Suns complain about Giannis FT attempts after hacking him all night. Footage included.

[ReddoverKobe]

You literally just argued a minute ago that Giannis gets a favorable whistle, but that this whistle is earned due to his accolades.

And now you're saying he doesn't get favorable treatmentt.

That seems to be a bit of a contradictory message.



Again, I support Monty's message of game be officiated equally, regardless of who has the ball in his hands. It's good that you seem to have changed your mind and agree now with Monty Williams that there should be no special charity cases, and that the game should be called objectively. Like I said before, this type of dialogue is how issues get resolved.

What issue? Your coach crying and refusing to change his defense? Not sure how thats a league issue

It's a league wide issue because it's not just the Suns who are seeing this kind of treatment. Take off your tinted glasses and open your eyes, homer. FFS.

And yet I watched the game, watched all the fouls tweeted out after destroying all of this pathetic whining. If you have some new video evidence I would love to see it by the way

[jimmybones]

It's mind bending that anyone can think Giannis - a physical freak who plays with a relenting urge to get to the rim - and the Suns shooting mid range jump shots should get an equal amount of free throws.

[Dennis Reynolds]

However, I do think his style of play can be detrimental in the playoffs. Opposing teams can key in on him and build the wall, and as a result his FTr and thus TS% tend to drop considerably in the playoffs, much more than other stars.

I think in the past that was fair, not so much now. He held at a 60TS% in each of the two playoff campaigns prior to last season. You saw the considerable drop off last season because his complete lack of help when it came to secondary and tertiary scoring. Just a massive weight to carry with Middleton out and Jrue going crickets to the tune of a 46TS%.

Giannis posted 51.6TS% against the Celtics. What do you call that if you consider Jrue's 46TS% going crickets? I still have no idea why people keep using production against 1st fodder teams as some sort of argument for their favorite player. From stars like Harden to scrubs like Simmons this argument never ceses to amaze.

That aside, Giannis averaged just under 33 mins a game, missed 17 regular season games last season and played only 34 mpg in what was a very easy series against the Bulls and you're telling me he couldn't carry the load for 1 whole series?

[ReddoverKobe]

However, I do think his style of play can be detrimental in the playoffs. Opposing teams can key in on him and build the wall, and as a result his FTr and thus TS% tend to drop considerably in the playoffs, much more than other stars.

I think in the past that was fair, not so much now. He held at a 60TS% in each of the two playoff campaigns prior to last season. You saw the considerable drop off last season because his complete lack of help when it came to secondary and tertiary scoring. Just a massive weight to carry with Middleton out and Jrue going crickets to the tune of a 46TS%.

Giannis posted 51.6TS% against the Celtics. What do you call that if you consider Jrue's 46TS% going crickets? I still have no idea why people keep using production against 1st fodder teams as some sort of argument for their favorite player. From stars like Harden to scrubs like Simmons this argument never ceses to amaze.

That aside, Giannis averaged just under 33 mins a game, missed 17 regular season games last season and played only 34 mpg in what was a very easy series against the Bulls and you're telling me he couldn't carry the load for 1 whole series?

The Celtics were really good last year. They also had a coach with a game plan instead of crying after the game.

[skones]

However, I do think his style of play can be detrimental in the playoffs. Opposing teams can key in on him and build the wall, and as a result his FTr and thus TS% tend to drop considerably in the playoffs, much more than other stars.

I think in the past that was fair, not so much now. He held at a 60TS% in each of the two playoff campaigns prior to last season. You saw the considerable drop off last season because his complete lack of help when it came to secondary and tertiary scoring. Just a massive weight to carry with Middleton out and Jrue going crickets to the tune of a 46TS%.

Giannis posted 51.6TS% against the Celtics. What do you call that if you consider Jrue's 46TS% going crickets? I still have no idea why people keep using production against 1st fodder teams as some sort of argument for their favorite player. From stars like Harden to scrubs like Simmons this argument never ceses to amaze.

That aside, Giannis averaged just under 33 mins a game, missed 17 regular season games last season and played only 34 mpg in what was a very easy series against the Bulls and you're telling me he couldn't carry the load for 1 whole series?

LOL. How many guys in this league can handle 3 and 4 guys sent at them possession after possession for a 7 game series with no help? There's been only one in the last twenty years. "couldn't carry the load for 1 whole series?" Just go ahead and ignore the context of that statement.

[dockingsched]

I don’t understand: do people believe the league is trying to prop up the *Milwaukee* Bucks? Is that implication here?


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Just cause someone complains about officiating doesn’t mean they think there’s a league wide conspiracy. Sometimes they think some refs are just bad at their job.

Sure. But if they’re “just bad at their job” then the errors would go both ways. But that’s not the complaint. In fact, that’d be the opposite of the complaint.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Not really, people can complain about specific types of foul calls that disproportionately affect one team over another. Specific calls that refs can be worse at getting right.

