Have we been underrating Luka?

[NBA4Lyfe]

Luka is great but unfortunately James harden did it 1st and better with worse… and still lost the mvp to giannas, you gotta win

He will have the best season from a offensive production point in NBA history. Do not belittle this achievement by trying to put him on the same lvl as prime Harden. This season tops Hardens best.

thats a lie, prove your argument with advanced stats

[JustBuzzin]

Luka is a Finals appearance away from being the best player in the league.


I had him #6 before the season. He's clearly proven he's at worst the 3rd best player in the league.


My top 3 in order Jokic/Embiid/Luka

So you put Embiid above Luka and at the same time, you're saying he is a Finals appearance away from being the best player in the league? Despite the fact Luka has already performed FAR better than Embiid coming POs time?

That's some really strange logic to say the least.

Embiid is a MVP and was the best player in the league before he got injured and the frontrunner for MVP again.

I dropped Embiid down to #2 because Jokic is going to win his 3rd MVP.

Whatever happens in the playoffs will change my order. So if Luka proves he can beat the Nuggets and Jokic I have no choice but to put him as my best player.

My list is fluid and subject to change.

[Archx]

Dante exum???
The top draft pick that was plagued by injuries?
And pretty much given up like the other Australian
That’s what you chose to nitpick out my last post?

Again where is the proof he deserves mvp over jokic or sga

Mavs are still a 5th seed team, would be 6th if Ingram didn’t get injured

You argued that he doesn't make his teammates better, i never even mentioned MVP race.

Then what was your point of Exum, why did you bring him up? Exum is having his best NBA year so far.

Mavs are "only" 5th seed because they got plagued by injuries in the 1st half ot he season. Half of the rotational guys missed a lot of games. So, the fact that they're now 5th seed when finally somehow healthy, is quite an accomplishment. They also have 2nd best record since the trade deadline after the Celtics.

But i don't know what even is your argument anymore at this point, MVP race or how Luka doesn't make his team better? I'm actually confused.

It correlates, kyrie is kyrie
Gafford n pj are playing the same as the was on the other teams
I don’t see a luka effect on those 3 guys

U also brought up his old teammates who he also ended with the same record with 2 years ago….so where’s the mvp difference

Kyrie is NOT simply ... Kyrie. He's having an incredible year on pace for 50/40/90. That's pretty good for someone who almost no team even wanted anymore after BOS, BKN fiascos. I guess you don't know about his story.
They said he wouldn't work and mesh well but he does, they made it work. Last time Kyrie was this happy and playing well was when he was with Bron.

Gafford and PJ are not playing the same, they are playing winning basketball. Since FEB 1st, Mavs record is 22-8 (2nd best after Celtics). These two were never on a team with high playoff hopes. And they made it work. PJ is playing amazing defense, filling the wing defender role Mavs badly needed and simply works great in their starting lineup. Same goes for Gaff. I literally showed you a good argument, since Gafford is starting with Doncic, his record is 16-1.

Apart from KP and Brunson, i brought up older teammates (role players) because since they left Mavs, they all had down years or are almost out of lineup rotations. That's who Luka had to work with and he made it work.

Read on Twitter

[og15]

No, there is just still a bunch of people in this world that see white/euro and think "bad at basketball" or are just racist and refuse to come to terms with the fact that basketball isn't exactly exclusive to their culture anymore and is more of an inclusive global game now.

Past players, many of them, don't even hide this fact.

I call it the Larry Bird paradox, where a dude is considered the GOAT until 1988, ripped the hearts out of everyones favorite legends, but for some reason would be worse than Spencer Hawes if he played in the modern game to some people

We saw how slow it took people to finally appreciate Jokic. Dude put up essential 19/11/6 on close to 50/40/90 and wasn't even an All-Star People refuse to give Luka that LeBron treatment even though he's had a similar start to his career, just hasn't teamed up with other ATG's yet, and came in as a messiah type of prospect.

Unbiased/nonracist fans know what Luka is, 1 of the 3 players that is going to run his generation, and end up in the Top 15 ATG if he wins a ring. Which he no doubt will.

