At what point does 76ers hole become too big?

[John Murdoch]

I really do think them and the Pelicans are just gonna tank it out this season.

Hmm gave me an idea. What about a Zion for Embiid trade?

At this point i think Zion actually has more trade value which is weird to say out loud

[Lalouie]

there is none because the east is so weak, so they'll never be totally out.

but imo if there's a trend at half season, prolly in some form of injury to embiid(not pg cuz he's cooked) then philly's goose is ready

[Jabroni Lames]

Embiid has switched nationalities Embiid will now play for Finland because he is Finished. Will he ever be healthy? I don’t know who’s knees are worse Kawhi’s or Embiid’s. At least Kawhi was smart to withdraw from the Olympics.

Read on Twitter

Kawhi didn't withdraw from the Olympics. He got cut by Team USA's decision makers. And for some weird reason, Lawrence Frank & the Clippers brass were upset by them kicking Kawhi off the team.

Read on Twitter

[Sane]

Hey if he was my franchise player and he was facing unavoidable knee issues, I would give him every excuse to rest for the first half of every regular season too. He's won the regular season awards. If the team can win home court advantage with him resting 20-30% of the time, then it's a championship contender.

I have no problem with it. They will be winning a lot by mid season with Embiid, George and Maxey gaining some chemistry and momentum.

[Fantastik_Goat]

It’s like throwing a hotdog down a hallway

[shi-woo]

This team is paying over $100 mil a year to Embiid and George over the next 3 years AFTER this year. 40 for Maxey and about 10 for Martin.

About 160 mil for just 4 players. The 1st APRn is 178 for those who didn't know, and the cap is 140.

The fact that we're talking playin here is pretty bad, especially with no guarantee that Joel or George will bounce back, and we know McCain isn't going to be doing this all year once he's no longer the new kid on the block.

I haven't seen a situation worse than this since the Pistons signed Charlie and Josh Smith.

Philly will only be signing washed vets and rookies from here on out till they move one or both of their 50 mil washed vets.

They signed those contracts too knowing the last couple years would be tough, given the age and injury history of both players, so it was all really about these first couple of years. This year is a wash, over. Next year is going to be interesting.

Even if this team won't blow it up, or can't, they should explore seeing what they can get for their other vets. Lowry, Gordon, Drummond, and Oubre might fetch them a pick or a young guy. If they do make the play in it won't be because those guys are going off, it will be because their stars will be playing. I'd try to set up for next year and beyond at this point.

And1 for mentioning the pathetic Pistons with Charlie V and Josh Smith . . . but I think a better analogy is the BRK Nets team built around ageing Celtics KG/Pierce.

I don't think they can get a pick or a young guy for Lowry, Gordon or Drummond: I think they're all min-salary players who hold no trade value. PHI might get something for Oubre, but I wouldn't expect much, or expect what they get back to improve this year's team.

I am also with those saying that just getting to the play-in isn't enough because that's a sure trip to a quick playoff exit. The EC, for all its issues, has a few fine teams at the top, and a couple at roughly .500 that could put it together if they move past injuries.

edit: typo

You have to remember that the Net's trade involved unloading a terrible Gerald Wallace contract that was thee worst in the league at the time. That's how Danny swindled those BRK picks, Wallaces contract was that bad back then, and he ended up retiring at the end of it.

BRK did good in the actual trade outside of the picks they threw in, the team was screwed either way cap wise, and the trade at least gave them cap flexibility and a chance to have a one year run.

Philly's moves are more like those Pistons, because they didn't need to do them, they just did them anyways, and capped themselves into mediocrity looking to trade dudes they invested a lot in. It's also worth mentioning Philly, like DET at that time, also has two prospects that play similar and and have a bunch of overlapping skills

[thelead]

They are 3 games back of a play-in spot with 64 games to go…

[NoStatsGuy]

this season isnt lost at all. they can easily be in the play for homecourt in march.

1 or 2 little 4-5 game streaks or one really good month and they are somewhere between 7 and 10.

the only thing that matters for the sixers is players being healthy and get some chemistry going betweend maxey, joel and PG. most teams will look vastly different after the all star break

[Knightfall]

this season isnt lost at all. they can easily be in the play for homecourt in march.

1 or 2 little 4-5 game streaks or one really good month and they are somewhere between 7 and 10.

the only thing that matters for the sixers is players being healthy and get some chemistry going betweend maxey, joel and PG. most teams will look vastly different after the all star break

Almost evryone makes the playoffs in the current format. Just because your team can make the play in isnt something to celebrate. Especially as bad as majority of the east has been this season. 7 blind men in the east are in a race to get better by not making the playoffs out of them 5 will make it. The other 2 will make this magical play in spot and go for slaughter with no improvement.

[Johnny Bball]

this season isnt lost at all. they can easily be in the play for homecourt in march.

1 or 2 little 4-5 game streaks or one really good month and they are somewhere between 7 and 10.

the only thing that matters for the sixers is players being healthy and get some chemistry going betweend maxey, joel and PG. most teams will look vastly different after the all star break

Sixers are not getting home court this year. No way.

