Are the Knicks even better than the Pistons?

[chrbal]

Detroit that lost their best player in Grant and didnt make playoffs?

That detroit?

Cades still a Piston

and?

Jerami Grant wasn’t our best player

[Kampuchea]

What is the reason Knicks and Pistons are being compared?

Is the hope not for the Pistons to be able to say they are a good team, the goal is "at least we're not the Knicks"? I suppose if you set the bar lower it is more difficult to fail.

[Scalabrine]

Stewart/Noel/Duran
Bagley/Olynyk/Livers
Bey/Diallo/Knox
Ivey/Burks
Cunningham/Joseph/Lee
Is Kemba staying on the team?

I do like the Pistons squad but I would be shocked if they're better than the Knicks this year. Absolutely shocked. I do like their core a ton, just think they are still another season or two of being bad away. Which is probably better for them long-term anyway.

[bstein14]

22-23 season: Knicks are for sure better
23-24 season: It's likely close between the two teams each winning in the mid 40s.
24-25 season: Pistons are most likely better.

Right so the Pistons improve exponentially while the Knicks do not , even though the team has young improving core, and tons of draft capitol for trades.

The Knicks have lots of key players in their primes or on the decline. Rose and Randle aren't getting better. Fournier isn't still getting better. I think the Knicks do have some room to climb the next few years but I don't think they've got a top end talent like Cade at the moment who I'd expect to be an all-star by year 3 at the latest.

[RHODEY]

22-23 season: Knicks are for sure better
23-24 season: It's likely close between the two teams each winning in the mid 40s.
24-25 season: Pistons are most likely better.

Right so the Pistons improve exponentially while the Knicks do not , even though the team has young improving core, and tons of draft capitol for trades.

The Knicks have lots of key players in their primes or on the decline. Rose and Randle aren't getting better. Fournier isn't still getting better. I think the Knicks do have some room to climb the next few years but I don't think they've got a top end talent like Cade at the moment who I'd expect to be an all-star by year 3 at the latest.

LOL Randle in his worst season still gave us 20 9 and 5. Dude is like 27 and is not in "decline". Fournier is like one of the best 3 point shooters in the league and we have the depth to bring him off the bench. We had Burks as our starting PG, now we have Brunson. Y'all need to be comparing yourselves to the Orlando Magic or the Houston Rockets...

[cgf]

22-23 season: Knicks are for sure better
23-24 season: It's likely close between the two teams each winning in the mid 40s.
24-25 season: Pistons are most likely better.

Right so the Pistons improve exponentially while the Knicks do not , even though the team has young improving core, and tons of draft capitol for trades.

The Knicks have lots of key players in their primes or on the decline. Rose and Randle aren't getting better. Fournier isn't still getting better. I think the Knicks do have some room to climb the next few years but I don't think they've got a top end talent like Cade at the moment who I'd expect to be an all-star by year 3 at the latest.

…the Knicks have 4 players over 24yo; Brunson (25), Randle (26), Fournier (29), and Rose (33).

Is that a lot of key players in their prime? Or would it be more accurate to say that two key players have entered their primes? Given that Rose is a bench guy when healthy and the FO has been trying to dump Fournier for free since before the TDL…

Knicks don’t have a Cade and even though they have the ammo to trade for one & this FO has shown good patience so far, the franchise hasn’t earned the benefit of the doubt on getting the right guy or paying the right price.

So I think it’s fair to expect Detroit to take a leap that we probably won’t, until that #1 option trade happens…but the Knicks are young team with just two key players in the early stages of their primes.

[cgf]

RJ Barrett is hella overrated. thats all.

After an offseason with everyone dumping on him and saying he sucks? Yeah, I don't think so.

In order to be overrated there has to be a large number of people saying that a player is better than he actually is. This offseason has just been open season on RJ ever since he was brought up in Mitchell trade rumors.

And as someone who watched most of his games, I get why. His efficiency just isn’t there yet and we haven’t put him in too many spots to show off his playmaking; so I get the people saying he’s not a good player atm.