Hopefully people don't turn him into TJ McConnel though when he retires

yeah this isn't it. Not sure why you think poor white people never get their flowers, but let's not.

People realize Bird is an all-time great. People realize Luka is great. Even though they are white....

But this level of victimhood based on race? no, please no.

Considering Luka got All-NBA first team as a sophomore and every year after that and has been top 10 in MVP voting every season since his 2nd season, yea, you're probably correct that the take is pretty ignorant/ limited view.

First 5 NBA seasons:
4 x All-Star
4 x All-NBA First
4 x Top 10 MVP Voting

It's going to be 5/6 by the end of this season. How many guys have had that recognition their first 6 seasons?

[blueberrysticky]

Gafford has been feasting here with Luka elevating him. Literally had 26 points last night on 100% shooting off dunks from Luka creating.


Could you imagine how many points Edey would have scored versus UConn if he had a guard like Luka that would actually create at THAT level? Versus them just unable to penetrate and stand there hoping Edey will set them up for a 3.

Playmaking/opening up for your teammates while demanding a double team matters a lot.

Kyrie has been literal nba comeback player of the year next to Luka

[The High Cyde]

As a Clips fan, naw, we know how good he is. Lol sigh, ready for round 3 I guess

[blueberrysticky]

And also in the playoffs.

When the defenses get tighter (or actually played) and you have more half court sets…
That’s where Luka has shined the most because he separates himself offensively in creating offense out of nothing and making those tough shots

[mpoo_sin]

Luka is great but unfortunately James harden did it 1st and better with worse… and still lost the mvp to giannas, you gotta win

He will have the best season from a offensive production point in NBA history. Do not belittle this achievement by trying to put him on the same lvl as prime Harden. This season tops Hardens best.

thats a lie, prove your argument with advanced stats

He is at something like 57.5ish points created for the season.
The next two on the list is the best Harden season with around 56.x and Tiny Archibald also at 56.x.
Whe Wilt averaged 52 points or something like that, he just averaged 2 assists, which means he is just comming in fourth.

The stat made the round through the nba podcast last week. If someone has access to bball-index or something equivalent i m sure it is easy to verify. Ppg + points assisted.

[deneem4]

You argued that he doesn't make his teammates better, i never even mentioned MVP race.

Then what was your point of Exum, why did you bring him up? Exum is having his best NBA year so far.

Mavs are "only" 5th seed because they got plagued by injuries in the 1st half ot he season. Half of the rotational guys missed a lot of games. So, the fact that they're now 5th seed when finally somehow healthy, is quite an accomplishment. They also have 2nd best record since the trade deadline after the Celtics.

But i don't know what even is your argument anymore at this point, MVP race or how Luka doesn't make his team better? I'm actually confused.

It correlates, kyrie is kyrie
Gafford n pj are playing the same as the was on the other teams
I don’t see a luka effect on those 3 guys

U also brought up his old teammates who he also ended with the same record with 2 years ago….so where’s the mvp difference

Kyrie is NOT simply ... Kyrie. He's having an incredible year on pace for 50/40/90. That's pretty good for someone who almost no team even wanted anymore after BOS, BKN fiascos. I guess you don't know about his story.
They said he wouldn't work and mesh well but he does, they made it work. Last time Kyrie was this happy and playing well was when he was with Bron.

Gafford and PJ are not playing the same, they are playing winning basketball. Since FEB 1st, Mavs record is 22-8 (2nd best after Celtics). These two were never on a team with high playoff hopes. And they made it work. PJ is playing amazing defense, filling the wing defender role Mavs badly needed and simply works great in their starting lineup. Same goes for Gaff. I literally showed you a good argument, since Gafford is starting with Doncic, his record is 16-1.

Apart from KP and Brunson, i brought up older teammates (role players) because since they left Mavs, they all had down years or are almost out of lineup rotations. That's who Luka had to work with and he made it work.

Read on Twitter

You’re trying to equate kyrie year to luka instead of the literally political things I won’t elaborate on is crazy
Like are you serious??