[Dennis Reynolds]

I think in the past that was fair, not so much now. He held at a 60TS% in each of the two playoff campaigns prior to last season. You saw the considerable drop off last season because his complete lack of help when it came to secondary and tertiary scoring. Just a massive weight to carry with Middleton out and Jrue going crickets to the tune of a 46TS%.

Giannis posted 51.6TS% against the Celtics. What do you call that if you consider Jrue's 46TS% going crickets? I still have no idea why people keep using production against 1st fodder teams as some sort of argument for their favorite player. From stars like Harden to scrubs like Simmons this argument never ceses to amaze.

That aside, Giannis averaged just under 33 mins a game, missed 17 regular season games last season and played only 34 mpg in what was a very easy series against the Bulls and you're telling me he couldn't carry the load for 1 whole series?

LOL. How many guys in this league can handle 3 and 4 guys sent at them possession after possession for a 7 game series with no help? There's been only one in the last twenty years. "couldn't carry the load for 1 whole series?" Just go ahead and ignore the context of that statement.

I think it's a fair expectation to have for an MVP level player. I never have this ridiculous expectation that the best player on the court needs to take out superior teams by himself but I don't see how it's wrong to criticize a player for a massive drop off in his efficiency, especially when you criticized his 2nd option for the very same thing. While we're at it, you also didn't answer my 1st question.

The reason I said 1 whole series is to point out that Giannis had plenty of rest before that series, it's not like he had to kill himself just to make it to the 2nd round.

[Hitachi77]

Lots of strawmanning going on here btw. The issue brought off wasn’t that Giannis got more free throws than Booker. Of course he did. It’s the disparity. 24 to 3. It’s not 20-10 or 19-8, more believable disparities. Booker drives a ton, enough to say that only 3 FTs would be quite the anomaly.

[Hitachi77]

I honestly don't think this was an offensive foul despite a lot of people in this thread thinking it was obvious. Giannis beat Craig with the stutter and had an open lane into the paint for a dunk if Craig doesn't try to draw the foul from the side. Craig was way out of position, and it isn't an offensive foul just because Giannis knocked him on his ass.

https://youtu.be/2E8iefDgWmk?t=26

Giannis lowered his shoulder into Craig at bull speed. Craig wasn’t “way” out of position.

[Hitachi77]

The clear offensive foul makes me want to see how many offensive charges have been called on Giannis this year. I am guessing less than 15.

Well, that's a terrible guess. He's been called for 50 offensive fouls this season in 54 games. Sabonis leads the league with 51 in 65 games.

Well not all offensive fouls are charges. Though yeah, at least 30 of the 50 are probably charges.

[Pachinko_]

Ι think what Giannis does kinda falls in a gap in the NBA rules.

The NBA rules talk about the offensive player dribbling in a "straight line" to the basket, but they don't say what happens when the player constantly weaves and eurosteps into the defender which is often what Giannis does. The rules talk about the defender taking a "legal guarding position", but they don't clarify what that is exactly and if the defender needs to try and get his feet set, or not.

So we all think we know what an offensive foul is but if you read the rule word for word in reality we don't, at least in the NBA we don't. And the refs have to make a call regardless. You would hope that at least the refs would make that call consistently, but they don't, they seem as confused as everybody else (intentionally or unintentionally). And that leaves both Giannis fans and Giannis opponents complaining. It's a mess.

[skones]

Giannis posted 51.6TS% against the Celtics. What do you call that if you consider Jrue's 46TS% going crickets? I still have no idea why people keep using production against 1st fodder teams as some sort of argument for their favorite player. From stars like Harden to scrubs like Simmons this argument never ceses to amaze.

That aside, Giannis averaged just under 33 mins a game, missed 17 regular season games last season and played only 34 mpg in what was a very easy series against the Bulls and you're telling me he couldn't carry the load for 1 whole series?

LOL. How many guys in this league can handle 3 and 4 guys sent at them possession after possession for a 7 game series with no help? There's been only one in the last twenty years. "couldn't carry the load for 1 whole series?" Just go ahead and ignore the context of that statement.

I think it's a fair expectation to have for an MVP level player. I never have this ridiculous expectation that the best player on the court needs to take out superior teams by himself but I don't see how it's wrong to criticize a player for a massive drop off in his efficiency, especially when you criticized his 2nd option for the very same thing. While we're at it, you also didn't answer my 1st question.

The reason I said 1 whole series is to point out that Giannis had plenty of rest before that series, it's not like he had to kill himself just to make it to the 2nd round.