…but he took a huge stride with his handle & ability to attack the rim, like he & his trainer said they were going to focus on last summer. Just like his C&Sing the previous summer.

If he takes a similar step with his off the bounce shooting; since they said that would be their focus this summer; and his finishing around the rim next summer; like they plan to…his efficiency could look entirely different in a year or two.

And RJ’s the kind of kid I (weirdly) trust to make that progress.

[kamaze]

I’m just saying they haven’t improved much on paper and the pistons roster just looks better on paper

They lost some depth too
Noel
Burks
Walker
Gibson

I think the vets on the kicks are still capable of a 40-win season. The ceiling is much higher with pistons however .


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Didn't realize they lost so much they're going to miss those players.

[Douglas McClure]

Got tired of the Knicks always being in the news so proceeded to passive aggressively diss them on RealGM.

Here is the thing bro'. It is call "Jalousie". It is mind boggling to them(non Knicks fans) that a team who hasn't won in a long while are more relevant than teams with multiple superstars on their roster.
By the way, Cade Cunningham has not proven anything yet in the NBA, Jaden Ivey flopped in the NCAA tournament and hasn't played a game in the NBA. Let those guys have an impact in the NBA yet before you guys making statements about the Pistons better than the Knicks.

[sfernald]

Stewart/Noel/Duran
Bagley/Olynyk/Livers
Bey/Diallo/Knox
Ivey/Burks
Cunningham/Joseph/Lee
Is Kemba staying on the team?

I do like the Pistons squad but I would be shocked if they're better than the Knicks this year. Absolutely shocked. I do like their core a ton, just think they are still another season or two of being bad away. Which is probably better for them long-term anyway.

That starting team is about 21.5 year old on average.. Not too damn bad!

[bstein14]

Right so the Pistons improve exponentially while the Knicks do not , even though the team has young improving core, and tons of draft capitol for trades.

The Knicks have lots of key players in their primes or on the decline. Rose and Randle aren't getting better. Fournier isn't still getting better. I think the Knicks do have some room to climb the next few years but I don't think they've got a top end talent like Cade at the moment who I'd expect to be an all-star by year 3 at the latest.

…the Knicks have 4 players over 24yo; Brunson (25), Randle (26), Fournier (29), and Rose (33).

Is that a lot of key players in their prime? Or would it be more accurate to say that two key players have entered their primes? Given that Rose is a bench guy when healthy and the FO has been trying to dump Fournier for free since before the TDL…

Knicks don’t have a Cade and even though they have the ammo to trade for one & this FO has shown good patience so far, the franchise hasn’t earned the benefit of the doubt on getting the right guy or paying the right price.

So I think it’s fair to expect Detroit to take a leap that we probably won’t, until that #1 option trade happens…but the Knicks are young team with just two key players in the early stages of their primes.

Rose has often looked like your best player since you've traded for him. He had by far the best +/- on the team two years ago, and he had the best +/- on the team again last season. It's hard to say how much he falls off since he missed so much time his body might not be as worn out as it should be for his age and he could keep playing late into his 30s like Grant Hill did, but we'll have to wait and see.

[Moose]

The Knicks have lots of key players in their primes or on the decline. Rose and Randle aren't getting better. Fournier isn't still getting better. I think the Knicks do have some room to climb the next few years but I don't think they've got a top end talent like Cade at the moment who I'd expect to be an all-star by year 3 at the latest.

…the Knicks have 4 players over 24yo; Brunson (25), Randle (26), Fournier (29), and Rose (33).

Is that a lot of key players in their prime? Or would it be more accurate to say that two key players have entered their primes? Given that Rose is a bench guy when healthy and the FO has been trying to dump Fournier for free since before the TDL…

Knicks don’t have a Cade and even though they have the ammo to trade for one & this FO has shown good patience so far, the franchise hasn’t earned the benefit of the doubt on getting the right guy or paying the right price.

So I think it’s fair to expect Detroit to take a leap that we probably won’t, until that #1 option trade happens…but the Knicks are young team with just two key players in the early stages of their primes.

