The Clippers should not be this good without Kawhi. Update: Kawhi to return Jan 4th vs the Hawks

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Re: The Clippers should not be this good without Kawhi. 

Post#101 » by clippertown » Thu Nov 28, 2024 9:11 pm

Jabroni Lames wrote:Clippers have a worse ORTG than the Toronto Raptors, for example. They're tied with the Pistons for 23rd overall, and barely above the Hornets. I mean, technically you *could* call it a Harden carry job (because of his high USG & AST%) ... but he's not carrying them very far on offense.

Clippers are winning with defense and coaching.

Clipper's offense WAS awful. Harden, before last night, was shooting terribly and so was Kevin Porter, who could not hit a bucket. The thing is this team's offense is almost exclusively coming from the PG/SG positions. That means more shots in the paint, more assists and many more offensive rebounds. Harden is not shooting well and not getting many calls, but he is getting to his spots and he is dominating his opponents one on one. Same with KPJ. When they both start making shots, then the offense will flourish.

Also, once Norm comes back, if Harden is also hitting shots, then their offense will get better again. Rinse and repeat for Kawhi.
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Re: The Clippers should not be this good without Kawhi. 

Post#102 » by clippertown » Thu Nov 28, 2024 9:21 pm

OkcSinceSGA wrote:
SerialChiller wrote:When I first saw this thread title I half expected to see NBA4Lyfe as the OP who started it with an angle to praise Harden. Then when I saw it wasn't him I clicked on it to see how many pages it would take for him to show up and credit Harden with all of the Clippers modest success so far. The answer was a surprising 3 whole pages!


I think it’s because anyone watching the team knows that while Harden has been huge with his gravity, playmaking and maybe most importantly leadership… Zubac and Dunn for example deserve the same praise. Dunn is now at a 3.0 EPM which is insane considering he doesn’t score.

He’s literally anchoring the Clippers defense with Zu, and the defense is what’s carried them. They are basically tied with the Warriors for the 4th ranked defense, but only the 22nd ranked offense.

Harden is 3rd on the team in EPM. If his shooting efficiency goes back up from a career low, he will likely get even more praise.

Dunn has been the biggest surprise on the team so far. His intuition on defense has been elite. Not sure where to put Dunn once Norm and Kawhi come back, but I am starting to believe he is deserving of the starting SG spot, and that is saying something when Norm is playing at an all-star level. Defensively, the starting lineup would be a nightmare, and the bench is also very solid.

C = Zu / Bamba / Kai
PF = DJJ / Batum / Kobe
SF = Kawhi / Mann / Coffey
SG = Dunn / Norm / Miller
PG = Harden / KPJ / Bones
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Re: The Clippers should not be this good without Kawhi. 

Post#103 » by DreamTeam09 » Thu Nov 28, 2024 9:49 pm

A solid big and a guard with some gravity and some defenders/shooters on the wing is the basis for a solid team
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Re: The Clippers should not be this good without Kawhi. 

Post#104 » by OkcSinceSGA » Thu Nov 28, 2024 10:28 pm

clippertown wrote:
OkcSinceSGA wrote:
SerialChiller wrote:When I first saw this thread title I half expected to see NBA4Lyfe as the OP who started it with an angle to praise Harden. Then when I saw it wasn't him I clicked on it to see how many pages it would take for him to show up and credit Harden with all of the Clippers modest success so far. The answer was a surprising 3 whole pages!


I think it’s because anyone watching the team knows that while Harden has been huge with his gravity, playmaking and maybe most importantly leadership… Zubac and Dunn for example deserve the same praise. Dunn is now at a 3.0 EPM which is insane considering he doesn’t score.

He’s literally anchoring the Clippers defense with Zu, and the defense is what’s carried them. They are basically tied with the Warriors for the 4th ranked defense, but only the 22nd ranked offense.

Harden is 3rd on the team in EPM. If his shooting efficiency goes back up from a career low, he will likely get even more praise.

