The case for Curry and Giannis in the All-Time Top 10

[FluLikeSymptoms]

Curry’s got 4 chips as the man, which only Mikan, Russell, MJ, maybe Shaq(they still played through him in Miami IIRC), Duncan, and LBJ have done, plus FMVP, MVPs,ODB game(ain’t no father to it)- he really has to be there. Giannis is the #2 PF of all time but he’s got to win at least 1 more as the man to get in the conversation for top-10.

[lambchop]

Giannis still has to do more to crack that top 10. 1 ring, 1 DPOY and 2 MVPs won't do it. Probably needs another MVP and 1 or 2 awesome playoff runs (not necessarily culminating in rings).

I see Curry as a top 10 player, though I'm not sure who to remove from the top 10.

[DonaldSanders]

For those saying giannis does not deserve to be in this combo. Outside of rings(which I understand is a big part) what's different between he and curry? Both have been consistently dominant on individual levels, both have individual accolades.

Or is it simply due to rings and # of years of contending/winning?

It's # of years, winning, and the fact that Steph changed the game. Giannis while being a total athletic freak hasn't revolutionized how modern NBA basketball is played, that'll always give Steph a special extra he won't have. But in terms of straight career accomplishments, Giannis definitely could catch up as he's 6 years younger. When Steph was 28 he won his 2nd chip, so trajectory-wise they are pretty similar; both guys needed time in the league to grow to the beasts they became. To me for Giannis to pass Steph he'd need to do more than equal, he'd need to do a little more than Steph given Steph has the bonus "changed the game" value.

Giannis has a long time though! A lot can happen in 6 years.

I don't really see the case for Hakeem above Curry. 2 more titles, one more MVP.

I put Curry over Wilt too.

I agree, but Hakeem's career is pretty polarizing if you talk about him on the PC board. Some view his chips as some all-time great seasons (I've heard some say top 3 all time), while others like me are less impressed that he won the 2 years the Bulls weren't at full strength. Imagine if Curry's only 2 chips/MVP were 2 seasons LeBron didn't play, you would not be as impressed. But a lot of the PC people also don't like MJ/downplay him, so they don't care the Bulls weren't at full strength. I view those years as impressive, but not nearly as valuable as say as winning the Finals between 89-90 to 92-93. Those to me are MJ's most important chips and the high end teams were better than the 93-94 and 94-95 high end teams. All very debatable of course, Hakeem stans will be offended at me saying this stuff

I love Hakeem though; I have him at #11 (just behind Curry who I have at #10) so I don't find it to be a big deal if someone has those spots swapped. Now some will argue 2 of Curry's 4 were easier because of Durant, which is fair, but he's got 4 total and to me is the most important piece as the guy who the entire system is built around.

[lambchop]

Small Forward:
John Havlicek, Larry Bird, Julius Erwing, Lebron James, Kevin Durant, Luka Doncic.

Why do you have Luka listed as an SF? He isn't listed as an SF anywhere. He also never ever plays SF, except on the Slovenian national team at times. He's always out there running point and playing alongside a combo guard. Basketball reference has him as SG his rookie season because DAL was still hopeful about Dennis Smith Jr. They quickly realized Doncic is an awesome PG.

[WarriorGM]

For those saying giannis does not deserve to be in this combo. Outside of rings(which I understand is a big part) what's different between he and curry? Both have been consistently dominant on individual levels, both have individual accolades.

Or is it simply due to rings and # of years of contending/winning?

Let's look at it like a tennis match. Who has Giannis faced and beaten? This part of the resume will naturally improve with more championships but it's rather thin at the moment.

[DimesandKnicks]

The case for Curry is very simple.

Name the greatest NBA team. The Warriors.
Who is the greatest player on that team? Curry.

One can go into other details but the above alone should be sufficient.

Any top ten list that does not have Curry on it will be a joke. It would be like making a list of the top 10 100 meter dash sprinters in history and not having Usain Bolt on it.

?

Lakers and Celtics are by far the greatest NBA teams. Nothing even comes close. Just because you have followed NBA since 2015 doesn't make rest of us forget.

Which Lakers? Which Celtics? We don't even know which version of those teams we're talking about indicate that there are arguments there. When people say the Warriors we know which version of the team they're talking about.

Smh

[DimesandKnicks]

The case for Curry is very simple.

Name the greatest NBA team. The Warriors.
Who is the greatest player on that team? Curry.

One can go into other details but the above alone should be sufficient.