Rose has often looked like your best player since you've traded for him. He had by far the best +/- on the team two years ago, and he had the best +/- on the team again last season. It's hard to say how much he falls off since he missed so much time his body might not be as worn out as it should be for his age and he could keep playing late into his 30s like Grant Hill did, but we'll have to wait and see.

I can't imagine the Knicks are counting on Rose since he can't stay healthy. And he may even be traded.

[ArksNetsSince99]

No ,Detroit got way better youngsters and a future

Knicks are not even best team in their own city

[ArksNetsSince99]

Right so the Pistons improve exponentially while the Knicks do not , even though the team has young improving core, and tons of draft capitol for trades.

The Knicks have lots of key players in their primes or on the decline. Rose and Randle aren't getting better. Fournier isn't still getting better. I think the Knicks do have some room to climb the next few years but I don't think they've got a top end talent like Cade at the moment who I'd expect to be an all-star by year 3 at the latest.

LOL Randle in his worst season still gave us 20 9 and 5. Dude is like 27 and is not in "decline". Fournier is like one of the best 3 point shooters in the league and we have the depth to bring him off the bench. We had Burks as our starting PG, now we have Brunson. Y'all need to be comparing yourselves to the Orlando Magic or the Houston Rockets...

In 2025 and beyond Knicks still have Dolan , on this fact alone , Detroit is light years ahead

Knowing Tsai willingness to invest in other semi pro teams they might be behind not only Brooklyn but behind Long Island Nets

[_txchilibowl_]

Got tired of the Knicks always being in the news so proceeded to passive aggressively diss them on RealGM.

Here is the thing bro'. It is call "Jalousie". It is mind boggling to them(non Knicks fans) that a team who hasn't won in a long while are more relevant than teams with multiple superstars on their roster.
By the way, Cade Cunningham has not proven anything yet in the NBA, Jaden Ivey flopped in the NCAA tournament and hasn't played a game in the NBA. Let those guys have an impact in the NBA yet before you guys making statements about the Pistons better than the Knicks.

The Knicks aren't relevant to anyone outside of NY. They just happen to be at the center of a huge media hub so they get click bait pieces written about them. Of course, nothing actually ever happens....but hey...they were in the news! Hello relevancy!?

[RHODEY]

The Knicks have lots of key players in their primes or on the decline. Rose and Randle aren't getting better. Fournier isn't still getting better. I think the Knicks do have some room to climb the next few years but I don't think they've got a top end talent like Cade at the moment who I'd expect to be an all-star by year 3 at the latest.

LOL Randle in his worst season still gave us 20 9 and 5. Dude is like 27 and is not in "decline". Fournier is like one of the best 3 point shooters in the league and we have the depth to bring him off the bench. We had Burks as our starting PG, now we have Brunson. Y'all need to be comparing yourselves to the Orlando Magic or the Houston Rockets...

In 2025 and beyond Knicks still have Dolan , on this fact alone , Detroit is light years ahead

Knowing Tsai willingness to invest in other semi pro teams they might be behind not only Brooklyn but behind Long Island Nets

You sound triggered and resentful Maybe you should focus on your on teams dwindling/evacuating talent.

[Synciere]

I understand it when the Knicks aren’t mentioned on the general board. We haven’t done enough to warrant discussion. So threads like these out of nowhere seem like hate, though as a franchise we don’t face much to hate on. So it must be they just hate NYC or it’s people, which I get. We’re brash and talk a lotta shyt, but in the end people just hate us cause they ain’t us.

As for the teams, draft picks have their highest values before the picks are made. Then with high picks it’s assumed they’ll be superstars, but there are way more Andrew Wiggins than Lebron James. I love Cade as a prospect, but this talk of him being a guaranteed stud is super premature. Same with Ivey. He might be Jah; he might be Kris Dunn. Just because you don’t know their ceilings doesn’t mean they have higher ceilings than the current Knicks players.

