Whom is the best scorer of the 21st Century, Curry or Durant?

[Homer38]

If you honestly think this i dont think you have been watching the nba all that long. James isnt the best ever in playoff history in clutch buckets. Cause what? He scored a layup on Dillion Brooks? Jordan is way more clutch than James could ever be in the playoffs and its not even close my man. James would much rather pass the ball than shoot or get fouled and have to go to the free throw line in a key situation.

such a huge myth...Only MJ has a case over LBJ in clutch situation if we look at the numbers come playoffs time

Btw I was talking about this buckets last week in case you forgot...it was not an easy score

Watch on YouTube

Last time James was in the western conference finals against Denver who took and made the game winning 3 to beat Denver?

He made a layup…he doest have a reliable mid range shot. I didnt forget, just wasnt overly impressed. Make him make a 17 foot jump shot to win the game.

Kerr and Paxton make a huge shot for Jordan in 1993 and 1997...Jordan must has been bad in the clutch by your logic.Or did you miss the 5 career game winning shot in the playoffs by LBJ,a NBA record?

[Homer38]

Just more praise for your favorite player but its not the truth. If James is so great and unstoppable why did he choke agsinst my Mavs in the 2011 finals? Why didnt he “will” the Heat to a championship? I thought he was unstoppable? He scored 8 points in the close out game. What happened?

Another thinking we are still in 2011 and that nothing has happened since then ...It's as if we were still living in 2007 in the case of Dirk

Cause he failed on the biggest stage in his prime. Also Irving and Davis were monsters in 16 and the bubble.

My goat Dirk redeemed himself in 2011 when he beat James’s superteam. If i remember correctly Dirk outplayed him. Maybe you missed that finals. Not your fault.

If you think LBJ hasn't had a redemption since 2011, you're crazy!

And at least he never lost to a 42-40 in the first round like the first seed, which is way worse than losing in the finals.

[MavsDirk41]

such a huge myth...Only MJ has a case over LBJ in clutch situation if we look at the numbers come playoffs time

Btw I was talking about this buckets last week in case you forgot...it was not an easy score

Watch on YouTube

Last time James was in the western conference finals against Denver who took and made the game winning 3 to beat Denver?

He made a layup…he doest have a reliable mid range shot. I didnt forget, just wasnt overly impressed. Make him make a 17 foot jump shot to win the game.

Kerr and Paxton make a huge shot for Jordan in 1993 and 1997...Jordan must has been bad in the clutch by your logic.Or did you miss the 5 career game winning shot in the playoffs by LBJ,a NBA record?

Jordan kicked the ball out to Kerr in 97 cause he was doubled. It was a designed play. In 93 Jordan passed the ball ahead to i think Pippen who passed it to Paxton. The Lakers drew up the play for Davis to take that shot. James wasn’t involved in the play. Give me Jordan over James 7 days a week in the clutch. No team could even get him to a game 7 in the finals.

[MavsDirk41]

Another thinking we are still in 2011 and that nothing has happened since then ...It's as if we were still living in 2007 in the case of Dirk

Cause he failed on the biggest stage in his prime. Also Irving and Davis were monsters in 16 and the bubble.

My goat Dirk redeemed himself in 2011 when he beat James’s superteam. If i remember correctly Dirk outplayed him. Maybe you missed that finals. Not your fault.

If you think LBJ hasn't had a redemption since 2011, you're crazy!

And at least he never lost to a 42-40 in the first round like the first seed, which is way worse than losing in the finals.

Maybe Dirk should have teamed up with other allstars to win a ring. How many allstar teammates did Dirk have on that 2011 roster?

[Homer38]

Last time James was in the western conference finals against Denver who took and made the game winning 3 to beat Denver?

He made a layup…he doest have a reliable mid range shot. I didnt forget, just wasnt overly impressed. Make him make a 17 foot jump shot to win the game.

