Cade Cunningham - Any Concerns?

[Time for Change]

The GB never fails to amaze me with the dismissive nature of young players' careers. Cade has played just over a full season of games (84 in total). Guess we're living in the instant gratification era.

There’s also such a thing as too much patience. Do you still think James Wiseman is going to be good? He’s a #2 pick, played just over a full season of games, same age as Cade. Now obviously Cade is way better than Wiseman, but usually by the third season you know what a player is.

[Roger Murdock]

The GB never fails to amaze me with the dismissive nature of young players' careers. Cade has played just over a full season of games (84 in total). Guess we're living in the instant gratification era.

I hear you, but almost all of the negatives regarding his scouting report are panning out to be spot on, and the positives don’t seem to be living up to the hype.

Like imagine Cades scouting report was just less optimistic on his upside and he was drafted 8 instead of 1. All of a sudden he’s panning out exactly like he was supposed to.

[NYPiston]

He reminds me a lot of Evan Turner but with a higher usage.

Talented, but he plays too slow and scores too inefficiently for the NBA.

His best role on a winning team will likely be as a bench player or a jack-of-all-trades 4th or 5th option.

If Detroit can get a top 10 pick for him, they have to trade him.

One thing for sure, you don't worry about who can fit with him or not. He should be irrelevant in the team building process. If anything, he should be expected to be able to fit around other players because that's what will be expected of him in a not-so-distant future.

Absurd take and the even worse posts down the page after yours. My god, some of you people...

[NYPiston]

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This is just a bait thread. This is the full play: https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2023/11/06/0022300145/31/155679aa-6785-0f5e-4c3a-571bdfacf502_1280x720.mp4

Cade decided to dribble into 3/4 players instead of passing the ball out to 3 open shooters.

Yeah and who can hit a shot on that team? Therein lies the problem. You have Killian Hayes, Ausar Thompson, Marvin Bagley and Isiah Stewart in that clip, just put two and two together.
When he has trust that his teammates can hit shots, that's should change.

[Clemenza]

"Tank Commander?" For who though? Teams like the Pistons have every type of player that's in the draft already on their team now. Wemby came and went so they'll end up getting another Cade, Ivey, Ausar, Hayes, or Duran in the draft and then what? Some of theses kids have to pan out sooner or later

[Godymas]

The GB never fails to amaze me with the dismissive nature of young players' careers. Cade has played just over a full season of games (84 in total). Guess we're living in the instant gratification era.

historically you usually know really quickly if a lottery pick is a stud or not

just look at the recent break-out young stars

Anthony Edwards - star potential showed in the 2nd half of his rookie season
LaMelo Ball - entire rookie season
Franz Wagner - entire rookie season
Paolo - instant star potential
Ja Morant - instant star potential
Zion - instant star potential
Trae Young - 2nd half of rookie season
Tyler Herro - rookie season
Donovan Mitchell - rookie season

even guys that got lower usage early on, you knew pretty quickly they were studs

Tyrese Haliburton
SGA
Tyrese Maxey

expect Trey Murphy III to join the above group

it's much more rare for a guy to take that leap after being horribly inefficient early

[Statlanta]

I'd give up on him. He's lost too many games to injury and his progression is not good enough to make up for potential.

These East teams need to sell high on their lack of progression draft picks like Ben Simmons

[Godymas]

"Tank Commander?" For who though? Teams like the Pistons have every type of player that's in the draft already on their team now. Wemby came and went so they'll end up getting another Cade, Ivey, Ausar, Hayes, or Duran in the draft and then what? Some of theses kids have to pan out sooner or later

Cade could be their superstar, Ivey could be their superstar, or they could draft a superstar in 2024. Regardless, they were projected to win 27.5 games this year and Cade is taking all their shots and running the offense so he is by all definitions of the term, "tank commander"

[NYPiston]

The GB never fails to amaze me with the dismissive nature of young players' careers. Cade has played just over a full season of games (84 in total). Guess we're living in the instant gratification era.

historically you usually know really quickly if a lottery pick is a stud or not

just look at the recent break-out young stars

Anthony Edwards - star potential showed in the 2nd half of his rookie season
LaMelo Ball - entire rookie season
Franz Wagner - entire rookie season
Paolo - instant star potential
Ja Morant - instant star potential
Zion - instant star potential
Trae Young - 2nd half of rookie season
Tyler Herro - rookie season
Donovan Mitchell - rookie season

even guys that got lower usage early on, you knew pretty quickly they were studs

Tyrese Haliburton
SGA
Tyrese Maxey

expect Trey Murphy III to join the above group

it's much more rare for a guy to take that leap after being horribly inefficient early

A lot of those guys were just as inefficient as Cade in their rookie season and, I have to repeat this, most of those guys were in better situations to maximize their potential.