Dunn has been the biggest surprise on the team so far. His intuition on defense has been elite. Not sure where to put Dunn once Norm and Kawhi come back, but I am starting to believe he is deserving of the starting SG spot, and that is saying something when Norm is playing at an all-star level. Defensively, the starting lineup would be a nightmare, and the bench is also very solid.

C = Zu / Bamba / Kai
PF = DJJ / Batum / Kobe
SF = Kawhi / Mann / Coffey
SG = Dunn / Norm / Miller
PG = Harden / KPJ / Bones


Dunn has a real argument for DPOY race and the best bargain free agency signing. They got him at like 4 million per year for 3 years? Having a +3 EPM as a 6’3 guard is insane. I hope he gets a top 3-4 DPOY nod. I know Wemby is likely to run away with it, but if the Clippers finish a top 3 defense and Spurs are mid.. it’s a conversation to have
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Re: The Clippers should not be this good without Kawhi. 

Post#105 » by Ballings7 » Thu Nov 28, 2024 11:19 pm

Always been a strong supporter of Dunn since his Bulls days, prior to his excursion to GLeague.

His defense, rebounding, ability to get to the paint, was his calling card coming into the league.

In the 2019–20 season, Dunn finished eleventh in All-Defensive team voting. Although he narrowly missed out on both All-Defensive First and Second team, he received the only votes out of the players on a non playoff team or in the experimental "bubble" in Orlando. Dunn received four first team votes and twenty-three second team votes.


https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/dunnkr01.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kris_Dunn

then came back on the Jazz with an improved jumpshot and set himself up to truly revive his NBA career

Always really liked his overall size and agility as a big, athletic defensive PG who has some scoring ability.. just had to refine his offensive game.

Loved the signing by the Clippers for what they needed at guard, and have not really ever had in one player in awhile.
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Re: The Clippers should not be this good without Kawhi. 

Post#106 » by Roscoe Sheed » Fri Nov 29, 2024 2:02 am

Dunn is such an upgrade over Westbrook for what the Clippers need- a great defensive player who can guard 3 positions at an elite level and a very steady presence on offense who almost always stays within his limits rather than wildly attempting layups, turning the ball over or taking odd mid-range shots like Westbrook
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Re: The Clippers should not be this good without Kawhi. 

Post#107 » by clippertown » Fri Nov 29, 2024 8:28 pm

Roscoe Sheed wrote:Dunn is such an upgrade over Westbrook for what the Clippers need- a great defensive player who can guard 3 positions at an elite level and a very steady presence on offense who almost always stays within his limits rather than wildly attempting layups, turning the ball over or taking odd mid-range shots like Westbrook

It’s strange, but on a team of 15 players, only three players are shooting the ball in a random manner - everybody else is shooting in a very structured manner, within the offensive scheme. Harden, Norm and KPJ on one side and Zu, Dunn, DJJ, Mann, Coffey, Batum etc on the other side. This really helps the Clippers with consistent scoring even during droughts (rare this season).
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Re: The Clippers should not be this good without Kawhi. 

Post#108 » by clippertown » Fri Nov 29, 2024 8:32 pm

OkcSinceSGA wrote:
clippertown wrote:
OkcSinceSGA wrote:
I think it’s because anyone watching the team knows that while Harden has been huge with his gravity, playmaking and maybe most importantly leadership… Zubac and Dunn for example deserve the same praise. Dunn is now at a 3.0 EPM which is insane considering he doesn’t score.

He’s literally anchoring the Clippers defense with Zu, and the defense is what’s carried them. They are basically tied with the Warriors for the 4th ranked defense, but only the 22nd ranked offense.

Harden is 3rd on the team in EPM. If his shooting efficiency goes back up from a career low, he will likely get even more praise.

Dunn has been the biggest surprise on the team so far. His intuition on defense has been elite. Not sure where to put Dunn once Norm and Kawhi come back, but I am starting to believe he is deserving of the starting SG spot, and that is saying something when Norm is playing at an all-star level. Defensively, the starting lineup would be a nightmare, and the bench is also very solid.

