How does Atlanta Hawks get over mediocrity?

The-Power · Post #101 » by **The-Power** » Fri Dec 15, 2023 9:46 am

Fadeaway_Jumper wrote:But I don’t like how people will say not picking Luka over Trae was massive blunder. Both of them have the same playoff success, and Jalen Brunson & Kyrie is better than anyone Trae has played with.

And Robert Horry had more playoff success than Michael Jordan. That doesn't mean they are equals as players. There's no denying that Trae has not played up to his regular season standards while Luka has raised his game overall. That matters until it changes. It's also a pretty reductive argument to only look at second best players (including pre- and post-prime versions) without looking at the entire team (I'd take Atlanta's supporting cast overall) and other important contextual factors such as playoff opponents and conference strength.

greekman · Post #102 » by **greekman** » Fri Dec 15, 2023 10:28 am

they had a chance in the summer to get siakam but didn't even make murray available. if siakam starts producing again his value skyrockets.

brutalitops · Post #103 » by **brutalitops** » Fri Dec 15, 2023 10:53 am

Because Trae Young is a bottom 5 defender in the NBA and if he's on the court for 30MPG you would want him to be dropping 35 and 12 assists per game or y'all not winning

Ballerhogger · Post #104 » by **Ballerhogger** » Fri Dec 15, 2023 12:04 pm

By trading young and hoping for a star draft pick?

Post #105 » by **Jamaaliver** » Fri Dec 15, 2023 12:51 pm

greekman wrote:...if siakam starts producing again his value skyrockets.

Skyrockets?

With a whopping 3 and a half months left under contract?

Post #106 » by **dms269** » Fri Dec 15, 2023 12:53 pm

Fadeaway_Jumper wrote:
It’s a problem uptop in the office in ATL. Clean house

They have a "newish" regime already, however it is hard to clean house when the owner's son (Nick Ressler) has a high level position with the organization and Landry Fields is likely a puppet GM for Ressler.

Post #107 » by **Jamaaliver** » Sat Dec 23, 2023 8:31 pm

Sounds like it might be more than a simple roster issue...

If accurate, the numbers on this go back to the 2010 season:

Read on Twitter

ChuckChilly · Post #108 » by **ChuckChilly** » Sat Dec 23, 2023 9:05 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:Sounds like it might be more than a simple roster issue...

If accurate, the numbers on this go back to the 2010 season:

Read on Twitter

I would confidently say Atlanta was cursed if it wasn't for the Braves.

BigDan245 · Post #109 » by **BigDan245** » Sat Dec 23, 2023 9:17 pm

Why do people keep saying Trae Young is one of the worst defensive players in the league?

He's unequivocally one of the worst defenders in NBA history. It's going to be almost impossible to build any team around that.

Lalouie · Post #110 » by **Lalouie** » Sat Dec 23, 2023 9:59 pm

since this spans decades,,,moving is the best solution. it has to be the water

Post #111 » by **Jamaaliver** » Wed Jan 3, 2024 8:41 pm

Get this kid a real co-star.

Read on Twitter

Post #112 » by **cupcakesnake** » Wed Jan 3, 2024 9:14 pm

It's crazy because this team runs 8 deep with starter-quality players, and they feel well built without holes. This is how I would have designed the team around Trae:
- Get him a screen & roll specialist who can also protect the rim. They got Capela.
- Get him a secondary ball handler who can guard at the point of attack. Enter Dejounte.
- Surround the core with an armada of versatile 2-way forwards. How about De'Andre, Saddiq, Jalen Johnson, maybe AJ Griffin if he ever learns defense.
- Get a defensive and offensive booster pack off the bench to back up key positions. Okongwu and Bogbog sounds pretty good!

But the result is just mid. Almost everyone is slightly underwhelming in these roles.

BelgradeNugget · Post #113 » by **BelgradeNugget** » Wed Jan 3, 2024 9:58 pm

Some team numbers

team
7th OFFRTG, 27th DEFRTG, 18th NETRTG (-0.6)

starters
7th OFFRTG, 27th DEFRTG, 20th NETRTG (-1)

bench
13th OFFRTG, 19th DEFRTG, 12th NETRTG (0.4)
(NBA.com)

standings
13-19, 23rd in the NBA

By this they have above average bench. Starters play very good offense and terrible defense. It looks like problem is on defense somewhere in the starting lineup

Charlesareed · Post #114 » by **Charlesareed** » Wed Jan 3, 2024 10:44 pm

BigDan245 wrote:Why do people keep saying Trae Young is one of the worst defensive players in the league?

He's unequivocally one of the worst defenders in NBA history. It's going to be almost impossible to build any team around that.

Unless he goes to bklyn for a package of picks dinwiddie cam thomas sharpe

TravisScott55 · Post #115 » by **TravisScott55** » Wed Jan 3, 2024 10:45 pm

Trade Trae and build around Jalen Johnson, AJ Griffin and Kobe Bufkin.