Cade missed most of last season so this is essentially his 2nd season. It's 8 games in and nobody around him can shoot, it's too early to properly judge him. If he doesn't improve his efficiency and cut down on the turnovers at least some by the end of this season then it could be fair to say that he might never be a star player but it's too early right now. It'll also help if even one quality vet is healthy enough to play to give this guy some support.

[Roger Murdock]

The GB never fails to amaze me with the dismissive nature of young players' careers. Cade has played just over a full season of games (84 in total). Guess we're living in the instant gratification era.

historically you usually know really quickly if a lottery pick is a stud or not

just look at the recent break-out young stars

Anthony Edwards - star potential showed in the 2nd half of his rookie season
LaMelo Ball - entire rookie season
Franz Wagner - entire rookie season
Paolo - instant star potential
Ja Morant - instant star potential
Zion - instant star potential
Trae Young - 2nd half of rookie season
Tyler Herro - rookie season
Donovan Mitchell - rookie season

even guys that got lower usage early on, you knew pretty quickly they were studs

Tyrese Haliburton
SGA
Tyrese Maxey

expect Trey Murphy III to join the above group

it's much more rare for a guy to take that leap after being horribly inefficient early

A lot of those guys were just as inefficient as Cade in their rookie season and, I have to repeat this, most of those guys were in better situations to maximize their potential.

Cade missed most of last season so this is essentially his 2nd season. It's 8 games in and nobody around him can shoot, it's too early to properly judge him. If he doesn't improve his efficiency and cut down on the turnovers at least some by the end of this season then it could be fair to say that he might never be a star player but it's too early right now. It'll also help if even one quality vet is healthy enough to play to give this guy some support.

Agree but Cade has the worst athletic profile out of all 25ish players listed here so I think theres legit reason for concern

[NatiboyB]

It’s something about Cades game that doesn’t really concern me especially at this point in time. I’d like to see how he plays once Morris, Burka, Bojan return and hopefully what ever is going on with Ivey works its way out.

I don’t believe that Cade was some all world generational number 1 overall pick. But I do believe he should have been the first pick in his draft and so far i haven’t changed from that stance.

Cade looks to be an outstanding 2nd option type. Which means the Pistons are still in the market for their 1st option. But until then it will be Cade. Some teams never find that superstar first option.

Cade is a 21/6/6 type guy. And he’s improved his shooting. I do get the concerns from others however I won’t sit here and act like he’s a disappointment also I won’t act like I had high expectations for the Pistons.

I also think that the Pistons are trending in the correct direction and wouldn’t be surprised if they were a team that made one of those trades for a key player in order to improve their on floor product and get rid of some of their young players for a proven commodity.

[cgf]

He reminds me a lot of Evan Turner but with a higher usage.

Talented, but he plays too slow and scores too inefficiently for the NBA.

His best role on a winning team will likely be as a bench player or a jack-of-all-trades 4th or 5th option.

If Detroit can get a top 10 pick for him, they have to trade him.

One thing for sure, you don't worry about who can fit with him or not. He should be irrelevant in the team building process. If anything, he should be expected to be able to fit around other players because that's what will be expected of him in a not-so-distant future.

He might not pan out but Cade is much, much more talented than Evan turner. You are vastly under selling him penciling him as a 4th or 5th option. When Cade is at his best he looks like a legitimate superstar, when Turner was at his best he looked like a fringe all star maybe.

Turner was really talented as well.

Cade has a stronger ability to shot create and their profiles are slightly different but the main difference is opportunity.

The Sixers were trying to compete and win games during Turner's rookie season (they won 41 games and made the playoffs). They simply didn't give Turner the usage that Cade has been given. Detroit made Cade the focal point, which has enabled him to have these odd performances where everything clicks and he looks like a rising star on a night. But most NBA players can do that if given the green light for an extended period. What separates them is consistency.

I guess we will see. I just hope Detroit aren't wasting their time here. My suspicion is that Detroit won't win much with him as a featured guy, and then getting him to accept a lesser role will prove difficult (after putting him on a franchise pedestal), so he will eventually get traded and find his niche in a lesser role for a different team. Could be completely wrong though, but it has happened with a lot of guys.

I have a lot of respect for you CB even when we disagree, but I think you use early-career efficiency too much to define kids' potential. I'm not saying that we should just ignore efficiency until players reach a certain age or games-played threshold, just that young players can be inefficient for a whole host of reasons and not all of them suggest limited futures.

