Is Pau Gasol a top 50 player all-time?

[PlayerUp]

No because his lack of defense.

[Jaivl]

NBA-only, no, I don't think so.

Not far below, though.

[70sFan]

Only Kobe fans criticize Gasol in this thread... which should tell you all you need to know.

And of course, Duncan fans are dismayed when we point out the truth... because Parker and Ginobili "carried" Duncan a whole lot more than Pau "carried" Kobe.

You see, that's the difference between us. I never said Pau carried Kobe, that would be ridiculous statement. You have no problems with using such words for the Spurs situation though.

Manu peaked considerably higher than Pau in my opinion. I wouldn't pick any version of Parker over Gasol though.

[70sFan]

Yeah. Just look at his career w/out Kobe. Beast.

Only Kobe fans criticize Gasol in this thread... which should tell you all you need to know.

What is this supposed to prove?

[70sFan]

Only Kobe fans criticize Gasol in this thread... which should tell you all you need to know.

Is Gasol sacrosanct and beyond reproach or something? He can't be criticize?

No. He can be criticized.

[Ein Sof]

Yeah. Just look at his career w/out Kobe. Beast.

Only Kobe fans criticize Gasol in this thread... which should tell you all you need to know.

What is this supposed to prove?

Prove? I'm lol'ing at you, a Spurs/Duncan fan, whining about Kobe fans being biased.

[70sFan]

Yeah. Just look at his career w/out Kobe. Beast.

What is this supposed to prove?

Prove? I'm lol'ing at you, a Spurs/Duncan fan, unironically whining about Kobe fans being biased.

So you believe all Spurs fans are as biased as a few posters here that are dedicated Kobe fans? I fail to see your point, are you suggesting that I find Gasol valuable because I'm a Spurs fan?

[Ein Sof]

What is this supposed to prove?

Prove? I'm lol'ing at you, a Spurs/Duncan fan, unironically whining about Kobe fans being biased.

So you believe all Spurs fans are as biased as a few posters here that are dedicated Kobe fans? I fail to see your point, are you suggesting that I find Gasol valuable because I'm a Spurs fan?

Only Spurs fans criticize Kobe fans in this thread... which should tell you all you need to know.

[OdomFan]

If not top 75, I'd say some where close to it like 76-80. He's got one of the greatest basketball resumes of all time being that he had a great NBA career and International. His 2010 NBA Finals performance helps too. He was very big in helping LA win that championship so all in all. I wouldn't be surprised if his name is included in the next big NBA all time great ceremony.

[70sFan]

Prove? I'm lol'ing at you, a Spurs/Duncan fan, unironically whining about Kobe fans being biased.

So you believe all Spurs fans are as biased as a few posters here that are dedicated Kobe fans? I fail to see your point, are you suggesting that I find Gasol valuable because I'm a Spurs fan?

Only Spurs fans criticize Kobe fans in this thread... which should tell you all you need to know.

Waste of time

[cupcakesnake]

No because his lack of defense.

I have Pau Gasol as a very good defender from about 2004-2011. He came into the league with a lot of mobility and athleticism. He was a solid primary rim protector throughout his prime and was versatile/mobile enough to play next to a slower big. His Grizzlies and Lakers teams both had extended stretches as elite defenses, and Gasol was right there in the middle of all that. He wasn't quite an all-defense guy, but I'd rate him a B+ or A- defender in all his young/prime years.

Starting as early as 2011, Pau started looking less mobile and in my opinion, started looking kind of physically weak in his movements. I remember someone describing Pau in San Antonio as "looking like a statue made of water balloons" which I thought was hilarious but kinda accurate. But even in those late years when the mobility was gone, Pau was smart and giant and used that to stay strong as a rim protector in drop coverage. He was very exploitable late in his career, but never quite bad. He was used very effectively in Chicago and San Antonio

[Ein Sof]

So you believe all Spurs fans are as biased as a few posters here that are dedicated Kobe fans? I fail to see your point, are you suggesting that I find Gasol valuable because I'm a Spurs fan?

Only Spurs fans criticize Kobe fans in this thread... which should tell you all you need to know.

Waste of time

No need to get upset.

[Chronz]

Malone Duncan Garnett durk AD Barkley rodman mchale Giannis Have a really strong case over Pau at his position. Elvin hayes and c Webb have an argument as well.

Hayes has no argument

[Synciere]

Agreed with the list of players you have over Pau (although I think Duncan should be on the list of Centers)... but also think there are more Power Forwards who could be above Pau too. Listing some in chronological order:

- Tom Heinsohn
- Jerry Lucas
- Elvin Hayes
- Kevin McHale
- Chris Webber
- Chris Bosh
- Anthony Davis

Honorable mention... Dennis Rodman and Jermaine O'Neal.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I'll say that it's really only McHale & AD in that list that were more effective at basketball than Gasol.