Gafford been doing the same thing he did on the wizards
Pj is doing the same as he was on the hornets
Check the stats if you don’t believe me

What is the 16-1 record arguing???? Gafford when starting makes the mavs much better? Or luka when starting with gafford makes them better? I’m confused on that

His old role players teammates are mostly on tanking teams luka had Brunson who has lead the knicks with injuries this season to a record close to the mavs
And porzingis is a top 3 player on the best team in the league

[Archx]

It correlates, kyrie is kyrie
Gafford n pj are playing the same as the was on the other teams
I don’t see a luka effect on those 3 guys

U also brought up his old teammates who he also ended with the same record with 2 years ago….so where’s the mvp difference

Kyrie is NOT simply ... Kyrie. He's having an incredible year on pace for 50/40/90. That's pretty good for someone who almost no team even wanted anymore after BOS, BKN fiascos. I guess you don't know about his story.
They said he wouldn't work and mesh well but he does, they made it work. Last time Kyrie was this happy and playing well was when he was with Bron.

Gafford and PJ are not playing the same, they are playing winning basketball. Since FEB 1st, Mavs record is 22-8 (2nd best after Celtics). These two were never on a team with high playoff hopes. And they made it work. PJ is playing amazing defense, filling the wing defender role Mavs badly needed and simply works great in their starting lineup. Same goes for Gaff. I literally showed you a good argument, since Gafford is starting with Doncic, his record is 16-1.

Apart from KP and Brunson, i brought up older teammates (role players) because since they left Mavs, they all had down years or are almost out of lineup rotations. That's who Luka had to work with and he made it work.

Read on Twitter

You’re trying to equate kyrie year to luka instead of the literally political things I won’t elaborate on is crazy
Like are you serious??

Gafford been doing the same thing he did on the wizards
Pj is doing the same as he was on the hornets
Check the stats if you don’t believe me

What is the 16-1 record arguing???? Gafford when starting makes the mavs much better? Or luka when starting with gafford makes them better? I’m confused on that

His old role players teammates are mostly on tanking teams luka had Brunson who has lead the knicks with injuries this season to a record close to the mavs
And porzingis is a top 3 player on the best team in the league

You're trying to copy personal stats and compare it 1 : 1 without even going further into any context behind them. Then you ask me if i am serious?
So according to your logic, Jokic doesn't elevate his teammates either since guys like Gordon or KCP had better individual seasons with other teams as well. But we know it doesn't work like that.

You lack so many points in your arguments that you need to revert back to Brunson and KP to prove your point. I was talking about ROLE players and KP/Brunson stories are completely different and irrelevant in this context. In case you didn't know, Luka and Brunson did go to WCF together.

I understand now that it's clear you don't watch Mavs and you simply read box scores, so you're either trolling me hard or you lack the awareness of how little you actually know about what it means to elevate the team.

He is at something like 57.5ish points created for the season.

Before the Hornets game, he was at 60, but didn't check after.

[deneem4]

Kyrie is NOT simply ... Kyrie. He's having an incredible year on pace for 50/40/90. That's pretty good for someone who almost no team even wanted anymore after BOS, BKN fiascos. I guess you don't know about his story.
They said he wouldn't work and mesh well but he does, they made it work. Last time Kyrie was this happy and playing well was when he was with Bron.

Gafford and PJ are not playing the same, they are playing winning basketball. Since FEB 1st, Mavs record is 22-8 (2nd best after Celtics). These two were never on a team with high playoff hopes. And they made it work. PJ is playing amazing defense, filling the wing defender role Mavs badly needed and simply works great in their starting lineup. Same goes for Gaff. I literally showed you a good argument, since Gafford is starting with Doncic, his record is 16-1.

Apart from KP and Brunson, i brought up older teammates (role players) because since they left Mavs, they all had down years or are almost out of lineup rotations. That's who Luka had to work with and he made it work.

Read on Twitter

You’re trying to equate kyrie year to luka instead of the literally political things I won’t elaborate on is crazy
Like are you serious??