Kerr and Paxton make a huge shot for Jordan in 1993 and 1997...Jordan must has been bad in the clutch by your logic.Or did you miss the 5 career game winning shot in the playoffs by LBJ,a NBA record?

Jordan kicked the ball out to Kerr in 97 cause he was doubled. It was a designed play. In 93 Jordan passed the ball ahead to i think Pippen who passed it to Paxton. The Lakers drew up the play for Davis to take that shot. James wasn’t involved in the play. Give me Jordan over James 7 days a week in the clutch. No team could even get him to a game 7 in the finals.

It was Davis who took that shot, because the nuggets was expecting LBJ to have the ball in this situation...I mean, the same guy with 5 game winning buzzer beaters in the playoffs

And very funny you defend Jordan for 1993 and 1997 when LBJ is often criticized for things like that whether it is his teammates make or miss the open shot....Be consistent at least

[Homer38]

Cause he failed on the biggest stage in his prime. Also Irving and Davis were monsters in 16 and the bubble.

My goat Dirk redeemed himself in 2011 when he beat James’s superteam. If i remember correctly Dirk outplayed him. Maybe you missed that finals. Not your fault.

If you think LBJ hasn't had a redemption since 2011, you're crazy!

And at least he never lost to a 42-40 in the first round like the first seed, which is way worse than losing in the finals.

Maybe Dirk should have teamed up with other allstars to win a ring. How many allstar teammates did Dirk have on that 2011 roster?

In the 2011 season?...0,same for LBJ in 2016

[Woodsanity]

Durant might not be the best scorer on his own team atm....

[infinite11285]

Neither. It's LeBron.

Do you consider Karl Malone a better scorer than Mj?

Scorers score points, right? A 2-pointer is a 2-pointer, whether a dunk or a fadeaway J; similarly, a 3-pointer is a 3-pointer. The point is to put the ball into the bucket. Extra points aren't rewarded for style.

LeBron has scored more points than MJ on both 2P and 3P shots on higher efficiency (on both shots) and has a higher TS%. However, MJ has a huge advantage on eFT% (his only scoring advantage over James). MJ can score in a more variety of ways, but empirical data tells us he isn't the best at putting the ball into the bucket.

The 5th All-Time Leader in points scored can't also be the best scorer of points. Logically, it doesn't make sense.

[hoosierdaddy34]

Kobe

[MavsDirk41]

Kerr and Paxton make a huge shot for Jordan in 1993 and 1997...Jordan must has been bad in the clutch by your logic.Or did you miss the 5 career game winning shot in the playoffs by LBJ,a NBA record?

Jordan kicked the ball out to Kerr in 97 cause he was doubled. It was a designed play. In 93 Jordan passed the ball ahead to i think Pippen who passed it to Paxton. The Lakers drew up the play for Davis to take that shot. James wasn’t involved in the play. Give me Jordan over James 7 days a week in the clutch. No team could even get him to a game 7 in the finals.

It was Davis who took that shot, because the nuggets was expecting LBJ to have the ball in this situation...I mean, the same guy with 5 game winning buzzer beaters in the playoffs

And very funny you defend Jordan for 1993 and 1997 when LBJ is often criticized for things like that whether it is his teammates make or miss the open shot....Be consistent at least

Cause the Nuggets were expecting your guy to have the ball in that situation lol….ok man. I Dont believe that at all. Only lebron james stans like yourself believe that. Same guy who that same year took an inbound pass with about 10 seconds left in a tie game against Houston, dribbled towards the basket, had a layup, but kicked the ball out to Carmelo for a 3. That same guy?

Look man, James is great but i think guys like you embellish him too much on here

[MavsDirk41]

If you think LBJ hasn't had a redemption since 2011, you're crazy!

And at least he never lost to a 42-40 in the first round like the first seed, which is way worse than losing in the finals.

Maybe Dirk should have teamed up with other allstars to win a ring. How many allstar teammates did Dirk have on that 2011 roster?

In the 2011 season?...0,same for LBJ in 2016

Imagine if Dirk teamed up with Wade/Bosh or Irving/Love. Bet he would have 4 rings too.