Well then follow your own advice and give credit where credit is due. Giannis dragged his team to a 7 game series against the Eastern Conference Champion efficiency be damned. If I'm calling 21, 6, and 3 on that TS% crickets, you better believe I'm going to think a lot higher of the guy who's going for 34, 15, and 7.

I don't know how anyone could watch that Boston/Mke series and think that wasn't an exhausting slugfest in which both teams killed themselves independently of their first round matchup.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Don't foul him, or get in the gym so you're built similar to him and can put up more resistance. Either way, the whining just means they have no answer for him, which is the same for the other 29 teams.

[buckboy]

It's always hilarious when coaches/players/fans cry about how many free throws Giannis shoots when 75% of the time he's fouled it's intentional because Giannis is not a good free throw shooter.

Teams before the game: Foul Giannis, don't let him get anything easy. Make him have to make free throws.

Teams after the game, after playing hack-a-Giannis after they lose: This is so unfair, he shoots so many free throws.

The problem isnt how many fouls Giannis shot, but that the Bucks and Suns didn't shoot equal amounts. The refs job is to make sure the number is relatively balanced between the two teams and they failed to do that here. Wasn't even close.

The **** are you talking about?

Complete nonsense.

[buckboy]

The clear offensive foul makes me want to see how many offensive charges have been called on Giannis this year. I am guessing less than 15.

Well, that's a terrible guess. He's been called for 50 offensive fouls this season in 54 games. Sabonis leads the league with 51 in 65 games.

Thanks. I had the number 70 in my head.

[og15]

Didn't watch the game so I don't know if the Suns didn't get similar calls. Could have happened, refs can be subjective in what specific types of plays they are calling as fouls in a game.

Block/charge is also the bane of NBA referring, but as we even see when fans discuss it, it's not clear cut even when people are watching in replay vs trying to call it live.

[ReddoverKobe]

Lots of strawmanning going on here btw. The issue brought off wasn’t that Giannis got more free throws than Booker. Of course he did. It’s the disparity. 24 to 3. It’s not 20-10 or 19-8, more believable disparities. Booker drives a ton, enough to say that only 3 FTs would be quite the anomaly.

What do you think the bucks game plan was last night?

[Pachinko_]

Don't foul him, or get in the gym so you're built similar to him and can put up more resistance. Either way, the whining just means they have no answer for him, which is the same for the other 29 teams.

Well you can also just set your feet in front of him and get hit, it's not like it hasn't been done before, this is what Grant Williams did last year in the playoffs and got a bunch of offensive fouls called on Giannis which was one of the reasons Bucks lost the series. If you actually set your feet I promise you the NBA refs always call it a charge.

Like I said before the ambiguity starts only when the defender is also moving and doesn't make any effort to beat the dribbler to the spot and clearly occupy that spot by putting both feet on the floor for a split second. The NBA rules are very unclear what happens then, and of course Giannis will exploit that lack of clarity, he's not stupid.

[SkyBill40]

What issue? Your coach crying and refusing to change his defense? Not sure how thats a league issue

It's a league wide issue because it's not just the Suns who are seeing this kind of treatment. Take off your tinted glasses and open your eyes, homer. FFS.

And yet I watched the game, watched all the fouls tweeted out after destroying all of this pathetic whining. If you have some new video evidence I would love to see it by the way

You see things your way and Suns fans will see theirs. There's no real middle ground to be had here. A truly honest fan would have enough sense to see and understand the complaints in an objective manner, but there's little to no chance of that happening with you given the dialogue you've already had to this point.

You're not an authority or have a better understanding than anyone else taking part in this, myself included, and putting forth the notion that you are is a pretty laughable logical fallacy. Just own it and move on.

To that end, the officiating in GENERAL has been laughably bad and incredibly frustrating for at least five years now, with it continuing to get worse. Huge disparities in free throw attempts are but one facet in a practical cornucopia of officiating woes, and even the league office has acknowledged there's been some pretty egregious errors affecting games. That's a problem. A pretty serious one, too.

Giannis is an aggressive player and that's great; however, he and others who use the tactic of size to drop a shoulder and plow through a defender should be called for what it is but isn't: An offensive foul. He SEEMS to get a lot of preferential calls and THAT is the gripe Williams has aired. He's not alone, either. And the comment of the coach not adjusting his defense accordingly is weaksauce. You'd be mad as well if it was on the other foot.

No matter though as I've said my two cents worth and I'll leave it at that. There's been an awful lot of cringe posted in here but that comes as no real surprise.

Have a good one. Best of luck come playoff time.

Sent from my [Samsung Z4 Fold] using RealGM mobile app

[skones]

Don't foul him, or get in the gym so you're built similar to him and can put up more resistance. Either way, the whining just means they have no answer for him, which is the same for the other 29 teams.

Lol, you realize that if guys could do that, they would do that right? It's not a thing you can just do. There's a reason they call him the Freak.