Gafford been doing the same thing he did on the wizards
Pj is doing the same as he was on the hornets
Check the stats if you don’t believe me

What is the 16-1 record arguing???? Gafford when starting makes the mavs much better? Or luka when starting with gafford makes them better? I’m confused on that

His old role players teammates are mostly on tanking teams luka had Brunson who has lead the knicks with injuries this season to a record close to the mavs
And porzingis is a top 3 player on the best team in the league

You're trying to copy personal stats and compare it 1 : 1 without even going further into any context behind them. Then you ask me if i am serious?
So according to your logic, Jokic doesn't elevate his teammates either since guys like Gordon or KCP had better individual seasons with other teams as well. But we know it doesn't work like that.

You lack so many points in your arguments that you need to revert back to Brunson and KP to prove your point. I was talking about ROLE players and KP/Brunson stories are completely different and irrelevant in this context. In case you didn't know, Luka and Brunson did go to WCF together.

I understand now that it's clear you don't watch Mavs and you simply read box scores, so you're either trolling me hard or you lack the awareness of how little you actually know about what it means to elevate the team.

Jokic elevates himself 1st of all, that’s why he’s an nba champion and mvp, he gets better when he needs to and it equates to winning
As a wizards fan I watched gafford play, this is what he do, it’s a reason he rarely plays over 25 mins a game with the mavs
That’s the point luka has seen success with Brunson, so why is this season where he hasn’t landed a top seed supposed to get him an mvp? When he has better role players and a star in kyrie irving

And for you to mention kyrie Boston and Brooklyn as a fiasco without factoring in the political climate he has weather these past few years is insane as a real basketball fan, you can’t be serious at all

[ChipotleWest]

Because he’s the same luka, he didn’t elevate his teammates the mavs got better teammates for him, no knock on him, but they’re winning games without luka now, n kyrie has entered the best guard of all time discussions again not to mention the dumpfires pj and gafford came from

How are DFS, Dinwiddie, Wood, Bullock, Pinson, etc.. doing these days?

Also..

Read on Twitter

How’s Brunson and porzingis doing these days?

And gafford was doin the same pretty much as a wizard maybe missed 2 shots

Brunson proved he was damn good in a Mavs uniform, you don't make the WCF by yourself even if you're Michael Jordan. It was Luka + Brunson + JAGs on that team. That is not a knock on Luka. It is still a compliment to both Luka and Brunson two point guards that Luka + Brunson + Dimwiddie who got waived this year beat the #1 Suns and made the WCF.

Porzingis was injured enough games to equal 2 seasons missed out of 3.5 seasons in Dallas. (he missed the entire first season after he was traded there + a full season worth of missed games due to injury) Not to mention you expected 21 year old Luka + Porzingis + JAGs to win it all or something? Luka was 22 when Porzingis left. Not to mention Porzingis came up small or they win that second series against Clippers 13 ppg give me a break while Luka averaged 35. And oh wow he's thriving as like the 3rd or 4th best guy on a stacked team because he couldn't do it as the 1st or 2nd best player on a team. He benefits when teams have to focus on Tatum and Brown.

[deneem4]

How are DFS, Dinwiddie, Wood, Bullock, Pinson, etc.. doing these days?

Also..

Read on Twitter

How’s Brunson and porzingis doing these days?

And gafford was doin the same pretty much as a wizard maybe missed 2 shots

Brunson proved he was damn good in a Mavs uniform, you don't make the WCF by yourself even if you're Michael Jordan. It was Luka + Brunson + JAGs on that team. That is not a knock on Luka. It is still a compliment to both Luka and Brunson two point guards that Luka + Brunson + Dimwiddie who got waived this year beat the #1 Suns and made the WCF.

Porzingis was injured enough games to equal 2 seasons missed out of 3.5 seasons in Dallas. (he missed the entire first season after he was traded there + a full season worth of missed games due to injury) Not to mention you expected 21 year old Luka + Porzingis + JAGs to win it all or something? Luka was 22 when Porzingis left. Not to mention Porzingis came up small or they win that second series against Clippers 13 ppg give me a break. And oh wow he's thriving as like the 3rd or 4th best guy on a stacked team because he couldn't do it as the 1st or 2nd best player on a team. He benefits when teams have to focus on Tatum and Brown.