Any top ten list that does not have Curry on it will be a joke. It would be like making a list of the top 10 100 meter dash sprinters in history and not having Usain Bolt on it.

?

Lakers and Celtics are by far the greatest NBA teams. Nothing even comes close. Just because you have followed NBA since 2015 doesn't make rest of us forget.

I think he's talking about in terms of individual teams, in which case he has a valid argument, as the 2017 are arguably the greatest team ever assembled.

I strongly advise not taking anything WarriorGM says seriously. You're talking to a guy who thinks the 2015 Warriors had a weak supporting cast, and his logic here is laughably bad.

With all of that said, Curry's a top ten player of all time. In fact I have him firmly at the number 10 spot as of today. I think he's more than earned that spot too with the incredible body of work he's had and the legacy he's built for himself.

Giannis is not there yet. Can he get there? It kind of feels like he's in a similar situation that LeBron was in when he returned to Cleveland where the expectation was a dynasty, but Curry overshadowed him with what was going on in Golden State, that is until LeBron's Cavs pulled off the 3-1 comeback and made the rest of the world remember who the best player in the world really was. Jokic has overshadowed Giannis and it feels like the Bucks aren't the top dogs in the East anymore. Can that change? Sure, but I'm not liking their chances. They're an aging team and one of their core members is having nagging injury problems.

Steph Curry doesn’t win a championship with Giannis Bucks and Giannis wins championships w Steph’s Warriors. It really does amaze me how so many posters neglect the fact that basketball is a team sport.

[scrabbarista]

Curry's already there, and Giannis isn't particularly close. He can get there, of course. If I had to pick an active guy to get there, I'd pick him. But, even in a best case scenario, he's years away.

[SK21209]

Small Forward:
John Havlicek, Larry Bird, Julius Erwing, Lebron James, Kevin Durant, Luka Doncic.

Why do you have Luka listed as an SF? He isn't listed as an SF anywhere. He also never ever plays SF, except on the Slovenian national team at times. He's always out there running point and playing alongside a combo guard. Basketball reference has him as SG his rookie season because DAL was still hopeful about Dennis Smith Jr. They quickly realized Doncic is an awesome PG.

He's also 6'7" and never guards any point guards, but I guess you could say the same thing about Magic. Luka's closest comp in terms of playstyle is LeBron IMO, and we've all accepted that LeBron is a SF even though he runs point most of the time. Last night the Mavs started Dinwiddie, Hardaway Jr., Finney-Smith and Powell with Luka, so would Hardaway Jr. be the SF? He's listed as the SF on ESPN but is 2 inches shorter than Luka and is listed as a SG on Basketball Reference.

The only actual answer here is that Luka doesn't fit the traditional positional molds. I personally think of him as a SF but it does seem like most just call him a guard in discussion without really specifying between PG and SG.

[WarriorGM]

?

Lakers and Celtics are by far the greatest NBA teams. Nothing even comes close. Just because you have followed NBA since 2015 doesn't make rest of us forget.

I think he's talking about in terms of individual teams, in which case he has a valid argument, as the 2017 are arguably the greatest team ever assembled.

I strongly advise not taking anything WarriorGM says seriously. You're talking to a guy who thinks the 2015 Warriors had a weak supporting cast, and his logic here is laughably bad.

With all of that said, Curry's a top ten player of all time. In fact I have him firmly at the number 10 spot as of today. I think he's more than earned that spot too with the incredible body of work he's had and the legacy he's built for himself.

Giannis is not there yet. Can he get there? It kind of feels like he's in a similar situation that LeBron was in when he returned to Cleveland where the expectation was a dynasty, but Curry overshadowed him with what was going on in Golden State, that is until LeBron's Cavs pulled off the 3-1 comeback and made the rest of the world remember who the best player in the world really was. Jokic has overshadowed Giannis and it feels like the Bucks aren't the top dogs in the East anymore. Can that change? Sure, but I'm not liking their chances. They're an aging team and one of their core members is having nagging injury problems.

Steph Curry doesn’t win a championship with Giannis Bucks and Giannis wins championships w Steph’s Warriors. It really does amaze me how so many posters neglect the fact that basketball is a team sport.

Funny how you need to create imaginary scenarios when there are real ones. Why wouldn't Curry win with the Bucks? He has already won with teams that were two and three years removed from 15-win and 23-win seasons respectively. It really does amaze me that people ignore that Curry's accomplishments are such outliers than they have rarely been emulated by anyone given any other group of teammates.

