If Chamberlain played in the modern era would he be considered the GOAT

[migya]

Just looking at both on offensive and makes your take completely clueless. Wilt was much more coordinated and far more skilled offensive player than Gobert and he had better physical gifts along with more impressive athleticism to back his defense up.

every seven footer looks skilled and athletic when he's playing against a bunch of 6'8" dudes.

That's just not true. There were a lot of really good big men back then, and there were much fewer teams, so there wasn't a dilution of talent. There's never been a player as freakishly dominant as Wilt.

That right, the nba had fewer teams and only the best made it. Chamberlain was definitely more dominant than anyone else ever, just looking at his numbers it can be seen. Post merger the talent in general has increased in general but Wilt would be great in any era, though this era seems iffy because it's so different with outside shooting focus but he'd actually change it all as a monster like that roughing everyone up would force great bigs to emerge to counter him.

[JonFromVA]

Level of competition and the lack of a time machine clouds any chance of ever making any sort of accurate cross-generational judgement, but by all means ... carry on.

[meekrab]

He'd be Roy Hibbert in today's league.

[migya]

If he was putting up the same numbers yes

Nah he sabotaged multiple teams that were good enough to compete for the title with his poor attitude. Was constantly demanding to be traded the second things got tough. Gave poor effort when he wasn't the feature player on an offensive set.

Wilt was the Russell Westbrook of his era. There was tremendous talent but there were a lot of winning qualities that were missing. That's the reason why everyone who was into the NBA back then considers Bill Russell to be the greater player. Yes Bill Russell won a lot more titles but a big part of the reason why he did is because his focus was winning and Wilt's focus was himself and his stats.

Chamberlain changed and sacrificed more than most stars in history, in order to win. He went from self centered scorer to great passing team player in Philly, to back seat scorer, great defender in LA.

[Roscoe Sheed]

Shooting is better today because of the three point line. Players have worked more on that part of the game league wide. Wilt was not a good shooter because two points at the rim were so easy for him that it would be stupid to shoot it from 20 feet for the same two points. Wilt was a competitor and highly skilled as demonstrated by his hook shot and short jumper. I have no doubt he would have successfully added longer range shooting if he played in todays league. That is speculation on my part, but it is for anyone else as well. I think if you asked the people that knew him best, they would agree with me.

he was a poor free throw shooter, but he actually had good touch for a big man- he had a decent fadeaway jumper

[xdrta+]

The same old tired arguments that Wilt played against a bunch of 6' 8" guys. This was the golden age of centers, and they weren't short. These are some of the centers Wilt played against in his 14 year career, and with so few teams he was playing against them night after night.

Walter Dukes (7'0")
Swede Halbrook (7'3)
Tom Boerwinkle (7'0")
Bob Lanier (6'11")
Darrall Imhoff (6'10")
Otto Moore (6'11")
Sam Lacey (6'10")
George Johnson (6'11")
Paul Ruffner (6'10")
Walt Bellamy (6'11")
Leroy Ellis (6'10")
Nate Thurmond (6'11")
Mel Counts (7'0")
Nate Bowman (6'10")
Clyde Lee (6'10")
Walt Wesley (6'11")
Henry Akin (6'10")
Hank Finkel (7'0")
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (7'2")
Neal Walk (6'10")
Elmore Smith (7'0")
Jim McDaniels (6'11")
LaRue Martin (6'11")
Tom Riker (6'10")

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Free throw shooting is a single skill.

It's the easiest way to compare shooting skill, and how do you expect him to be more skilled than Embiid, when something so fundamental to the game was completely broken in his game. The 3 best offensive C's all shoot the three now, let me guess, Wilt would develop that skill even though he couldn't develop the skill of making a freethrow.

Wilt was far worse shooter than Embiid, but it is only one part of overall skillset. Wilt was still much better passer for example, it's not that easy.

Freethrow percentage is a good indicator of shooting ability, and in todays NBA the best offensive centers can shoot mid-range and the three, they are all 3 level scorers. You simply have to be able to shoot today as a C if you want to be top 3, no if ands or buts, and freethrow percentage correlates to shooting ability, we can easily compare that across eras.