Did you read what your fellow mavs fan posted??? Or

[ChipotleWest]

How’s Brunson and porzingis doing these days?

And gafford was doin the same pretty much as a wizard maybe missed 2 shots

Brunson proved he was damn good in a Mavs uniform, you don't make the WCF by yourself even if you're Michael Jordan. It was Luka + Brunson + JAGs on that team. That is not a knock on Luka. It is still a compliment to both Luka and Brunson two point guards that Luka + Brunson + Dimwiddie who got waived this year beat the #1 Suns and made the WCF.

Porzingis was injured enough games to equal 2 seasons missed out of 3.5 seasons in Dallas. (he missed the entire first season after he was traded there + a full season worth of missed games due to injury) Not to mention you expected 21 year old Luka + Porzingis + JAGs to win it all or something? Luka was 22 when Porzingis left. Not to mention Porzingis came up small or they win that second series against Clippers 13 ppg give me a break. And oh wow he's thriving as like the 3rd or 4th best guy on a stacked team because he couldn't do it as the 1st or 2nd best player on a team. He benefits when teams have to focus on Tatum and Brown.

Did you read what your fellow mavs fan posted??? Or

I don't know what you're talking about just be clear and say what you mean. That's what I did and you can't disprove any of it because it's correct.

[deneem4]

Brunson proved he was damn good in a Mavs uniform, you don't make the WCF by yourself even if you're Michael Jordan. It was Luka + Brunson + JAGs on that team. That is not a knock on Luka. It is still a compliment to both Luka and Brunson two point guards that Luka + Brunson + Dimwiddie who got waived this year beat the #1 Suns and made the WCF.

Porzingis was injured enough games to equal 2 seasons missed out of 3.5 seasons in Dallas. (he missed the entire first season after he was traded there + a full season worth of missed games due to injury) Not to mention you expected 21 year old Luka + Porzingis + JAGs to win it all or something? Luka was 22 when Porzingis left. Not to mention Porzingis came up small or they win that second series against Clippers 13 ppg give me a break. And oh wow he's thriving as like the 3rd or 4th best guy on a stacked team because he couldn't do it as the 1st or 2nd best player on a team. He benefits when teams have to focus on Tatum and Brown.

Did you read what your fellow mavs fan posted??? Or

I don't know what you're talking about just be clear and say what you mean. That's what I did and you can't disprove any of it because it's correct.

He named luka former teammates on bad teams and name the ones on good ones

“Archx wrote:

How are DFS, Dinwiddie, Wood, Bullock, Pinson, etc.. doing these days?

“

[Oscar9992]

It correlates, kyrie is kyrie
Gafford n pj are playing the same as the was on the other teams
I don’t see a luka effect on those 3 guys

U also brought up his old teammates who he also ended with the same record with 2 years ago….so where’s the mvp difference

Kyrie is NOT simply ... Kyrie. He's having an incredible year on pace for 50/40/90. That's pretty good for someone who almost no team even wanted anymore after BOS, BKN fiascos. I guess you don't know about his story.
They said he wouldn't work and mesh well but he does, they made it work. Last time Kyrie was this happy and playing well was when he was with Bron.

Gafford and PJ are not playing the same, they are playing winning basketball. Since FEB 1st, Mavs record is 22-8 (2nd best after Celtics). These two were never on a team with high playoff hopes. And they made it work. PJ is playing amazing defense, filling the wing defender role Mavs badly needed and simply works great in their starting lineup. Same goes for Gaff. I literally showed you a good argument, since Gafford is starting with Doncic, his record is 16-1.

Apart from KP and Brunson, i brought up older teammates (role players) because since they left Mavs, they all had down years or are almost out of lineup rotations. That's who Luka had to work with and he made it work.

Read on Twitter

You’re trying to equate kyrie year to luka instead of the literally political things I won’t elaborate on is crazy
Like are you serious??