C = Zu / Bamba / Kai
PF = DJJ / Batum / Kobe
SF = Kawhi / Mann / Coffey
SG = Dunn / Norm / Miller
PG = Harden / KPJ / Bones


Dunn has a real argument for DPOY race and the best bargain free agency signing. They got him at like 4 million per year for 3 years? Having a +3 EPM as a 6’3 guard is insane. I hope he gets a top 3-4 DPOY nod. I know Wemby is likely to run away with it, but if the Clippers finish a top 3 defense and Spurs are mid.. it’s a conversation to have

I am astounded that Dunn is proving to be a more capable defender than Derrick Jones Jr, who has improved on his stellar defense from last season with the Mavs. Also better than Mann or Coffey, our best defenders last year. DPOY or MIP possibilities here.
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Re: The Clippers should not be this good without Kawhi. 

Post#109 » by OkcSinceSGA » Fri Nov 29, 2024 8:41 pm

Read on Twitter


Kawhi nearing a comeback? I'm very curious how much he helps. The supporting cast of complimentary players would be the best he's had in LA possibly, including better than the PG years. If Kawhi returns and he's similar to last year, what do you guys think the max upside is?
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Re: The Clippers should not be this good without Kawhi. 

Post#110 » by OkcSinceSGA » Fri Nov 29, 2024 8:47 pm

clippertown wrote:
OkcSinceSGA wrote:
clippertown wrote:Dunn has been the biggest surprise on the team so far. His intuition on defense has been elite. Not sure where to put Dunn once Norm and Kawhi come back, but I am starting to believe he is deserving of the starting SG spot, and that is saying something when Norm is playing at an all-star level. Defensively, the starting lineup would be a nightmare, and the bench is also very solid.

C = Zu / Bamba / Kai
PF = DJJ / Batum / Kobe
SF = Kawhi / Mann / Coffey
SG = Dunn / Norm / Miller
PG = Harden / KPJ / Bones


Dunn has a real argument for DPOY race and the best bargain free agency signing. They got him at like 4 million per year for 3 years? Having a +3 EPM as a 6’3 guard is insane. I hope he gets a top 3-4 DPOY nod. I know Wemby is likely to run away with it, but if the Clippers finish a top 3 defense and Spurs are mid.. it’s a conversation to have

I am astounded that Dunn is proving to be a more capable defender than Derrick Jones Jr, who has improved on his stellar defense from last season with the Mavs. Also better than Mann or Coffey, our best defenders last year. DPOY or MIP possibilities here.


For sure. I agree I expected DJ to be the better defender, but it's been Dunn by a mile actually. His tenacity off ball with the passing lanes is just creating a nightmare for teams. He's getting through screens and just terrorizing teams with those interceptions or deflections. What's impressive is most of his deflections are controlled brilliantly to teammates. They aren't just knocking them out of bounds. The mad man will literally break up a pass, then save it from going out of bounds to a teammate.

The underrated part that isn't getting discussed enough that JVG I'm sure has his fingerprints all over is them getting through screens. In prior years the Clippers played the same switch everything defense but they got ANNIHILIATED on screens. Everyone would just die on screens leading to SO many open shots for other teams. The difference I'm seeing is guys like Dunn/DJ and even seeing it with Harden/Powell now... are successfully getting through screens or at least navigating them MUCH faster for closeouts.

To be about 20 games in and still have the defensive motor is probably the first time in 25 years as a Clippers watcher I've seen a team with this much defensive tenacity up and down the roster. I think if you didn't have the Boston beatdown they could really push into a top 3 defense this year, which considering the talent being much less than OKC for example, that's amazing.

I imagine if they had Kawhi since game 1 they could be a shocking 2-3 seed currently (probably a similar or better record than the Rockets have) and a top 3 defense. I think the big thing is Kawhi HAS to start advancing in his recovery. Him still not practicing isn't good IMO. They need a general idea of when he's returning.
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Re: The Clippers should not be this good without Kawhi. 

Post#111 » by og15 » Fri Nov 29, 2024 8:56 pm

OkcSinceSGA wrote:
Read on Twitter


Kawhi nearing a comeback? I'm very curious how much he helps. The supporting cast of complimentary players would be the best he's had in LA possibly, including better than the PG years. If Kawhi returns and he's similar to last year, what do you guys think the max upside is?