The freethrow percentage is a fly in the ointment that is the myth that Wilt could simply develop whatever skill he wanted.

[Myth]

It is a great question that sadly we will never be able to answer. It is so hard to say how well a person from back then would translate to the modern era. What is more definitive is that there are some things that do translate, including how big, strong, and athletic he was is unmatched even in the modern NBA, so I find low end comparisons like that one with Kwame Brown from page one ridiculous. It is definitely harder for me to fathom the idea that he would not be an all-star than the idea that he would be the definitive GOAT.

[Ruzious]

every seven footer looks skilled and athletic when he's playing against a bunch of 6'8" dudes.

That's just not true. There were a lot of really good big men back then, and there were much fewer teams, so there wasn't a dilution of talent. There's never been a player as freakishly dominant as Wilt.

I mean our WOWY data would indicate Bill not Wilt was the most dominate player ever in the league. So I'd hold up on the idea that Wilt was the most dominate player ever. And while talent WAS not a deep as it is today, despite less teams and the idea these guys were playing against "short" guys is wrong...the number of high end talent today is simply better and it is harder today to stand out against the other great players. Heck you can even make a case for guys like Oscar and West being among the best dominate guys to ever play the game which all goes back to...the gap in a star and a starter was just larger then and created a lot of really exceptional stand out guys, who while they'd be great in any era, clearly looked better due to competition.

Wilt's still today if nothing else likely the best defender or at least the best version of Rudy there could be. His offense translating is where things get more "iffy" to me.

You're entitled to your opinion - I just don't agree with it - as far as his offense goes. I mean, the guy did lead the league in assists when he was called on to do that. The only clink to his armor was jump-shooting. His length and strength combined with explosive leaping ability and great hands made him virtually unstoppable within 10 feet of the hoop, and that wouldn't change. And he'd be getting the best of training methods like the players of today, so there's no reason to believe he wouldn't continue having a huge physical advantage over opponents. Comparing him to Gobert... they're not in the same neighborhood.

[Ruzious]

The same old tired arguments that Wilt played against a bunch of 6' 8" guys. This was the golden age of centers, and they weren't short. These are some of the centers Wilt played against in his 14 year career, and with so few teams he was playing against them night after night.

Walter Dukes (7'0")
Swede Halbrook (7'3)
Tom Boerwinkle (7'0")
Bob Lanier (6'11")
Darrall Imhoff (6'10")
Otto Moore (6'11")
Sam Lacey (6'10")
George Johnson (6'11")
Paul Ruffner (6'10")
Walt Bellamy (6'11")
Leroy Ellis (6'10")
Nate Thurmond (6'11")
Mel Counts (7'0")
Nate Bowman (6'10")
Clyde Lee (6'10")
Walt Wesley (6'11")
Henry Akin (6'10")
Hank Finkel (7'0")
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (7'2")
Neal Walk (6'10")
Elmore Smith (7'0")
Jim McDaniels (6'11")
LaRue Martin (6'11")
Tom Riker (6'10")

And the shortest center - Wes Unseld - was famous for playing center at such a short height of 6'7.5".

[70sFan]

no, he'd be gobert with less defense.

Just looking at both on offensive and makes your take completely clueless. Wilt was much more coordinated and far more skilled offensive player than Gobert and he had better physical gifts along with more impressive athleticism to back his defense up.

every seven footer looks skilled and athletic when he's playing against a bunch of 6'8" dudes.

1. That's not true, as we can see in 2022 when a lot of teams run lineups with 6'8 "centers" and yet most 7 footers are not dominant.

2. Wilt competed against centers that were as tall as now on average. He faced a lot of big and athletic centers.

3. I fail to see how faced competiton makes you run faster/slower or jump higher/lower.

In short, your post has no logic behind it.

[70sFan]

If he was putting up the same numbers yes

Nah he sabotaged multiple teams that were good enough to compete for the title with his poor attitude. Was constantly demanding to be traded the second things got tough. Gave poor effort when he wasn't the feature player on an offensive set.

