Fred VanVleet Specifically Calls Out Referee Ben Taylor and NBA Reffing

[payton2kemp]

This was the 2nd straight game where the Raptors came out with an early lead and the refs immediately started calling fouls only on the Raptors to change the momentum. This kind of game gardening makes for good entertainment but is frustrating for players. They deserve the right to complain. Refs need to chill out. Either call it straight or accept that how you influence games is going to lead to emotional outbursts. These guys do not lose jobs when they fail. Players and coaches do.

Just for a bit more context...Toronto jumped out to a 34-29 lead against Denver after 12 minutes on Monday in which Toronto was called for 2 fouls (2 DEN FTA) and Denver was called for 6 fouls (10 TOR FTA). The rest of the game Toronto was called for 18 fouls (21 DEN FTA) while Denver was called for just 6 fouls (10 TOR FTA). Then Toronto jumped out to a 25-17 lead against Los Angeles after 12 minutes last night in which Toronto was called for 5 fouls (8 LAC FTA) and Los Angeles was called for 3 fouls (4 TOR FTA). The rest of the game Toronto was called for 18 fouls (23 LAC FTA) while Los Angeles was called for 15 fouls (10 TOR FTA). Those are huge swings.

The whistle hasn't been very kind to Toronto on this road trip as a whole. They're averaging 16.3 FTA (-8.0 compared to season average) while opponents are averaging 25.0 FTA (+1.6 compared to season average against opponents) in the first 4 games. It's not like their opponents are typically teams that dominate the battle of the paint/free throw line either; the Wizards (+0.7 FTA disparity and +0.0 PITP disparity), Nuggets (-0.9 FTA disparity and +1.8 PITP disparity) and Clippers (+1.5 FTA disparity and -6.3 PITP disparity) are all teams that the Raptors (+0.9 FTA disparity and +2.8 PITP disparity) should theoretically have an advantage when it comes to scoring at the line and in the paint, but it seems like every call has been going against them.

I'm surprised something like this wasn't said after the Denver game, but it makes sense why FVV went off after last night's game. There were a lot of bad calls/non-calls that went against Toronto while the Clippers were fighting their way back into the game then taking control, especially in the 4th quarter where LAC had a 13-4 advantage at the line. Considering the weak tech assessed to FVV while also taking into account the FVV/Taylor history this season (3 of FVV's 8 techs have been directly called by Taylor in just 6 games while 2 others were called in games Taylor was also officiating), it becomes a lot more clear why FVV went off in the post-game presser.

The Raptors don't have anyone thats aggressive one to get FT's at a high rate. Every fan thinks their team is getting hosed, there is no bias against the Raptors. No need to play the victem card.

[Thaddy]

This was the 2nd straight game where the Raptors came out with an early lead and the refs immediately started calling fouls only on the Raptors to change the momentum. This kind of game gardening makes for good entertainment but is frustrating for players. They deserve the right to complain. Refs need to chill out. Either call it straight or accept that how you influence games is going to lead to emotional outbursts. These guys do not lose jobs when they fail. Players and coaches do.

Just for a bit more context...Toronto jumped out to a 34-29 lead against Denver after 12 minutes on Monday in which Toronto was called for 2 fouls (2 DEN FTA) and Denver was called for 6 fouls (10 TOR FTA). The rest of the game Toronto was called for 18 fouls (21 DEN FTA) while Denver was called for just 6 fouls (10 TOR FTA). Then Toronto jumped out to a 25-17 lead against Los Angeles after 12 minutes last night in which Toronto was called for 5 fouls (8 LAC FTA) and Los Angeles was called for 3 fouls (4 TOR FTA). The rest of the game Toronto was called for 18 fouls (23 LAC FTA) while Los Angeles was called for 15 fouls (10 TOR FTA). Those are huge swings.

The whistle hasn't been very kind to Toronto on this road trip as a whole. They're averaging 16.3 FTA (-8.0 compared to season average) while opponents are averaging 25.0 FTA (+1.6 compared to season average against opponents) in the first 4 games. It's not like their opponents are typically teams that dominate the battle of the paint/free throw line either; the Wizards (+0.7 FTA disparity and +0.0 PITP disparity), Nuggets (-0.9 FTA disparity and +1.8 PITP disparity) and Clippers (+1.5 FTA disparity and -6.3 PITP disparity) are all teams that the Raptors (+0.9 FTA disparity and +2.8 PITP disparity) should theoretically have an advantage when it comes to scoring at the line and in the paint, but it seems like every call has been going against them.