[BoatsNZones]

Neither. It's LeBron.

Do you consider Karl Malone a better scorer than Mj?

Scorers score points, right? A 2-pointer is a 2-pointer, whether a dunk or a fadeaway J; similarly, a 3-pointer is a 3-pointer. The point is to put the ball into the bucket. Extra points aren't rewarded for style.

LeBron has scored more points than MJ on both 2P and 3P shots on higher efficiency (on both shots) and has a higher TS%. However, MJ has a huge advantage on eFT% (his only scoring advantage over James). MJ can score in a more variety of ways, but empirical data tells us he isn't the best at putting the ball into the bucket.

The 5th All-Time Leader in points scored can't also be the best scorer of points. Logically, it doesn't make sense.

No, playing more seasons/accruing more stats doesn't make you a better scorer. It means you played the game longer.

As far as efficiency, they're effectively equal relative to their own league through their primes. You can't compare different eras that have different rules. You compare them to their league/peers. MJ's per game volume was higher with nearly identical relative efficiency. He gets the nod.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

Who has the most 50/40/90 seasons?

This is a pretty bad question to answer this question with TBH.

[infinite11285]

Do you consider Karl Malone a better scorer than Mj?

Scorers score points, right? A 2-pointer is a 2-pointer, whether a dunk or a fadeaway J; similarly, a 3-pointer is a 3-pointer. The point is to put the ball into the bucket. Extra points aren't rewarded for style.

LeBron has scored more points than MJ on both 2P and 3P shots on higher efficiency (on both shots) and has a higher TS%. However, MJ has a huge advantage on eFT% (his only scoring advantage over James). MJ can score in a more variety of ways, but empirical data tells us he isn't the best at putting the ball into the bucket.

The 5th All-Time Leader in points scored can't also be the best scorer of points. Logically, it doesn't make sense.

No, playing more seasons/accruing more stats doesn't make you a better scorer. It means you played the game longer.

Nonsense. If you excel at a particular skill longer than someone else, you're better at that skill than your counterpart. Especially when excelling at that skill at a higher level for longer. Penalizing James for longterm consistency makes no sense.

As far as efficiency, they're effectively equal relative to their own league through their primes. You can't compare different eras that have different rules. You compare them to their league/peers. MJ's per game volume was higher with nearly identical relative efficiency. He gets the nod.

The era has nothing to do with efficiency; either you make the shot, or you miss the shot. MJ's higher shooting volume means he had to take more shots to score similar points despite missing more shots (that's how efficiency works). LeBron is also more efficient than most of his peers, so that doesn't help MJ's case either. Finally, when LBJ passed MJ on the all-time scoring list, he did so more efficiently on 2Ps, 3Ps, and on fewer shots. LBJ's larger sampling pool provides a better representation of the population resulting in a more accurate result. The empirical data simply proves that LBJ is a more efficient and better scorer than MJ.

[BoatsNZones]

Scorers score points, right? A 2-pointer is a 2-pointer, whether a dunk or a fadeaway J; similarly, a 3-pointer is a 3-pointer. The point is to put the ball into the bucket. Extra points aren't rewarded for style.

LeBron has scored more points than MJ on both 2P and 3P shots on higher efficiency (on both shots) and has a higher TS%. However, MJ has a huge advantage on eFT% (his only scoring advantage over James). MJ can score in a more variety of ways, but empirical data tells us he isn't the best at putting the ball into the bucket.

The 5th All-Time Leader in points scored can't also be the best scorer of points. Logically, it doesn't make sense.

No, playing more seasons/accruing more stats doesn't make you a better scorer. It means you played the game longer.

Nonsense. If you excel at a particular skill longer than someone else, you're better at that skill than your counterpart. Especially when excelling at that skill at a higher level for longer.

As far as efficiency, they're effectively equal relative to their own league through their primes. You can't compare different eras that have different rules. You compare them to their league/peers. MJ's per game volume was higher with nearly identical relative efficiency. He gets the nod.