Wilt was the Russell Westbrook of his era. There was tremendous talent but there were a lot of winning qualities that were missing. That's the reason why everyone who was into the NBA back then considers Bill Russell to be the greater player. Yes Bill Russell won a lot more titles but a big part of the reason why he did is because his focus was winning and Wilt's focus was himself and his stats.

Repeating false narratives won't make them true.

[70sFan]

It's the easiest way to compare shooting skill, and how do you expect him to be more skilled than Embiid, when something so fundamental to the game was completely broken in his game. The 3 best offensive C's all shoot the three now, let me guess, Wilt would develop that skill even though he couldn't develop the skill of making a freethrow.

Wilt was far worse shooter than Embiid, but it is only one part of overall skillset. Wilt was still much better passer for example, it's not that easy.

Freethrow percentage is a good indicator of shooting ability, and in todays NBA the best offensive centers can shoot mid-range and the three, they are all 3 level scorers. You simply have to be able to shoot today as a C if you want to be top 3, no if ands or buts, and freethrow percentage correlates to shooting ability, we can easily compare that across eras.

The freethrow percentage is a fly in the ointment that is the myth that Wilt could simply develop whatever skill he wanted.

I mean, you always had to be able to shoot to be offensive superstar... unless you were massive outlier like Shaq or Wilt. If you say a person in 2000 or 1964 that a player who can't shoot FTs becomes an MVP candidate, they would laugh at you hard... unless you say this player is Wilt or Shaq.

Wilt's main strength wouldn't be even related to scoring, but his defense and his immense inside gravity. He was ATG finisher and offensive rebounder who could pass the ball really well, that alone with his defense would make him at very worst 3rd best center in the league right now. Add some of the nuances he had on offensive and I fail to see why he wouldn't be able to compete with Jokic and Embiid.

I agree with you on one thing - he wouldn't be a shooter in 2022 and he wouldn't learn how to make FTs on consistent basis.

[JonFromVA]

The same old tired arguments that Wilt played against a bunch of 6' 8" guys. This was the golden age of centers, and they weren't short. These are some of the centers Wilt played against in his 14 year career, and with so few teams he was playing against them night after night.

Walter Dukes (7'0")
Swede Halbrook (7'3)
Tom Boerwinkle (7'0")
Bob Lanier (6'11")
Darrall Imhoff (6'10")
Otto Moore (6'11")
Sam Lacey (6'10")
George Johnson (6'11")
Paul Ruffner (6'10")
Walt Bellamy (6'11")
Leroy Ellis (6'10")
Nate Thurmond (6'11")
Mel Counts (7'0")
Nate Bowman (6'10")
Clyde Lee (6'10")
Walt Wesley (6'11")
Henry Akin (6'10")
Hank Finkel (7'0")
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (7'2")
Neal Walk (6'10")
Elmore Smith (7'0")
Jim McDaniels (6'11")
LaRue Martin (6'11")
Tom Riker (6'10")

Is that really a fair way to look at it?

For instance, if we just examine the season Wilt averaged 50ppg, the starting C's he faced included:

Bill Russell 6-10 235
Red Kerr 6-9 230
Phil Jordon 6-10 205
Jim Krebs 6-8 230
Wayne Embry 6-8 240
Walter Dukes 7-0 220
Clyde Lovellette 6-9 234
Walt Bellamy 6-11 235

while Wilt himself is listed at 7-1 275

The thing is, ATG's generally speaking did enjoy physical, athletic, and skill advantages over their peers. It's all part of the deal whether we're talking about Wilt, Kareem, Jordan, Shaq, LeBron or even Iverson spamming his crossover on the league, or Curry raining 3's on the league.

Of course they wouldn't stand out in the modern NBA like they did in their own time, but we simply can't know how they would have built on the past and/or learned to exploit the modern game.

[70sFan]

The same old tired arguments that Wilt played against a bunch of 6' 8" guys. This was the golden age of centers, and they weren't short. These are some of the centers Wilt played against in his 14 year career, and with so few teams he was playing against them night after night.