I'm surprised something like this wasn't said after the Denver game, but it makes sense why FVV went off after last night's game. There were a lot of bad calls/non-calls that went against Toronto while the Clippers were fighting their way back into the game then taking control, especially in the 4th quarter where LAC had a 13-4 advantage at the line. Considering the weak tech assessed to FVV while also taking into account the FVV/Taylor history this season (3 of FVV's 8 techs have been directly called by Taylor in just 6 games while 2 others were called in games Taylor was also officiating), it becomes a lot more clear why FVV went off in the post-game presser.

The Raptors don't have anyone thats aggressive one to get FT's at a high rate. Every fan thinks their team is getting hosed, there is no bias against the Raptors. No need to play the victem card.

The Raptors win the possession battle most games. They attack the paint more than they shoot threes. They should be a top FTA team in the league. It is just logical.

But you have refs taking calls from league officials letting them know how much "physicality" they're allowing that game. Is that a part of the sport called basketball.

[Michael Jordan]

Let's see more players take fines and call out specific officials for poor conduct.

[pingpongrac]

This was the 2nd straight game where the Raptors came out with an early lead and the refs immediately started calling fouls only on the Raptors to change the momentum. This kind of game gardening makes for good entertainment but is frustrating for players. They deserve the right to complain. Refs need to chill out. Either call it straight or accept that how you influence games is going to lead to emotional outbursts. These guys do not lose jobs when they fail. Players and coaches do.

Just for a bit more context...Toronto jumped out to a 34-29 lead against Denver after 12 minutes on Monday in which Toronto was called for 2 fouls (2 DEN FTA) and Denver was called for 6 fouls (10 TOR FTA). The rest of the game Toronto was called for 18 fouls (21 DEN FTA) while Denver was called for just 6 fouls (10 TOR FTA). Then Toronto jumped out to a 25-17 lead against Los Angeles after 12 minutes last night in which Toronto was called for 5 fouls (8 LAC FTA) and Los Angeles was called for 3 fouls (4 TOR FTA). The rest of the game Toronto was called for 18 fouls (23 LAC FTA) while Los Angeles was called for 15 fouls (10 TOR FTA). Those are huge swings.

The whistle hasn't been very kind to Toronto on this road trip as a whole. They're averaging 16.3 FTA (-8.0 compared to season average) while opponents are averaging 25.0 FTA (+1.6 compared to season average against opponents) in the first 4 games. It's not like their opponents are typically teams that dominate the battle of the paint/free throw line either; the Wizards (+0.7 FTA disparity and +0.0 PITP disparity), Nuggets (-0.9 FTA disparity and +1.8 PITP disparity) and Clippers (+1.5 FTA disparity and -6.3 PITP disparity) are all teams that the Raptors (+0.9 FTA disparity and +2.8 PITP disparity) should theoretically have an advantage when it comes to scoring at the line and in the paint, but it seems like every call has been going against them.

I'm surprised something like this wasn't said after the Denver game, but it makes sense why FVV went off after last night's game. There were a lot of bad calls/non-calls that went against Toronto while the Clippers were fighting their way back into the game then taking control, especially in the 4th quarter where LAC had a 13-4 advantage at the line. Considering the weak tech assessed to FVV while also taking into account the FVV/Taylor history this season (3 of FVV's 8 techs have been directly called by Taylor in just 6 games while 2 others were called in games Taylor was also officiating), it becomes a lot more clear why FVV went off in the post-game presser.

The Raptors don't have anyone thats aggressive one to get FT's at a high rate. Every fan thinks their team is getting hosed, there is no bias against the Raptors. No need to play the victem card.

Toronto as a team is middle of the pack in points in the paint (13th) and FTr (17th) while they are also middle of the pack at limiting their opponents (11th in OPP PITP and 22nd in OPP FTr) which leads one to believe they're an average team at scoring inside/generating FTA as well as an average team at limiting opponents from scoring inside/generating FTA.

Toronto has players that attack the paint/generate FTA at a pretty high rate. For example, Siakam is top 20 in both PITP and FTr; he averages 12 PITP and 7 FTA on the season, but he only has a total of 9 FTA despite scoring 28 PITP and taking most of his shots there as well (37 of 65) so far on this road trip. Kuzma and Porzingis both had nearly as many FTA in the first matchup (8 for Kuzma and 7 for Porzingis) as Siakam has had in 4 games while Jokic/Gordon/Brown had 6 FTA each and Kawhi had 9 FTA in the last two games. That's pretty fishy.

[azcatz11]

Wow - he absolutely nailed it! Great delivery also. He is a great public speaker.

If the refs didn't have an ego - it would literally solve everything. I love the passion. He should run for the new president of the players association

[NBA4Lyfe]

nba players are the biggest whiners in all of sports

[1995]

I think the big problem is that virtually every foul nowadays is a touch foul..it just gives the refs too much control on the momentum of the game and key moments. Every possession there's a foul that can be called on either team due to incidental contact, the refs are basically picking and choosing what to call..it's too much power and of course some of them get an ego and abuse it.

