo is fantastic. Let's not forget that one of his starts was when he played an entire game with a concussion and went 1-7. In the long term, I think Ayo is the better option to start over Ball. I'm just trying to be "objective" and lay out the actual stats with no spin. Even with no asterisks (rookie, 2nd round pick, injuries), the numbers are . . . fine.

Fine is all I can muster for the stats too. I actually think Ayo's non-statistical things are where he shines and what people should be basing a case for him on, esp since there are several things that make those numbers much less sweet than his boosters are letting on here:
--in games he's starting, he's playing 38 minutes per night, which would be 2nd in the whole league if he kept it up; in case it's not obvious 11/7/4 is extremely small production for 38 minutes per game--for example 11pts per 36 puts Ayo in the bottom 10% of rotation players this year, alongside only defensive specialists and guys having dreadful years
--buyer beware on the 3pt stats, even in those huge-minutes starts he's putting up about 3 3pt shots per game and he's never been a high volume shooter; a cold-shooting week or two could push the 41% down into the mid-30s, which is where he was in college
None of that is bad per se or a condemnation of him as a prospect or player, it's just that a stat-based argument for him isn't particularly strong or anything more than 'looks okay for a rook, let's wait and see where he goes from here.'

All you said is true. However I think ayo's scoring game has been oppressed with playing next to Lavine/DeRozan/vuc. He's been busy with his playmaking/defense role. When those guys were out he did step up his scoring.

Hmm, looks like Lavine and Vuc both played 35+ mpg in that game too. Seems like it was just a good game against a bad defense. Plus the game before that Lavine was out and Ayo put up all of 7pts on 2/6 shooting, though it was also against a bad team (ORL). Doesn't seem like he's regularly going off when other players aren't hoarding all the shots.

Anyway he looks good and CHI fans should be hype. Just don't think the stat argument makes him look particularly good or is a better argument than others.

[PaKii94]

Fine is all I can muster for the stats too. I actually think Ayo's non-statistical things are where he shines and what people should be basing a case for him on, esp since there are several things that make those numbers much less sweet than his boosters are letting on here:
--in games he's starting, he's playing 38 minutes per night, which would be 2nd in the whole league if he kept it up; in case it's not obvious 11/7/4 is extremely small production for 38 minutes per game--for example 11pts per 36 puts Ayo in the bottom 10% of rotation players this year, alongside only defensive specialists and guys having dreadful years
--buyer beware on the 3pt stats, even in those huge-minutes starts he's putting up about 3 3pt shots per game and he's never been a high volume shooter; a cold-shooting week or two could push the 41% down into the mid-30s, which is where he was in college
None of that is bad per se or a condemnation of him as a prospect or player, it's just that a stat-based argument for him isn't particularly strong or anything more than 'looks okay for a rook, let's wait and see where he goes from here.'

All you said is true. However I think ayo's scoring game has been oppressed with playing next to Lavine/DeRozan/vuc. He's been busy with his playmaking/defense role. When those guys were out he did step up his scoring.

Hmm, looks like Lavine and Vuc both played 35+ mpg in that game too. Seems like it was just a good game against a bad defense. Plus the game before that Lavine was out and Ayo put up all of 7pts on 2/6 shooting, though it was also against a bad team (ORL). Doesn't seem like he's regularly going off when other players aren't hoarding all the shots.

Anyway he looks good and CHI fans should be hype. Just don't think the stat argument makes him look particularly good or is a better argument than others.

Yeah he has been inconsistent. And I listed all those players but the main one I think is DeMar. He and ago get points in the same areas (mid range jumpers). We saw that with DD out. I will say I don't expect him to become a top tier scorer. But I don't think he's anemic in that necessarily

[Triple M]

Ayo with a nice little game tonight
That dime to Vuc at the end was very nice

[Mbrahv0528]

i dont even know who ayo is

Lmfao.

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[Mbrahv0528]

Ayo?

Coby White is not good. He is solid on offense but a horrible defender.

Ayo is probably below average on both sides but not a liability on either, so that makes him more impactful even though he is a rookie.

And it's only up from here for him here.