Walter Dukes (7'0")
Swede Halbrook (7'3)
Tom Boerwinkle (7'0")
Bob Lanier (6'11")
Darrall Imhoff (6'10")
Otto Moore (6'11")
Sam Lacey (6'10")
George Johnson (6'11")
Paul Ruffner (6'10")
Walt Bellamy (6'11")
Leroy Ellis (6'10")
Nate Thurmond (6'11")
Mel Counts (7'0")
Nate Bowman (6'10")
Clyde Lee (6'10")
Walt Wesley (6'11")
Henry Akin (6'10")
Hank Finkel (7'0")
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (7'2")
Neal Walk (6'10")
Elmore Smith (7'0")
Jim McDaniels (6'11")
LaRue Martin (6'11")
Tom Riker (6'10")

Is that really a fair way to look at it?

For instance, if we just examine the season Wilt averaged 50ppg, the starting C's he faced included:

Bill Russell 6-10 235
Red Kerr 6-9 230
Phil Jordon 6-10 205
Jim Krebs 6-8 230
Wayne Embry 6-8 240
Bob Ferry 6-8 230
Clyde Lovellette 6-9 234
Walt Bellamy 6-11 235

while Wilt himself is listed at 7-1 275

The thing is, ATG's generally speaking did enjoy physical, athletic, and skill advantages over their peers. It's all part of the deal whether we're talking about Wilt, Kareem, Jordan, Shaq, LeBron or even Iverson spamming his crossover on the league, or Curry raining 3's on the league.

Of course they wouldn't stand out in the modern NBA like they did in their own time, but we simply can't know how they would have built on the past and/or learned to exploit the modern game.

Just a small correction - Ferry wasn't a starter for Pistons in 1962, Walter Dukes was and he was a 7 footer.

[JonFromVA]

The same old tired arguments that Wilt played against a bunch of 6' 8" guys. This was the golden age of centers, and they weren't short. These are some of the centers Wilt played against in his 14 year career, and with so few teams he was playing against them night after night.

Walter Dukes (7'0")
Swede Halbrook (7'3)
Tom Boerwinkle (7'0")
Bob Lanier (6'11")
Darrall Imhoff (6'10")
Otto Moore (6'11")
Sam Lacey (6'10")
George Johnson (6'11")
Paul Ruffner (6'10")
Walt Bellamy (6'11")
Leroy Ellis (6'10")
Nate Thurmond (6'11")
Mel Counts (7'0")
Nate Bowman (6'10")
Clyde Lee (6'10")
Walt Wesley (6'11")
Henry Akin (6'10")
Hank Finkel (7'0")
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (7'2")
Neal Walk (6'10")
Elmore Smith (7'0")
Jim McDaniels (6'11")
LaRue Martin (6'11")
Tom Riker (6'10")

Is that really a fair way to look at it?

For instance, if we just examine the season Wilt averaged 50ppg, the starting C's he faced included:

Bill Russell 6-10 235
Red Kerr 6-9 230
Phil Jordon 6-10 205
Jim Krebs 6-8 230
Wayne Embry 6-8 240
Bob Ferry 6-8 230
Clyde Lovellette 6-9 234
Walt Bellamy 6-11 235

while Wilt himself is listed at 7-1 275

The thing is, ATG's generally speaking did enjoy physical, athletic, and skill advantages over their peers. It's all part of the deal whether we're talking about Wilt, Kareem, Jordan, Shaq, LeBron or even Iverson spamming his crossover on the league, or Curry raining 3's on the league.

Of course they wouldn't stand out in the modern NBA like they did in their own time, but we simply can't know how they would have built on the past and/or learned to exploit the modern game.

Just a small correction - Ferry wasn't a starter for Pistons in 1962, Walter Dukes was and he was a 7 footer.

Fixed it in my original post ... Dukes ("the first athletic 7 footer in basketball") was 10lbs lighter than Ferry at 7 ft ... his box score would indicate his battles .vs. Wilt didn't go particularly well.

Watch on YouTube

[dhsilv2]

That's just not true. There were a lot of really good big men back then, and there were much fewer teams, so there wasn't a dilution of talent. There's never been a player as freakishly dominant as Wilt.