Sometimes inefficiency can reveal limitations in skill, athleticism, BBIQ, but some times they tell us more about the situation a player is put into and how much polish they need...especially with guys whose tools aren't insane, so they need to learn what they can and can't pull off at this level, as well as polishing their skills to expand their bag.

And with Cade we're looking at both potential redflags about his athleticism / foul-baiting that could suggest limitations as a primary creative force, and the understandable explanations like being asked to do too much with too little help, while he still needs to fill out and figure out what his spots are at this level / how to best leverage them against NBA defenses.

So he could well end up a disappointing volume scorer with good playmaking instincts that he lacks the gravity to do enough with, but he could just as easily fill out, expand his bag, and see his efficiency take off as Detroit gives him more team-mates that can create & shoot so teams can't sell out against Cade as hard as they do currently.

The pistons scare me as a team that could push hard for IQ this summer...especially with this defense + rebounding identity that is starting to take shape up in Detroit...and one of the main reasons I think IQ would be godsend for them would be how well he could help take creative pressure off of Cade while also boosting their spacing when he's off-ball. Cause Hayes and Ivey just aren't taking any defensive attention away from Cunningham.

[JonFromVA]

The GB never fails to amaze me with the dismissive nature of young players' careers. Cade has played just over a full season of games (84 in total). Guess we're living in the instant gratification era.

historically you usually know really quickly if a lottery pick is a stud or not

just look at the recent break-out young stars

Anthony Edwards - star potential showed in the 2nd half of his rookie season
LaMelo Ball - entire rookie season
Franz Wagner - entire rookie season
Paolo - instant star potential
Ja Morant - instant star potential
Zion - instant star potential
Trae Young - 2nd half of rookie season
Tyler Herro - rookie season
Donovan Mitchell - rookie season

even guys that got lower usage early on, you knew pretty quickly they were studs

Tyrese Haliburton
SGA
Tyrese Maxey

expect Trey Murphy III to join the above group

it's much more rare for a guy to take that leap after being horribly inefficient early

Obviously the best predictor for success is success, but one player's success has nothing to do with another's. A more reliable method would be to look for a player to flash his potential and then analyze what is holding him back and whether those things are correctable.

On one hand, we expect the Pistons to push Cade hard - they can afford the losses; but at some point they can choose to dial him back and see how he looks as more of a complimentary player.

We literally waited 26 years for the next Larry Bird until Luka came around, if we understood better why it took so long, we might have a better clue whether Cade actually has a chance of approaching that level.

[playoffs]

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This is just a bait thread. This is the full play: https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2023/11/06/0022300145/31/155679aa-6785-0f5e-4c3a-571bdfacf502_1280x720.mp4

Cade decided to dribble into 3/4 players instead of passing the ball out to 3 open shooters.

Yeah and who can hit a shot on that team? Therein lies the problem. You have Killian Hayes, Ausar Thompson, Marvin Bagley and Isiah Stewart in that clip, just put two and two together.
When he has trust that his teammates can hit shots, that's should change.

I haven't watched Cade enough to have an opinion on him in this thread, but I hate this logic of "his teammates can't hit shots so it's okay for him to drive into 4 players and get stripped". Detroit is not winning a championship any time soon. This is the time to build a culture of playing the right way and trusting your teammates and helping them grow. Even if Shaq were wide open on the 3 pt line it would've been a better shot than what Cade did. He turned the ball over while frustrating his teammates, hurting their confidence, and hurting his own credibility as the leader of the team. Just one play, and like I said I don't watch them enough to have a strong opinion, but if he does this on a regular basis, that's bad no matter how you frame it.

[God Squad]

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Read on Twitter

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This is just a bait thread. This is the full play: https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2023/11/06/0022300145/31/155679aa-6785-0f5e-4c3a-571bdfacf502_1280x720.mp4

Cade decided to dribble into 3/4 players instead of passing the ball out to 3 open shooters.

Thank you for not letting them deflect with pictures. That chit was awful, and the turnover was Cades fault. I think too many people are writing him off with the Evan Turner comps. But I think he's in a role he's not suitable for at all. (offensive hub).

[CptCrunch]

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Read on Twitter

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This is just a bait thread. This is the full play: https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2023/11/06/0022300145/31/155679aa-6785-0f5e-4c3a-571bdfacf502_1280x720.mp4

Cade decided to dribble into 3/4 players instead of passing the ball out to 3 open shooters.

Yeah and who can hit a shot on that team? Therein lies the problem. You have Killian Hayes, Ausar Thompson, Marvin Bagley and Isiah Stewart in that clip, just put two and two together.
When he has trust that his teammates can hit shots, that's should change.