Heinsohn, Lucas, Hayes & Webber are all guys that got significantly overrated the people of their day because of their volume scoring numbers.

(I wouldn't call Bosh overrated. In general I find him underrated for reasons very similar to why Gasol gets underrated.)

Webber was an AWESOME passer for a big man, even better than Pau IMO. I could see someone ranking Webber higher based on that and the volume scoring also. I think I have Rodman higher also.

[Doctor MJ]

Agreed with the list of players you have over Pau (although I think Duncan should be on the list of Centers)... but also think there are more Power Forwards who could be above Pau too. Listing some in chronological order:

- Tom Heinsohn
- Jerry Lucas
- Elvin Hayes
- Kevin McHale
- Chris Webber
- Chris Bosh
- Anthony Davis

Honorable mention... Dennis Rodman and Jermaine O'Neal.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I'll say that it's really only McHale & AD in that list that were more effective at basketball than Gasol.

Heinsohn, Lucas, Hayes & Webber are all guys that got significantly overrated the people of their day because of their volume scoring numbers.

(I wouldn't call Bosh overrated. In general I find him underrated for reasons very similar to why Gasol gets underrated.)

Webber was an AWESOME passer for a big man, even better than Pau IMO. I could see someone ranking Webber higher based on that and the volume scoring also. I think I have Rodman higher also.

He shot too much and didn't pass enough, which had everything to do with why the team actually improved when Webber got hurt and Brad Miller played.

The ability to make a good pass only counts for so much. You also have to have the judgement to know when to pass, and on that front, I'd rate Gasol well above Webber.

Frankly the way people talk about Gasol, I feel like they weren't really processing things back when Gasol joined the Lakers. After years of seeing various players being unable to get decent at the Triangle even after years, Gasol showed up and grasped it instantly.

Re: Rodman. Very difficult comparison because they are so different. There were costs to Rodman though. He turned into a pumpkin on the Spurs when they had a shot to win a title, and in his most glamorous time, he abandoned his team and only slinked back when his fellow player flew out, grabbed him by the ear, and brought him home. If the question is who you could rely upon, the answer was not Rodman.

[Doctor MJ]

Prove? I'm lol'ing at you, a Spurs/Duncan fan, unironically whining about Kobe fans being biased.

So you believe all Spurs fans are as biased as a few posters here that are dedicated Kobe fans? I fail to see your point, are you suggesting that I find Gasol valuable because I'm a Spurs fan?

Only Spurs fans criticize Kobe fans in this thread... which should tell you all you need to know.

As a Laker fan, I'll say:

No player-fan base has been more toxic to quality basketball thought that the cult of personality that is Kobe fandom, and if you imagine any opponent fanbase is the one being unreasonable, 99% of the time you're wrong...and you can see it right in this thread.

It's completely find not to have Gasol in one's Top 50, but anyone who turns their nose up at Gasol while claiming to be a Laker fan needs to check themselves. Lakers don't get those last two Kobe titles without Gasol. Kobe was the best player on the team no doubt, and a worthy MVP player... but Gasol was huge for the team.

[Kobe187]

Top 75.

[gorz]

Duncan
Malone
Giannis
Dirk
Garnett
Barkley
AD
Bosh
Mchale
Hayes


Are all clearly ahead of him


Gasol is somewhere in this group

Rodman
Webber
Jermaine O'Neal
Zbo
Draymond

[Ein Sof]

So you believe all Spurs fans are as biased as a few posters here that are dedicated Kobe fans? I fail to see your point, are you suggesting that I find Gasol valuable because I'm a Spurs fan?

Only Spurs fans criticize Kobe fans in this thread... which should tell you all you need to know.

As a Laker fan, I'll say:

No player-fan base has been more toxic to quality basketball thought that the cult of personality that is Kobe fandom, and if you imagine any opponent fanbase is the one being unreasonable, 99% of the time you're wrong...and you can see it right in this thread.

It's completely find not to have Gasol in one's Top 50, but anyone who turns their nose up at Gasol while claiming to be a Laker fan needs to check themselves. Lakers don't get those last two Kobe titles without Gasol. Kobe was the best player on the team no doubt, and a worthy MVP player... but Gasol was huge for the team.

I would say labelling all disagreement with the OP (of this anti-Kobe troll thread) as rabid, butthurt stans, is quite toxic to quality basketball thought.

[naabzor]

Duncan
Malone
Giannis
Dirk
Garnett
Barkley
AD
Bosh
Mchale
Hayes


Are all clearly ahead of him


Gasol is somewhere in this group

Rodman
Webber
Jermaine O'Neal
Zbo
Draymond

What? Jermaine o Neal? Zbo? Are you serious? Bosh is better then Gasol too? How?