Even though they are the same age, Ayo has a higher ceiling due to superior understanding of the game of basketball.

Ayo is WAY above average defensively..I'd argue he's nearing Elite.

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[Madhouse]

Ayo?

Coby White is not good. He is solid on offense but a horrible defender.

Ayo is probably below average on both sides but not a liability on either, so that makes him more impactful even though he is a rookie.

And it's only up from here for him here.

Even though they are the same age, Ayo has a higher ceiling due to superior understanding of the game of basketball.

Ayo is WAY above average defensively..I'd argue he's nearing Elite.

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Not by any reasonable metric like I posted in this thread. But he is much better than White defensively.

[gottamakeit]

Ayo or Terrance Mann, who are you guys taking?
Ignoring contracts & age. Just considering their impact on the game.

[panthermark]

As I said early on, they are different players.

Ayo is closer to Caruso (or to an extent, Ball because of his 3pt shooting percentage, albeit at a lower volume).
White is pure 6th man type of player.

White is a better scorer (especially when hot).
Ayo is (or will be) a better all around player.
Ayo might be the best pure PG on the roster (at least in the half-court).

Both had good games tonight (in their own way).
White 16/9/5
Ayo 12/8/9

Glad we have both, sucks that we will lose one after next year.

[AKfanatic]

This is one crazy as thread to create…. To start off claiming one won’t even try to sway the results only to do exactly that a couple posts in and then to drop such nonsense like “would any other contending team be alright starting…..” while ignoring that “this contending team” is missing their starting PG, a guy that plays much of the back-up PG minutes, and the player he’s railing against is a 2nd round rookie that’s been thrust into the starting line-up not only because those two are injured, but also because the player the OP is propping up failed miserably when given first shot at the role of emergency PG.

Coby has had some nice ups, but his PG skills have been pretty awful. Ayo has been the much “headier” player. He moves the ball to the right spots much more often, and if one really wants to see the difference he’s made, one only need look at how much Vuc’s numbers improved upon Ayo being put in as the starter.

[Roger Murdock]

Isn’t 11 PER also way low below average . And worse than cobe. You have no defense here man keep it moving .

If you're using PER to make an argument (for or against) defensive players, you have already lost.

No you lost . Am rent free on you loud mouth amateurs keep it moving .

You aren't living rent free in anyone's head. People are in here genuinely laughing at your takes because they are childish and ridiculous. Nobody is threatened by your thoughts or even taking you seriously. This is one of the funniest GB threads in a while.

[HOTCARL_o]

If Ayo and Coby where free agents right now and teams had to choose one, I'd bet the majority would pick Ayo. Dude is a 6'5 point guard/shooting guard with above average defense at his, Ok handles and good passing instincts, great intangibles and has a high IQ. Coby is straight up a sixth man, microwave player. His handles are shaky, he's 6'5 but has a short wingspan, his IQ isn't bad as previous seasons due to him not having to a PG majority of the game. His defense has improved but no where near what Ayo provides.

[bearadonisdna]

If you're using PER to make an argument (for or against) defensive players, you have already lost.

No you lost . Am rent free on you loud mouth amateurs keep it moving .

You aren't living rent free in anyone's head. People are in here genuinely laughing at your takes because they are childish and ridiculous. Nobody is threatened by your thoughts or even taking you seriously. This is one of the funniest GB threads in a while.

Clearly I am , what are you a Cavs fan ? Lol.

[babyjax13]

No you lost . Am rent free on you loud mouth amateurs keep it moving .

You aren't living rent free in anyone's head. People are in here genuinely laughing at your takes because they are childish and ridiculous. Nobody is threatened by your thoughts or even taking you seriously. This is one of the funniest GB threads in a while.

Clearly I am , what are you a Cavs fan ? Lol.

No, you aren't, you've either displayed that you are a hilarious troll or one of the least knowledgeable posters on the forum.

[bearadonisdna]

You aren't living rent free in anyone's head. People are in here genuinely laughing at your takes because they are childish and ridiculous. Nobody is threatened by your thoughts or even taking you seriously. This is one of the funniest GB threads in a while.