Got it. Better to dribble into 3 players than pass to an open shooter.

Btw Stew is shooting 46% from 3 this season and he is wide open.

I guess Cade's IQ is so high that he is looking out for his teammates in not passing them the ball. He is simply trying to pull an Kyrie Irving driving into 3 players. I do think Irving is the only player in the league who is legally allowed to dribble into a triple team.

[Chanel Bomber]

He might not pan out but Cade is much, much more talented than Evan turner. You are vastly under selling him penciling him as a 4th or 5th option. When Cade is at his best he looks like a legitimate superstar, when Turner was at his best he looked like a fringe all star maybe.

Turner was really talented as well.

Cade has a stronger ability to shot create and their profiles are slightly different but the main difference is opportunity.

The Sixers were trying to compete and win games during Turner's rookie season (they won 41 games and made the playoffs). They simply didn't give Turner the usage that Cade has been given. Detroit made Cade the focal point, which has enabled him to have these odd performances where everything clicks and he looks like a rising star on a night. But most NBA players can do that if given the green light for an extended period. What separates them is consistency.

I guess we will see. I just hope Detroit aren't wasting their time here. My suspicion is that Detroit won't win much with him as a featured guy, and then getting him to accept a lesser role will prove difficult (after putting him on a franchise pedestal), so he will eventually get traded and find his niche in a lesser role for a different team. Could be completely wrong though, but it has happened with a lot of guys.

I have a lot of respect for you CB even when we disagree, but I think you use early-career efficiency too much to define kids' potential. I'm not saying that we should just ignore efficiency until players reach a certain age or games-played threshold, just that young players can be inefficient for a whole host of reasons and not all of them suggest limited futures.

Sometimes inefficiency can reveal limitations in skill, athleticism, BBIQ, but some times they tell us more about the situation a player is put into and how much polish they need...especially with guys whose tools aren't insane, so they need to learn what they can and can't pull off at this level, as well as polishing their skills to expand their bag.

And with Cade we're looking at both potential redflags about his athleticism / foul-baiting that could suggest limitations as a primary creative force, and the understandable explanations like being asked to do too much with too little help, while he still needs to fill out and figure out what his spots are at this level / how to best leverage them against NBA defenses.

So he could well end up a disappointing volume scorer with good playmaking instincts that he lacks the gravity to do enough with, but he could just as easily fill out, expand his bag, and see his efficiency take off as Detroit gives him more team-mates that can create & shoot so teams can't sell out against Cade as hard as they do currently.

The pistons scare me as a team that could push hard for IQ this summer...especially with this defense + rebounding identity that is starting to take shape up in Detroit...and one of the main reasons I think IQ would be godsend for them would be how well he could help take creative pressure off of Cade while also boosting their spacing when he's off-ball. Cause Hayes and Ivey just aren't taking any defensive attention away from Cunningham.

Thanks, always respect you too.

I think we can generally rule out rookie seasons in terms of efficiency (to your point). Second and third seasons are much more meaningful to me, and I understand that Cade missed most of last year and that his third season just got underway.

But we're starting to see some patterns persist. The numbers are extreme (on the negative end) - that's my concern. And when it comes to the eye test, I just don't see a player who's dynamic. He plays slow and I don't know if he has another gear in him. I think the combination of all these factors make it likely that he'd be better suited playing off the ball more.

I didn't mean any of this as a slight against Cade. Some players drafted high fail to meet pre-draft expectations but can still carve out a role where they contribute to winning (e.g., Aaron Gordon, Andrew Wiggins, Tyson Chandler, though they all had better tools to become elite defenders than Cade), even if it can be viewed as a demotion compared to initial expectations. I think Cade has enough tools to contribute to a team's success one day. But I don't think it'll happen in his current role, or as a high-usage star. I think it'll come in a much lesser role or from the bench.

Perhaps the raw talent will prevail in the end, but I think the concerns are legit.

[Kalamazoo317]

Haters gonna hate. Cade's going to be really good and he, Duren, and Ausar are a good foundation for something special. But I don't expect the general pop to agree. Detroit vs. everyone is a thing for a reason.

[Dmcg88]

A bunch of boxscore analysis. This board is so bad at times. Comparing Cade to Evan Turner and saying he’s a 4th 5th option is absurd. He gets guarded like a superstar every night. Look at his first 3 quarters efficiency. His endurance isn’t there yet so his efficiency has been terrible to finish games. As a Pistons fans that has seen near every game he’s played in NBA. I am not worried at all.

[niQ]

Cade is fine. He just needs to cut down on the turnovers and improve on his FG%.

Spoiler:

-Says random person who has Cade on his fantasy team.