[Homer38]

Small Forward:
John Havlicek, Larry Bird, Julius Erwing, Lebron James, Kevin Durant, Luka Doncic.

Why do you have Luka listed as an SF? He isn't listed as an SF anywhere. He also never ever plays SF, except on the Slovenian national team at times. He's always out there running point and playing alongside a combo guard. Basketball reference has him as SG his rookie season because DAL was still hopeful about Dennis Smith Jr. They quickly realized Doncic is an awesome PG.

He's also 6'7" and never guards any point guards, but I guess you could say the same thing about Magic. Luka's closest comp in terms of playstyle is LeBron IMO, and we've all accepted that LeBron is a SF even though he runs point most of the time. Last night the Mavs started Dinwiddie, Hardaway Jr., Finney-Smith and Powell with Luka, so would Hardaway Jr. be the SF? He's listed as the SF on ESPN but is 2 inches shorter than Luka and is listed as a SG on Basketball Reference.

The only actual answer here is that Luka doesn't fit the traditional positional molds. I personally think of him as a SF but it does seem like most just call him a guard in discussion without really specifying between PG and SG.

Luka is always listed as a Guard in the all-nba and all-star selection

[wojoaderge]

PG - Magic, Curry
SG - MJ, Kobe
SF - LeBron, Bird
PF - Duncan, Pettit
C - KAJ, Wilt

[DimesandKnicks]

There are too many differences between eras to make comparisons fair. There were times when the rules favored the big man most. There were times that favored the iso-players. These are times when shooters are favored most. Then some guys played on stronger teams or teams that were better tailored to their strengths and weaknesses, for which more credit should be given to their team.

So can we boil down the selection to ten players using a simple method?

The game of basketball requires five players to be on the court per team. Pick the two best players in each position. Those are your Top 10 of All-Time. If Steph and Giannis end up in your Top 2 guys for the Point Guard and Power Forward position, that is their case. Simple is sometimes best and fairest.

Point Guard:
Oscar Robertson, Magic Johnson, John Stockton, Isaiah Thomas, Steve Nash, Steph Curry.

Shooting Guard:
Jerry West, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, James Harden.

Small Forward:
John Havlicek, Larry Bird, Julius Erwing, Lebron James, Kevin Durant, Luka Doncic.

Power Forward:
Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitzki, Giannis Antetokounmpo.

(The Power Forward position is giving me the most trouble. It is really hard to choose two here compared to other positions. Malone and Barkley played PF for most of their careers but did not win a ring. Duncan separates himself from the others with 5 rings but played PF for half his career and had better teams. KG won less rings but has the best statistics. Dirk was a below average defender but provides the best offense and spacing.)

Center:
Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaquille O'neale, Nikola Jokic.

So who are your Top 2 in each position?

to be a TOP10 GOAT (i think all top10s are goats in their own way), MY last criteria is "who has the biggest legacy". who contributed the most to the game,,,,,,because you can forget everything that requires era comparisons. the one thing that traverses simple hard numbers is the legacy they leave behind.

and if i go by your thread TITLE - "all time top10", i think that overrides position as a criteria. if it's "by position" then say "by position".

so not going by position and in no special order
russell,,,wilt,,,kareem,,,oscar,,,magic,,,bird,,,drJ,,,mj,,,lebron,,,
and you can pick between kobe, shaq, west, curry

i hated leaving west out but by my criteria he had the least resume (mr.clutch and the logo are not enough imo)
i don't care for lebron but he's had a massive presense in the millenium
giannis doesn't cut it based on that as well. he'd have to add a couple of rings to make me feel his athleticism is enuf to get into the club because everyone else has more than just skills and numbers

if by position
kareem, russell
tim, giannis
bird, drJ
mj, kobe
magic, oscar

I think it should actually be about who the best players are. Your legacy is highly dependent on what organization you end up on. And fans ask why guys are demanding trades.

[SK21209]

I've got Steph at #10 in my personal Top 10, barely edging out Shaq and Hakeem. To break the Top 10 I think we need to see continued dominance from Giannis, as well as that "second-act" of his career. Curry just won the 4th title with an entirely new cast than the first 3 besides diminished versions of Klay and Draymond. Kobe got the two rings with Pau after Shaq left. LeBron has the Cleveland and LA titles after the Heat run. Duncan's Spurs had that second run from 2012-2016 and won the 2014 title. The best guys are able to reinvent themselves a bit and mount a second run after the early career success. It feels like the Bucks core around Giannis is starting to age out, I want to see him adapt his game as the athleticism starts to wane and lead a new group to contention.