Charlesareed · Post #116 » by **Charlesareed** » Wed Jan 3, 2024 10:48 pm

cupcakesnake wrote:It's crazy because this team runs 8 deep with starter-quality players, and they feel well built without holes. This is how I would have designed the team around Trae:
- Get him a screen & roll specialist who can also protect the rim. They got Capela.
- Get him a secondary ball handler who can guard at the point of attack. Enter Dejounte.
- Surround the core with an armada of versatile 2-way forwards. How about De'Andre, Saddiq, Jalen Johnson, maybe AJ Griffin if he ever learns defense.
- Get a defensive and offensive booster pack off the bench to back up key positions. Okongwu and Bogbog sounds pretty good!

But the result is just mid. Almost everyone is slightly underwhelming in these roles.

I guess they need coach spo or maybe mark Jackson, frank vogel coach bud

Drakeem · Post #117 » by **Drakeem** » Wed Jan 3, 2024 10:57 pm

cupcakesnake wrote:It's crazy because this team runs 8 deep with starter-quality players, and they feel well built without holes. This is how I would have designed the team around Trae:
- Get him a screen & roll specialist who can also protect the rim. They got Capela.
- Get him a secondary ball handler who can guard at the point of attack. Enter Dejounte.
- Surround the core with an armada of versatile 2-way forwards. How about De'Andre, Saddiq, Jalen Johnson, maybe AJ Griffin if he ever learns defense.
- Get a defensive and offensive booster pack off the bench to back up key positions. Okongwu and Bogbog sounds pretty good!

But the result is just mid. Almost everyone is slightly underwhelming in these roles.

That's the weird part about it all. Hell, Dejounte has even become a better shooter this year, which means he should be able to play off-ball even better now than before. On paper, this team should work.

Ball4life32 · Post #118 » by **Ball4life32** » Wed Jan 3, 2024 11:07 pm

Charlesareed wrote:
BigDan245 wrote:Why do people keep saying Trae Young is one of the worst defensive players in the league?

He's unequivocally one of the worst defenders in NBA history. It's going to be almost impossible to build any team around that.

Unless he goes to bklyn for a package of picks dinwiddie cam thomas sharpe

Trae has been around the 50% range in defensive on/off last couple years and in the 47% in DEPM this year. Last year DRaptor had him in the same range. He’s still a negative of course but hes nowhere near worse defensive player of all time right now. Such a lazy narrative.

Vampirate · Post #119 » by **Vampirate** » Wed Jan 3, 2024 11:11 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
greekman wrote:...if siakam starts producing again his value skyrockets.

Skyrockets?

With a whopping 3 and a half months left under contract?

You guys are in an equally tough situation as us.

Atm we have very similar records (a bad thing) and you are pretty much locked into Trae for good and bad for a while.

As for Siakam, I don't get how you'd get him or another star in FA without doing a trade that you'd give serious value from.

So you guys are pretty much caught between a rock and a hard place atm.

NDaATL · Post #120 » by **NDaATL** » Thu Jan 4, 2024 2:06 am

When Jalen Johnson (our 2nd best player) went down the team completely fell apart b/c we had no depth behind him. We were playing Wes FKN Mathews at the 4 at one point. All of our depth is gone since we traded Kevin Heurter and John Collins for nothing to avoid the tax.

We aren't great defensively and are one of the worst rebounding teams to boot. So when we actually get a stop, we give up an OREB and they score anyway.

DeAndre Hunter is 6'8" 220 and maybe the worst rebounder for his size in the NBA. He's pretty good at on-ball man defense, but he sucks at help D, doesn't get steals/deflections/active hands/hustle type plays at all. Just has a lazy game. He has no impact and is a major reason we suck at rebounding.

Saddiq Bey is a stretch 3/4 offensively, but he's probably the worst defender on the team. He's just always out of place. He is bottom 10% of defenders in the league. He hustles and can hit the 3 though.

Bogi is great offensively, but he's also terrible on D. And when he plays the 3 with Murray/Trae we are way undersized.

AJ Griffin is terrible on D and forgot how to shoot this year.

Trae has improved a lot defensively and isn't terrible anymore, but he still isn't a great defender. He doesn't deserve the "worst in the NBA' type criticism anymore. He's probably a below average to average defender, which is adequate given how great he is offensively.

Murray isn't really a good defender at the 2. He's undersized. He really needs to be a PG, or play beside a big PG. Him and Trae are a bad fit.

Capela has lost a step and doesn't stretch the floor at all, so we can't play him and OO together. It's like we can play Capela/OO together and get rebounds and stops, but we can't space the floor. Or we play Bey/Hunter at the 4 but can't rebound or get stops. Thank GOD Jalen Johnson is back. If he gets hurt again we are screwed.

Okongwu has really struggled this year, his PER is the worst of his career. He was better as a rookie.