The era has nothing to do with efficiency; either you make the shot, or you miss the shot. MJ's higher shooting volume means he missed took more shots to score a similar amount of points and missed more shots (that's how efficiency works). LeBron is more efficient than his peers too, so that doesn't help MJ's case. Finally, when LBJ passed MJ on the all-time scoring list, he did so at a higher efficiency on 2Ps and 3Ps on fewer shots. He's simply a more efficient scorer than MJ, and the empirical data proves that.

OK, well I couldn't disagree more, and think it's a pretty absurd take. If you're not adjusting stats to their own era, you are doing yourself a huge disservice in trying to compare players. The league fundamentally changes in rules, strategies, pace, etc etc over different eras, and it makes no sense to make it an A:A comparison. That's why you have stats like TS+, as it regulates these variables to make it a much more realistic comparison.

As far as you simply counting career volume as meaning that player was "better" at a particular skill versus another, it's obviously a beyond ridiculous take that I'm sure less than 10% would agree with you on. It means you believe Robert Parish was a better scorer than Larry Bird, is that correct? Gary Payton is a better scorer than Steph Curry right now I suppose, but not if Curry averages 5 PPG next season.

[infinite11285]

No, playing more seasons/accruing more stats doesn't make you a better scorer. It means you played the game longer.

Nonsense. If you excel at a particular skill longer than someone else, you're better at that skill than your counterpart. Especially when excelling at that skill at a higher level for longer.

As far as efficiency, they're effectively equal relative to their own league through their primes. You can't compare different eras that have different rules. You compare them to their league/peers. MJ's per game volume was higher with nearly identical relative efficiency. He gets the nod.

The era has nothing to do with efficiency; either you make the shot, or you miss the shot. MJ's higher shooting volume means he missed took more shots to score a similar amount of points and missed more shots (that's how efficiency works). LeBron is more efficient than his peers too, so that doesn't help MJ's case. Finally, when LBJ passed MJ on the all-time scoring list, he did so at a higher efficiency on 2Ps and 3Ps on fewer shots. He's simply a more efficient scorer than MJ, and the empirical data proves that.

OK, well I couldn't disagree more, and think it's a pretty absurd take. If you're not adjusting stats to their own era, you are doing yourself a huge disservice in trying to compare players. The league fundamentally changes in rules, strategies, pace, etc etc over different eras, and it makes no sense to make it an A:A comparison. That's why you have stats like TS+, as it regulates these variables to make it a much more realistic comparison.

As far as you simply counting career volume as meaning that player was "better" at a particular skill versus another, it's obviously a beyond ridiculous take that I'm sure less than 10% would agree with you on. It means you believe Robert Parish was a better scorer than Larry Bird, is that correct? Gary Payton is a better scorer than Steph Curry right now I suppose, but not if Curry averages 5 PPG next season.

LeBron has a higher TS% than Jordan, so I don't understand your perspective in that regard. Do you have an adjusted breakout for efficiency while taking eras into account?

I believe our disagreement lies in how the term "scorer" is being used. Most fans use the term scorer as a noun that refers to the various ways a player can score. In that sense, Larry and MJ are better scorers than Parish and LBJ. Conversely, I'm using the term "scorer" as a verb with the subsequent action in mind--to score points. In that sense, Parish and LBJ are better scorers of the ball because they scored more points at a higher clip than Bird and MJ. Even though Bird does have the 3-point shot over Parish, Parish still scored more points than Bird.

(Hypothetical) What do you value more? 40k points in dunks only or 38k points in dunks, layups, fadeaways, 3-pointers, et al?

[Taj FTW]

Jordan kicked the ball out to Kerr in 97 cause he was doubled. It was a designed play. In 93 Jordan passed the ball ahead to i think Pippen who passed it to Paxton. The Lakers drew up the play for Davis to take that shot. James wasn’t involved in the play. Give me Jordan over James 7 days a week in the clutch. No team could even get him to a game 7 in the finals.