I mean our WOWY data would indicate Bill not Wilt was the most dominate player ever in the league. So I'd hold up on the idea that Wilt was the most dominate player ever. And while talent WAS not a deep as it is today, despite less teams and the idea these guys were playing against "short" guys is wrong...the number of high end talent today is simply better and it is harder today to stand out against the other great players. Heck you can even make a case for guys like Oscar and West being among the best dominate guys to ever play the game which all goes back to...the gap in a star and a starter was just larger then and created a lot of really exceptional stand out guys, who while they'd be great in any era, clearly looked better due to competition.

Wilt's still today if nothing else likely the best defender or at least the best version of Rudy there could be. His offense translating is where things get more "iffy" to me.

You're entitled to your opinion - I just don't agree with it - as far as his offense goes. I mean, the guy did lead the league in assists when he was called on to do that. The only clink to his armor was jump-shooting. His length and strength combined with explosive leaping ability and great hands made him virtually unstoppable within 10 feet of the hoop, and that wouldn't change. And he'd be getting the best of training methods like the players of today, so there's no reason to believe he wouldn't continue having a huge physical advantage over opponents. Comparing him to Gobert... they're not in the same neighborhood.

Well, offensively he'd certainly be different than Gobert, but their defensive play is very similar. Offensively, I see no real case for him over West or Oscar from that era. Wilt's volume was impressive, but there's no evidence that he was generating elite offense when running the offense though him. But that's almost always the case with big men. Only real Shaq, Jokic, and perhaps Kareem were ever really elite offensive player in terms of ceiling raising team offense.

Wilt seems much more in line with a Harden offensively, a bit less volume adjusting for minutes/pace, but similar scoring when you compare their peaks.

[dickfox]

In the modern era, Wilt would date a Kardashian and it would be his demise.

[70sFan]

Is that really a fair way to look at it?

For instance, if we just examine the season Wilt averaged 50ppg, the starting C's he faced included:

Bill Russell 6-10 235
Red Kerr 6-9 230
Phil Jordon 6-10 205
Jim Krebs 6-8 230
Wayne Embry 6-8 240
Bob Ferry 6-8 230
Clyde Lovellette 6-9 234
Walt Bellamy 6-11 235

while Wilt himself is listed at 7-1 275

The thing is, ATG's generally speaking did enjoy physical, athletic, and skill advantages over their peers. It's all part of the deal whether we're talking about Wilt, Kareem, Jordan, Shaq, LeBron or even Iverson spamming his crossover on the league, or Curry raining 3's on the league.

Of course they wouldn't stand out in the modern NBA like they did in their own time, but we simply can't know how they would have built on the past and/or learned to exploit the modern game.

Just a small correction - Ferry wasn't a starter for Pistons in 1962, Walter Dukes was and he was a 7 footer.

Fixed it in my original post ... Dukes ("the first athletic 7 footer in basketball") was 10lbs lighter than Ferry at 7 ft ... his box score would indicate his battles .vs. Wilt didn't go particularly well.

Watch on YouTube

Dukes was 220 lbs in college, which was 5 years before Wilt came to the league.

You shouldn't use Basketball Reference listed weights as your barometer of players size from that era. Back then teams usually took college listed weights and repeated it until the retirement. Even now listed weights are not accurate, but it was far worse back then.

As an example, you mentioned Wayne Embry at 240 lbs but he weighed around 260 lbs throughout his prime and he peaked around 275 lbs. Walt Bellamy was similar - listed at ridiculously low 220 lbs, but we have a ton of reports calling him 250-260 lbs. I mean, when you watch him it's evident that he was significantly bigger than 220 lbs. Clyde Lovellete reached 285 lbs at some point if I remember correctly.

1962 centers weren't really smaller than modern starting centers. The only short starting center back then was Embry, but he had massive frame and very long arms. Even then, it's not unseen today to have players shorter than him playing at center.

[SelfishPlayer]

Who played center for Durant's AAU teams?

That question went unanswered although you are still participating in the thread.

Am I supposed to know who his random teammate number 34 was from almost 20 years ago? It wasn't Durant, he was a G/F coming out of HS.

You said that Wilt would be the center on any AAU team, that he would be the tallest player on his team. I'm trying to figure out if you are saying that he would be a center because he was the tallest player on his AAU team?