Clearly I am , what are you a Cavs fan ? Lol.

No, you aren't, you've either displayed that you are a hilarious troll or one of the least knowledgeable posters on the forum.

Aww yes I am . This whole thread is yesterdays news to me . Lol.
You guys keep bumping a thread about two bench players .
To take a shot at my ‘basketball knowledge ‘ based on preferring a more statistically productive player with a better starting record this season , just relax . You so triggered and others are too , and I’m just chill that’s how I know I’m rent free.

[babyjax13]

Clearly I am , what are you a Cavs fan ? Lol.

No, you aren't, you've either displayed that you are a hilarious troll or one of the least knowledgeable posters on the forum.

Aww yes I am . This whole thread is yesterdays news to me . Lol.
You guys keep bumping a thread about two bench players .
To take a shot at my ‘basketball knowledge ‘ based on preferring a more statistically productive player with a better starting record this season , just relax . You so triggered and others are too , and I’m just chill that’s how I know I’m rent free.

Ayo is better by BPM/RAPTOR/EPM/LEBRON/VORP (marginally in VORP but if he keeps on this pace it won't be by the end of the year) and marginally worse in one of the worst advanced metrics: PER. So, White is not statistically more productive.

And no one is triggered, they are amused and confused? Because what you are saying makes no sense at all. I'll stop here, though.

[bearadonisdna]

No, you aren't, you've either displayed that you are a hilarious troll or one of the least knowledgeable posters on the forum.

Aww yes I am . This whole thread is yesterdays news to me . Lol.
You guys keep bumping a thread about two bench players .
To take a shot at my ‘basketball knowledge ‘ based on preferring a more statistically productive player with a better starting record this season , just relax . You so triggered and others are too , and I’m just chill that’s how I know I’m rent free.

Ayo is better by BPM/RAPTOR/EPM/LEBRON/VORP (marginally in VORP but if he keeps on this pace it won't be by the end of the year) and marginally worse in one of the worst advanced metrics: PER. So, White is not statistically more productive.

And no one is triggered, they are amused and confused? Because what you are saying makes no sense at all. I'll stop here, though.

Honestly I don’t care about those dressed up on /off stats.
There are plenty of nba stats to tell you about a player where I do not need obscure analytics.
Statistically more productive was in more productive per possession or per minute . While at a higher PER. While having a better starting record.
And I’ve proven major ayo duds as a starter.

If people disagree that is more than your right but to say I’m not knowledgeable , while defending an 11 PER player with a bad usage to turnover ration is actually obsurd.

For me to criticize the terrible play and accosted is the worst case of denial I’ve ever seen but not to mention a huge case of overrating . 1 of the boosters in this very thread says he is better than LaVine . Cool story guess I get it. Not being apart of the widespread narrative makes you an idiot but often times the widespread narrative is dispelled . Then who is the Idiot? The bulls are actually one of my teams that I follow. Are they yours ? You are probably just being a rumor poster , a numbers poster , probably much less knowledgeable then you could ever pretend I am .

[Dez]

My God this is pathetic attempt to bash Ayo.

[bearadonisdna]

My God this is pathetic attempt to bash Ayo.

We have been in circles already.
You guys are bumping this from the 2nd page, isnt there enough ayo worship on the bulls forum ?
But in case it isnt enough, i admit ayo has been a godsend, but currently the bulls may be better off team with out him on the roster.

so get this, ive said at least zach has better chemistry with cobe. just like ayo has nash like chemistry with vuc. look at the most 2 recent games. Zach was great with cobe, zach was 'injured 'with ayo.
but it also appears the bulls big 3 are 2twice as good with cobe than ayo.

4 man lineup:
cobe and big 3: +14.7
ayo and big 3: +7.7

check it for yourself dudes. Its about the bulls being a better team, not a crusade against ayo. maybe even Donovan is to blame and ayo is collateral damage.
In the near future cobe will likely be a decent starter and ayo will likely be a backup his entire rookie contract.
We got guys like WCJ (7th pick ) who is flourishing away from donovan.
Lauri (7th pick) who couldnt win with chicago but now winning in Cleveland.