They just gotta start letting incidental contact go and only call clear fouls, with massive 60 inchs and 4k video it's rare I see a foul in real time and often in slo mo it seems debatable, because the rules are so soft about contact!

[floppymoose]

Did anyone see the tech on Poole in the OKC game? I haven't seen the FVV tech, but the Poole tech was the weakest I've seen since the "Duncan laugh".

[floppymoose]

nba players are the biggest whiners in all of sports

mlb says hold my beer

[BoatsNZones]

nba players are the biggest whiners in all of sports

mlb says hold my beer

Lol? It is a near auto-ejection if a pitcher or batter argues a ball or strike, which rarely occurs. If they think a basepath play is called wrong they just go to the replay (nobody ever complains). Viewing entire games with no complaints from the players is not rare (the managers are allowed a little leeway to shout some complaints from the dugout, but even that will be curbed with an ejection if they get out of line). In the NBA otoh, it's extremely rare to watch a 5 minute stretch currently where there are not multiple complaints. It's somewhat a problem with the nature of the game to have so much subjectivity involved in the rules, and somewhat a problem with the general nature of current NBA culture. But no, MLB definitely does not outwhine the NBA

[jlokine]

i m surprised the consequence of that rant hasnt been handed down

[balla4lyf23]

This is embarrassing- crying to media about it - file a complaint.

I think it’s embarrassing how much players complain to refs. We tell kids in rec leagues to play the game and not talk to refs. I don’t know when we normalized players complaining on every call or constantly talking with refs. It’s so disrespectful to the extremely tough job they have and it takes away so much from the watchability of the game.

I’d go full reverse and say from now on any talking to a ref is an automatic technical. Any demonstration toward a ref is a technical. And let the players union decide on referees and how they are measured, rated, etc. Let the players be the ones deciding who the refs are but take away the ability of in game complaining.

its painfully obvious you didnt watch the game.

[Texas Chuck]

I agree it is annoying for the most part, but I mean Fred has 8 techs this year and 5(!!) Are from Ben Taylor.

LOL what?!?
If that isn't a case of bias, I don't know what is.

Maybe. But considering Fred's comments it could be Fred is far less respectful to Taylor and deserved the techs. This in and of itself is no proof of bias obviously.

[old skool]

Reading the text of VanVleet's comments, I find his basic premise to be patently absurd.

1. He says that in most games there are 1 or 2 officials that f*** the game up.

2. He says that "Then you have the others who just want to be dicks and just kind of f*** up the game".

The idea that most NBA games are not decided by players and make the game bad is obviously an exaggeration. An absurd exaggeration.

The idea that some refs don't try to officiate fairly and are on the court to be "dicks" and purposely mess up games is a scathing accusation that would be impossible to know and should not be stated without direct knowledge. That is a direct attack on the integrity of the NBA.

Yes, NBA refs only get about 90% of all calls right. They are wrong 10% of the time. That results in dozens of missed or wrong calls every game. But VanVleet is out of line exaggerating that most games are messed up by 1 or 2 refs. VanVleet is out of line impugning the reputation of NBA refs by saying that some of them just want to be dicks and mess up the game. VanVleet is out of line using vulgar language in a professional setting. He undermines any legitimate point that he could be making with extreme exaggeration, unsubstantiated broad attacks on integrity and immature language that demonstrates a personal lack of self control. VanVleet complains about the refs but he does not mention or acknowledge the NBA system for reviewing every call/no call in every game, the way that every NBA ref is held accountable for their calls by the other two refs on the crew and by supervisors who review every call they make, and that NBA refs who fail to meet standards are fined, disciplined and fired.

Maybe Ben Taylor dislikes VanVleet and unfairly calls techs on him. Maybe VanVleet dislikes Taylor and repeatedly crosses the line of appropriate player conduct. Both men are human, with pride, egos, and differing perspectives. Simple minds gravitate to simple conclusions. The reality is likely more nuanced than presented by one side or the other.

Heck, maybe Taylor's wife just had a baby and the newborn has him cranky from being awake all night. You never know.

[floppymoose]

nba players are the biggest whiners in all of sports

mlb says hold my beer

Lol? It is a near auto-ejection if a pitcher or batter argues a ball or strike, which rarely occurs.

They whine about different things. I wasn't talking specifically about refs.

[Karate Diop]

This Raptors team seems like they're at the end of their rope... They need a soft reset with a clear direction. One step back, two steps forward.