It was Davis who took that shot, because the nuggets was expecting LBJ to have the ball in this situation...I mean, the same guy with 5 game winning buzzer beaters in the playoffs

And very funny you defend Jordan for 1993 and 1997 when LBJ is often criticized for things like that whether it is his teammates make or miss the open shot....Be consistent at least

Cause the Nuggets were expecting your guy to have the ball in that situation lol….ok man. I Dont believe that at all. Only lebron james stans like yourself believe that. Same guy who that same year took an inbound pass with about 10 seconds left in a tie game against Houston, dribbled towards the basket, had a layup, but kicked the ball out to Carmelo for a 3. That same guy?

Look man, James is great but i think guys like you embellish him too much on here

MavsDirk after getting destroyed in a debate, again:

[BoatsNZones]

Nonsense. If you excel at a particular skill longer than someone else, you're better at that skill than your counterpart. Especially when excelling at that skill at a higher level for longer.



The era has nothing to do with efficiency; either you make the shot, or you miss the shot. MJ's higher shooting volume means he missed took more shots to score a similar amount of points and missed more shots (that's how efficiency works). LeBron is more efficient than his peers too, so that doesn't help MJ's case. Finally, when LBJ passed MJ on the all-time scoring list, he did so at a higher efficiency on 2Ps and 3Ps on fewer shots. He's simply a more efficient scorer than MJ, and the empirical data proves that.

OK, well I couldn't disagree more, and think it's a pretty absurd take. If you're not adjusting stats to their own era, you are doing yourself a huge disservice in trying to compare players. The league fundamentally changes in rules, strategies, pace, etc etc over different eras, and it makes no sense to make it an A:A comparison. That's why you have stats like TS+, as it regulates these variables to make it a much more realistic comparison.

As far as you simply counting career volume as meaning that player was "better" at a particular skill versus another, it's obviously a beyond ridiculous take that I'm sure less than 10% would agree with you on. It means you believe Robert Parish was a better scorer than Larry Bird, is that correct? Gary Payton is a better scorer than Steph Curry right now I suppose, but not if Curry averages 5 PPG next season.

LeBron has a higher TS% than Jordan, so I don't understand your perspective in that regard. Do you have an adjusted breakout for efficiency while taking eras into account?

I believe our disagreement lies in how the term "scorer" is being used. Most fans use the term scorer as a noun that refers to the various ways a player can score. In that sense, Larry and MJ are better scorers than Parish and LBJ. Conversely, I'm using the term "scorer" as a verb with the subsequent action in mind--to score points. In that sense, Parish and LBJ are better scorers of the ball because they scored more points at a higher clip than Bird and MJ. Even though Bird does have the 3-point shot over Parish, Parish still scored more points than Bird.

(Hypothetical) What do you value more? 40k points in dunks only or 38k points in dunks, layups, fadeaways, 3-pointers, et al?

Game's on so I'll just say quickly that TS% does not regulate to the current era, TS+ does. In 1993 the league average TS was 51.6. It's 57.0 now. Rule changes/how the game is officiated alone dictate that you have to be regulating to how a player fares versus their own league. We can be pretty damn sure that MJ in this era (zero time to adjust) would have been significantly more efficient, but TS+ just makes it a simpler comparison.

To your 2nd point I care about how good of a scorer the player was through their prime when discussing who a better scorer was. Once you reach a sufficient volume (let's call it 10 seasons for arguments sake), there's nothing else that you're going to show us. Nobody in their right mind thinks Robert Parish was a better scorer than Bird because he happened to play 22 seasons and accrued a ton of counting stats over the years.

[Hobo4President]

Out of those two it's Curry. Durant has a more all-round scoring game but Curry is the better scorer overall. The entire reason Curry has so much offensive output is because the threat of his scoring.

[Upperclass]

Durant has never been better as a player or scorer than Curry. People see his size and default to that without understanding what they are actually seeing in games.