[DimesandKnicks]

I think he's talking about in terms of individual teams, in which case he has a valid argument, as the 2017 are arguably the greatest team ever assembled.

I strongly advise not taking anything WarriorGM says seriously. You're talking to a guy who thinks the 2015 Warriors had a weak supporting cast, and his logic here is laughably bad.

With all of that said, Curry's a top ten player of all time. In fact I have him firmly at the number 10 spot as of today. I think he's more than earned that spot too with the incredible body of work he's had and the legacy he's built for himself.

Giannis is not there yet. Can he get there? It kind of feels like he's in a similar situation that LeBron was in when he returned to Cleveland where the expectation was a dynasty, but Curry overshadowed him with what was going on in Golden State, that is until LeBron's Cavs pulled off the 3-1 comeback and made the rest of the world remember who the best player in the world really was. Jokic has overshadowed Giannis and it feels like the Bucks aren't the top dogs in the East anymore. Can that change? Sure, but I'm not liking their chances. They're an aging team and one of their core members is having nagging injury problems.

Steph Curry doesn’t win a championship with Giannis Bucks and Giannis wins championships w Steph’s Warriors. It really does amaze me how so many posters neglect the fact that basketball is a team sport.

Funny how you need to create imaginary scenarios when there are real ones. Why wouldn't Curry win with the Bucks? He has already won with teams that were two and three years removed from 15-win and 23-win seasons respectively. It really does amaze me that people ignore that Curry's accomplishments are such outliers than they have rarely been emulated by anyone given any other group of teammates.

Because Curry has played on really good teams. Teams so good he was only deemed the most impactful player in the finals once. He doesn’t win a championship with Bucks, and people putting him over Kobe now?!! He doesn’t win championships on those Gasoline Bynum Odom teams either.

The Warriors accomplishments*

[xdrta+]

Steph Curry doesn’t win a championship with Giannis Bucks and Giannis wins championships w Steph’s Warriors.

And you know this how??

[DimesandKnicks]

Steph Curry doesn’t win a championship with Giannis Bucks and Giannis wins championships w Steph’s Warriors.

And you know this how??

I can transport in an out of an alternate universe where people recognize basketball as a team/organization sport and understand the importance of things like rebounding, defense and passing. Not this weird one where shooting and scoring efficiently is the end all be all.

[HMFFL]

Neither is top 10. Stop it. I would pick neither in my top 5 starting lineups.

Also Jerry West is PG.

So who are your Top 2 from each position?

Magic
Jordan
Lebron
Duncan
Kareem

Big O
Bryant
Bird
Garnett
Wilt

West
Wade
Durant
Malone
Russell

Curry
Harden
Havlicek
Nowitzki
Shaq

Giannis wouldn't even make my next list. Curry just edges his peers and makes to the last list because double MVP.

Just out of curiosity, why are you so high on Wade?

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

[WarriorGM]

Steph Curry doesn’t win a championship with Giannis Bucks and Giannis wins championships w Steph’s Warriors. It really does amaze me how so many posters neglect the fact that basketball is a team sport.

Funny how you need to create imaginary scenarios when there are real ones. Why wouldn't Curry win with the Bucks? He has already won with teams that were two and three years removed from 15-win and 23-win seasons respectively. It really does amaze me that people ignore that Curry's accomplishments are such outliers than they have rarely been emulated by anyone given any other group of teammates.

Because Curry has played on really good teams. Teams so good he was only deemed the most impactful player in the finals once. He doesn’t win a championship with Bucks, and people putting him over Kobe now?!! He doesn’t win championships on those Gasoline Bynum Odom teams either.

The Warriors accomplishments*

You should find yourself right at home in the "Curry has been totally exposed thread" from two years ago. You sound like someone straight out of it. One would have thought people would be more aware but carry on. That you're still going on along the same lines after what has happened is cute.

[ReddoverKobe]

Magic
Jordan
Lebron
Duncan
Kareem

Big O
Bryant
Bird
Garnett
Wilt

West
Wade
Durant
Malone
Russell

Curry
Harden
Havlicek
Nowitzki
Shaq

Giannis wouldn't even make my next list. Curry just edges his peers and makes to the last list because double MVP.

Harden over Giannis lol. I've seen some bad takes but this is skip level lol

Giannis is shooting guard now? I've seen terrible takes on this forum but this might take the cake.

Settle down James the way you listed things seemed like you were ranking Harden over him and I did not read what the OP wanted.