[dockingsched]

Did anyone see the tech on Poole in the OKC game? I haven't seen the FVV tech, but the Poole tech was the weakest I've seen since the "Duncan laugh".

That one was fair, Poole trying to be a sneaky little **** thinking it’s not obvious what he’s trying to do.

[Rockazoids]

In the games against the Knicks the Raptors were able to push, shove, hack & whack, but you didn't hear him bitching about that.
I think it's more about being 4 games under 500 and shooting poor when he wanted to opt out & sign a new deal.

[jbk1234]

Just for a bit more context...Toronto jumped out to a 34-29 lead against Denver after 12 minutes on Monday in which Toronto was called for 2 fouls (2 DEN FTA) and Denver was called for 6 fouls (10 TOR FTA). The rest of the game Toronto was called for 18 fouls (21 DEN FTA) while Denver was called for just 6 fouls (10 TOR FTA). Then Toronto jumped out to a 25-17 lead against Los Angeles after 12 minutes last night in which Toronto was called for 5 fouls (8 LAC FTA) and Los Angeles was called for 3 fouls (4 TOR FTA). The rest of the game Toronto was called for 18 fouls (23 LAC FTA) while Los Angeles was called for 15 fouls (10 TOR FTA). Those are huge swings.

The whistle hasn't been very kind to Toronto on this road trip as a whole. They're averaging 16.3 FTA (-8.0 compared to season average) while opponents are averaging 25.0 FTA (+1.6 compared to season average against opponents) in the first 4 games. It's not like their opponents are typically teams that dominate the battle of the paint/free throw line either; the Wizards (+0.7 FTA disparity and +0.0 PITP disparity), Nuggets (-0.9 FTA disparity and +1.8 PITP disparity) and Clippers (+1.5 FTA disparity and -6.3 PITP disparity) are all teams that the Raptors (+0.9 FTA disparity and +2.8 PITP disparity) should theoretically have an advantage when it comes to scoring at the line and in the paint, but it seems like every call has been going against them.

I'm surprised something like this wasn't said after the Denver game, but it makes sense why FVV went off after last night's game. There were a lot of bad calls/non-calls that went against Toronto while the Clippers were fighting their way back into the game then taking control, especially in the 4th quarter where LAC had a 13-4 advantage at the line. Considering the weak tech assessed to FVV while also taking into account the FVV/Taylor history this season (3 of FVV's 8 techs have been directly called by Taylor in just 6 games while 2 others were called in games Taylor was also officiating), it becomes a lot more clear why FVV went off in the post-game presser.

The Raptors don't have anyone thats aggressive one to get FT's at a high rate. Every fan thinks their team is getting hosed, there is no bias against the Raptors. No need to play the victem card.

The Raptors win the possession battle most games. They attack the paint more than they shoot threes. They should be a top FTA team in the league. It is just logical.

But you have refs taking calls from league officials letting them know how much "physicality" they're allowing that game. Is that a part of the sport called basketball.

The Raptors have no business complaining about the officiating. They're athletic, but not skilled which is why it's easy to frustrate them inside playing perfectly legal defense. A lot of their guys still drop their shoulders into defenders and expect to get the call despite initiating the contact. The thing is, they're not even good at ref baiting, it's entirely too obvious that they're looking for the call and not the conversion.

Defensively, they reach all the time. No other team gambles that much. The idea that they're going to get away with that for 82 games, 48 minutes a game, home or away is delusional. It's one thing to play a certain way and then adjust to how a game is being called. It's something quite different to expect that you should be allowed to foul on a consistent basis.

[VancouverRaps]

We all have gripes with NBA officials. It's a tough gig... and sometimes... they're bad at it.

But in a league that's tilted quite a bit toward certain players and encourages their entitlement... I find players incessantly whining about EVERY call pretty tedious, too. I imagine I'm not alone.

Good calls, bad calls, ANY call... certain players (we know who they are) are going to complain. And this is part of the overall officiating dilemma.

Inconsistent officiating + consistent complaining about calls = frustration for fans

I agree that the players whining after every drive to the basket is tiresome for the fans and refs. But the refs lose me when they call a tech on Fred for telling his team to play through the bull and toss Barnes from a close game late in the 4th while everyone(including other officials) on the court is wondering why.

Meanwhile you have guys like Draymond who’ll scream at a ref with his arms up in the air and get away with it sometimes. Hell, even as a Raps fan I get annoyed by Nick Nurse sometimes going at the refs after they’ve clearly made the right call.

Not to mention the growing trend of calling fouls after seeing if the shot goes in or not.

The league has gone down a slippery slope and it’s now difficult to fix this. Both the refs and players are out of control and the officiating variance game to game is ridiculous.

It all feels random and frankly it’s killing my passion for the nba.