How Pat Bev reads the texts is funny.

Kawhi returning healthy would definitely make this a very nice squad. Defensive identity with a primary playmaker to get guys involved and a deadly isolation primary scorer.
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Re: The Clippers should not be this good without Kawhi. 

Post#112 » by OkcSinceSGA » Mon Dec 2, 2024 5:38 pm

Harden is rounding into Houston form the last few games.

Also random but

Read on Twitter
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Re: The Clippers should not be this good without Kawhi. 

Post#113 » by og15 » Mon Dec 2, 2024 8:10 pm

OkcSinceSGA wrote:Harden is rounding into Houston form the last few games.

Also random but

Read on Twitter

Lol, maybe Ballmer was on to something
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Re: The Clippers should not be this good without Kawhi. 

Post#114 » by OkcSinceSGA » Wed Dec 4, 2024 4:25 pm

Read on Twitter


Kris Dunn leads the NBA in D-EPM with Zu close behind. That combined with Harden’s playmaking engine.
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Re: The Clippers should not be this good without Kawhi. 

Post#115 » by OkcSinceSGA » Wed Dec 4, 2024 6:54 pm

Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Hell of a year as a leader.
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Re: The Clippers should not be this good without Kawhi. 

Post#116 » by DLoMor » Thu Dec 5, 2024 5:56 am

28 point loss at home to the TWolves, lets stop overrating coach Ty Lue now, hes not a top 5 coach in the NBA.
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Re: The Clippers should not be this good without Kawhi. 

Post#117 » by Roscoe Sheed » Thu Dec 5, 2024 6:39 am

DLoMor wrote:28 point loss at home to the TWolves, lets stop overrating coach Ty Lue now, hes not a top 5 coach in the NBA.

They were dead tired. Back to back with 4 key guys out and playing the most games in the nba at this point
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Re: The Clippers should not be this good without Kawhi. 

Post#118 » by dhsilv2 » Thu Dec 5, 2024 6:54 am

Roscoe Sheed wrote:
DLoMor wrote:28 point loss at home to the TWolves, lets stop overrating coach Ty Lue now, hes not a top 5 coach in the NBA.

They were dead tired. Back to back with 4 key guys out and playing the most games in the nba at this point


that had to be a troll..i mean come on...
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Re: The Clippers should not be this good without Kawhi. 

Post#119 » by DLoMor » Thu Dec 5, 2024 6:56 am

dhsilv2 wrote:
Roscoe Sheed wrote:
DLoMor wrote:28 point loss at home to the TWolves, lets stop overrating coach Ty Lue now, hes not a top 5 coach in the NBA.

They were dead tired. Back to back with 4 key guys out and playing the most games in the nba at this point


that had to be a troll..i mean come on...

How am I a troll? I’ve said my reasoning plenty of times how Ty Lue is not that good of a coach and is overrated and won a ring cause Lebron carried him, he hasn’t done crap since, his first year with Clippers he did well, ever since, the Clippers have done bad, especially in the playoffs, if the Clippers ever wanna be better and do well, they need to get a new head coach.
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Re: The Clippers should not be this good without Kawhi. 

Post#120 » by dhsilv2 » Thu Dec 5, 2024 7:00 am

DLoMor wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Roscoe Sheed wrote:They were dead tired. Back to back with 4 key guys out and playing the most games in the nba at this point


that had to be a troll..i mean come on...

How am I a troll? I’ve said my reasoning plenty of times how Ty Lue is not that good of a coach and is overrated and won a ring cause Lebron carried him, he hasn’t done crap since, his first year with Clippers he did well, ever since, the Clippers have done bad, especially in the playoffs, if the Clippers ever wanna be better and do well, they need to get a new head coach.


I mean...you actually made the case you're trolling.

Losing a game without the 4 best players doesn't support you here. It's like if I had a corolla and I said it sucks at cornering vs a sports car...but said the proof was after all 4 of my tires were flat or their tred was gone. I can be right and still trolling. And I'd hope we'd agree that's trolling.

You did the same thing effectively.

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