The entire Knicks core is 23-26. That’s basically entering their primes. They all still have growth. RJ gets ragged on but he’s still has had game winners and dropped 46 on good teams like the Heat. Obi Toppin dropped 42 late in the season. Mitchell Robinson is one of the best defensive players in the league. It is entirely possible the Knicks young core is not only better than, but will be better than the Detroit core. Add to that, the Knicks have way more picks than Detroit does, so we have the flexibility to get better in a hurry with the right trade. I don’t think it’ll be Mitchell since Ainge likes to run peoples pockets, but we’ll be better than Detroit for the next five years easily. The pistons were not the right team to use in this example.

[sfernald]

I understand it when the Knicks aren’t mentioned on the general board. We haven’t done enough to warrant discussion. So threads like these out of nowhere seem like hate, though as a franchise we don’t face much to hate on. So it must be they just hate NYC or it’s people, which I get. We’re brash and talk a lotta shyt, but in the end people just hate us cause they ain’t us.

As for the teams, draft picks have their highest values before the picks are made. Then with high picks it’s assumed they’ll be superstars, but there are way more Andrew Wiggins than Lebron James. I love Cade as a prospect, but this talk of him being a guaranteed stud is super premature. Same with Ivey. He might be Jah; he might be Kris Dunn. Just because you don’t know their ceilings doesn’t mean they have higher ceilings than the current Knicks players.

The entire Knicks core is 23-26. That’s basically entering their primes. They all still have growth. RJ gets ragged on but he’s still has had game winners and dropped 46 on good teams like the Heat. Obi Toppin dropped 42 late in the season. Mitchell Robinson is one of the best defensive players in the league. It is entirely possible the Knicks young core is not only better than, but will be better than the Detroit core. Add to that, the Knicks have way more picks than Detroit does, so we have the flexibility to get better in a hurry with the right trade. I don’t think it’ll be Mitchell since Ainge likes to run peoples pockets, but we’ll be better than Detroit for the next five years easily. The pistons were not the right team to use in this example.

I have no pony in this race, but Detroit has one of the most desirable, best fitting young rosters in the league. I would not be surprised at all for them to make a Memphis like climb starting as soon as this year. I just love Cade, Ivey, Duren and Bey. What an exciting team they will have next year! They are sure to be a league pass favorite!

Knicks, well, they will keep on Knicking as long as Dolan’s in control. Very little chance of developing players. Always in win now mode. They would have been so much better to do a Presti style rebuild but that will never happen. When you look up mediocre in the dictionary, the Knicks are on the top of a large heap of teams. But hey at least you got that little sneaker dude who used to make decent movies.

[Synciere]

I understand it when the Knicks aren’t mentioned on the general board. We haven’t done enough to warrant discussion. So threads like these out of nowhere seem like hate, though as a franchise we don’t face much to hate on. So it must be they just hate NYC or it’s people, which I get. We’re brash and talk a lotta shyt, but in the end people just hate us cause they ain’t us.

As for the teams, draft picks have their highest values before the picks are made. Then with high picks it’s assumed they’ll be superstars, but there are way more Andrew Wiggins than Lebron James. I love Cade as a prospect, but this talk of him being a guaranteed stud is super premature. Same with Ivey. He might be Jah; he might be Kris Dunn. Just because you don’t know their ceilings doesn’t mean they have higher ceilings than the current Knicks players.

The entire Knicks core is 23-26. That’s basically entering their primes. They all still have growth. RJ gets ragged on but he’s still has had game winners and dropped 46 on good teams like the Heat. Obi Toppin dropped 42 late in the season. Mitchell Robinson is one of the best defensive players in the league. It is entirely possible the Knicks young core is not only better than, but will be better than the Detroit core. Add to that, the Knicks have way more picks than Detroit does, so we have the flexibility to get better in a hurry with the right trade. I don’t think it’ll be Mitchell since Ainge likes to run peoples pockets, but we’ll be better than Detroit for the next five years easily. The pistons were not the right team to use in this example.

I have no pony in this race, but Detroit has one of the most desirable, best fitting young rosters in the league. I would not be surprised at all for them to make a Memphis like climb starting as soon as this year. I just love Cade, Ivey, Duren and Bey. What an exciting team they will have next year! They are sure to be a league pass favorite!