Gafford been doing the same thing he did on the wizards
Pj is doing the same as he was on the hornets
Check the stats if you don’t believe me

What is the 16-1 record arguing???? Gafford when starting makes the mavs much better? Or luka when starting with gafford makes them better? I’m confused on that

His old role players teammates are mostly on tanking teams luka had Brunson who has lead the knicks with injuries this season to a record close to the mavs
And porzingis is a top 3 player on the best team in the league

Luka helps Gafford a lot. He literally scored 26 Pts on 100% FG last night.

Also had a 33 straight FGs streak before Luka got injured & he couldn't beat Chamberlain's 35 straight FGs record.

[ChipotleWest]

Did you read what your fellow mavs fan posted??? Or

I don't know what you're talking about just be clear and say what you mean. That's what I did and you can't disprove any of it because it's correct.

He named luka former teammates on bad teams and name the ones on good ones

Ok your point? You rarely have one.

He's correct btw, so?

[zzzyyxyyxzzz]

So you're saying Luka should be the MVP but you don't want to explain why. Thank you for your contribution.

I wouldn't be saying anything new, but I'll bite.

No player has ever had 33/9/9. Ever. Not even MJ.

He scored the 4th highest points in a game in NBA history this year, in a game where it actually mattered.
He is 1st in points, 2nd in assists, 2nd in 3pts made, 16th in rebounds, 9th in steals.
He's scored the most offensive iso ppg in the league this year, even though he is the most doubled as well.
He leads a team that was plagued by injuries half the season, as well as the most inconsistent lineup (top lineup has played 162 min together, and it is the only one above 100 min) to a 50+ wins and 5th seed in a stacked west.
He leads his team in pts, rebounds, assists, and steals.
He was named player of the month in the west for 40% of the season.

Is that enough of a contribution?

[Johnny Firpo]

Yes gafford has always been ultra efficient which is why wiz fans was mad we didn’t get enough back for him

Are you saying he’s made kyrie better?
Pj been playing the same as he was a hornet
Exum is exum
They are better than they were last year obviously , but what about the years before with the bad players you named, record still the same as now? Or marginally better?

Luka has already won 53 games in the WCF year with a clearly worse roster than his current one. Also, it's pretty clear that out of all the other top 10 players in the last three-four years, he had the the worst rosters around him. I mean, if not him, then who? I'm not even sure about this current roster to be honest, and will have to see if they crap the bad. I have a feeling that Luka won't, based on his previous playoff appearances.

So why should he get mvp this year when he won more games 2 years ago with a worse roster?

I don't think he should get it, Jokic is clearly the better player at this point and has better impact stats. My point was that the record is more his teammates' performance fault, and also some bad luck (injuries). But anyway, next year could be a different conversation, Luka getting into his age 26 season, that's usually peak performance (that and age 27 season), so hopefully the team can finally win 57-58, and that could put him over the top potentially (with better advanced stats).

[ChipotleWest]

Luka has already won 53 games in the WCF year with a clearly worse roster than his current one. Also, it's pretty clear that out of all the other top 10 players in the last three-four years, he had the the worst rosters around him. I mean, if not him, then who? I'm not even sure about this current roster to be honest, and will have to see if they crap the bad. I have a feeling that Luka won't, based on his previous playoff appearances.

So why should he get mvp this year when he won more games 2 years ago with a worse roster?

I don't think he should get it, Jokic is clearly the better player at this point and has better impact stats. My point was that the record is more his teammates' performance fault, and also some bad luck (injuries). But anyway, next year could be a different conversation, Luka getting into his age 26 season, that's usually peak performance (that and age 27 season), so hopefully the team can finally win 57-58, and that could put him over the top potentially (with better advanced stats).

Kyrie has missed a bunch of games, Lively's missed a bunch of games, other Mavs have missed games as well. If they were healthy and had Gafford and Washington all season this would be close to a 60 win team. 21-7 since the trade deadline is 2nd best record in the League in that time frame behind Boston. It would average out to 60 wins over an 82 game season.