Knicks, well, they will keep on Knicking as long as Dolan’s in control. Very little chance of developing players. Always in win now mode. They would have been so much better to do a Presti style rebuild but that will never happen. When you look up mediocre in the dictionary, the Knicks are on the top of a large heap of teams. But hey at least you got that little sneaker dude who used to make decent movies.

I get it, but everything you just said is based on potential. The Knicks were just a 4 seed a year ago. For all the talk of detroits youth, I think in a blind poll of league executives, Toppin and RJ Barrett would rank higher than Bey and Duren. We’ve yet to see Ivey, and Detroit was a bad team also for longer than the Knicks have been a bad team. If you don’t have faith in the Knicks’ brass or ownership, wtf has Detroit done to make you think they’d be better, besides picking into Cade? Detroit is in the Orlando, Washington, Sacramento, Charlotte class of teams that have consistently had high picks and are still never good. The Knicks have had more recent success than any of those teams, Detroit included. That’s my point. The point of tanking continuously is that you’re going to miss on at least half of your picks. There’s literally no evidence that Detroit won’t be one of the five worst teams for years to come.

[Pharaoh]

I understand it when the Knicks aren’t mentioned on the general board. We haven’t done enough to warrant discussion. So threads like these out of nowhere seem like hate, though as a franchise we don’t face much to hate on. So it must be they just hate NYC or it’s people, which I get. We’re brash and talk a lotta shyt, but in the end people just hate us cause they ain’t us.

As for the teams, draft picks have their highest values before the picks are made. Then with high picks it’s assumed they’ll be superstars, but there are way more Andrew Wiggins than Lebron James. I love Cade as a prospect, but this talk of him being a guaranteed stud is super premature. Same with Ivey. He might be Jah; he might be Kris Dunn. Just because you don’t know their ceilings doesn’t mean they have higher ceilings than the current Knicks players.

The entire Knicks core is 23-26. That’s basically entering their primes. They all still have growth. RJ gets ragged on but he’s still has had game winners and dropped 46 on good teams like the Heat. Obi Toppin dropped 42 late in the season. Mitchell Robinson is one of the best defensive players in the league. It is entirely possible the Knicks young core is not only better than, but will be better than the Detroit core. Add to that, the Knicks have way more picks than Detroit does, so we have the flexibility to get better in a hurry with the right trade. I don’t think it’ll be Mitchell since Ainge likes to run peoples pockets, but we’ll be better than Detroit for the next five years easily. The pistons were not the right team to use in this example.

I have no pony in this race, but Detroit has one of the most desirable, best fitting young rosters in the league. I would not be surprised at all for them to make a Memphis like climb starting as soon as this year. I just love Cade, Ivey, Duren and Bey. What an exciting team they will have next year! They are sure to be a league pass favorite!

Knicks, well, they will keep on Knicking as long as Dolan’s in control. Very little chance of developing players. Always in win now mode. They would have been so much better to do a Presti style rebuild but that will never happen. When you look up mediocre in the dictionary, the Knicks are on the top of a large heap of teams. But hey at least you got that little sneaker dude who used to make decent movies.

I get it, but everything you just said is based on potential. The Knicks were just a 4 seed a year ago. For all the talk of detroits youth, I think in a blind poll of league executives, Toppin and RJ Barrett would rank higher than Bey and Duren. We’ve yet to see Ivey, and Detroit was a bad team also for longer than the Knicks have been a bad team. If you don’t have faith in the Knicks’ brass or ownership, wtf has Detroit done to make you think they’d be better, besides picking into Cade? Detroit is in the Orlando, Washington, Sacramento, Charlotte class of teams that have consistently had high picks and are still never good. The Knicks have had more recent success than any of those teams, Detroit included. That’s my point. The point of tanking continuously is that you’re going to miss on at least half of your picks. There’s literally no evidence that Detroit won’t be one of the five worst teams for years to come.

Pistons hired Troy Weaver in June 2020.

Bit hard to blame him for anything that happened with the franchise prior to his arrival.

That'd be like blaming Leon Rose for the Knicks poor management

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