[Knicksfan1992]

Daryl Morey has become the used car salesman of GM's in the NBA.

He's now run two franchises into the ground around aging superstars.

It doesn't matter if the Sixers get in because they are a horribly constructed team that relies on two unreliable guys when it comes to playoff time. PG was a bad albatross contract the minute the ink became dry and you compounded it with the fact that the guy you were pairing it with is one of the most injury prone guys in the league. Their only saving grace is that Maxey is a stud and McCain looks ok. Even with that I don't think its a viable future backcourt because it's horrible defensively and pretty small. You'll probably have to make McCain a 6th man which is a good return for a mid 1st. However, it's not really franchise-altering which is what they would have needed to salvage this.

They should trade Embiid in the offseason and PG at midseason. You can at least get younger and fresher around Maxey and McCain and probably still make the playoffs if you get good role players and a young guy with potential. The bottom of the East isn't that good. Recoup some picks and try to jump in on the next disgruntled star in a year or 2 to pair with Maxey and whoever you get in the Embiid and PG trades.

Still Morey has proven he has no idea how to fill out a balanced roster around his "stars". Drummond has been terrible in a high pressure situation predictably. Their wing depth is pretty awful with Oubre being particularly bad and inefficient. Caleb Martin has been bad as soon as he left Spo (shocker). Oh yeah... and he has another 3 years with a player option attached. Eric Gordon is cooked. Just an awful job around the margins for a team that really needed to hit on those kind of moves given the injury prone status of their 2 highest paid guys.

If I were a Sixers fan I'd be livid. Morey has been terrible and basically living off of the Embiid injury excuse for 2 years now.

[Memories]

Sixers are in the East. They aren't even close to losing this season yet.

If it was the West, then yeah, capture the Flagg.

[HotelVitale]

Daryl Morey has become the used car salesman of GM's in the NBA.

He's now run two franchises into the ground around aging superstars.

It doesn't matter if the Sixers get in because they are a horribly constructed team that relies on two unreliable guys when it comes to playoff time...If I were a Sixers fan I'd be livid. Morey has been terrible and basically living off of the Embiid injury excuse for 2 years now.

This all sounds like sports talk radio jawing, Morey's not some amazing genius or whatever but he's generally made good gambles and given the Sixers chances while they were in tight spots. Only the most low-info Sixers fans think he sucks at his job or put the blame for the Sixers' current situation.

I won't go through all of Morey's good moves--or rather his gambles that worked out--but there are a good # of them. He's got faults for sure but it's also not really his fault that Embiid's immature on court and off, that the Simmons thing happened, that he came into a team with Al Horford on a large contract and a maxed out Tobias Harris, etc. We've had chances to go further than we did every single year and the end result was always disappointment on the court, and then some decent moves to make the team better.

This year almost everything he tried isn't working. It happens. Aside from McCain and Yabusele being really good on offense right away, every other move's been bad luck. PG gets injured sometimes, sure, but he doesn't usually miss most of the first month of a season, Embiid gets injured too but he's never had anything like his start to this season, Maxey has a long track record of playing better than he has so far, and then all of the pretty solid older vet min guys who played well enough last year--R Jackson, Lowry, Drummond, E Gordon, etc--just haven't played well so far and look like they're one season too far. Saying they should've somehow got better vet min guys or ones who would be playing better now is just that empty sports talk time-filler. Yeah we would all liked to win gambles and land players who play well. Same thing with C Martin and Oubre, got both on good deals and they're simply playing much worse than they have in the recent past.

I don't mind basic criticism of Morey, he has a couple of big and consistent blindspots IMO. And the Sixers are in a garbage situation at the moment. Just tedious to hear takes like 'Drummond was signed for the minimum and he hasn't saved the franchise?!?' and 'Caleb Martin had a bad month, Morey failed!' We're all smart enough and have seen enough ball to know that all of team building takes a ton of luck, and all a GM really does is try to make the best of his opportunities etc.

[Karate Diop]

this season isnt lost at all. they can easily be in the play for homecourt in march.

1 or 2 little 4-5 game streaks or one really good month and they are somewhere between 7 and 10.

the only thing that matters for the sixers is players being healthy and get some chemistry going betweend maxey, joel and PG. most teams will look vastly different after the all star break

Yeah just 1 or 2 little 4-5 game win steaks that the Sixers have shown no ability to put together this season...

They're cooked. Ben Simmons has been more reliable than Embiid this year.

[Knicksfan1992]

Daryl Morey has become the used car salesman of GM's in the NBA.

He's now run two franchises into the ground around aging superstars.

It doesn't matter if the Sixers get in because they are a horribly constructed team that relies on two unreliable guys when it comes to playoff time...If I were a Sixers fan I'd be livid. Morey has been terrible and basically living off of the Embiid injury excuse for 2 years now.

This all sounds like sports talk radio jawing, Morey's not some amazing genius or whatever but he's generally made good gambles and given the Sixers chances while they were in tight spots. Only the most low-info Sixers fans think he sucks at his job or put the blame for the Sixers' current situation.

I won't go through all of Morey's good moves--or rather his gambles that worked out--but there are a good # of them. He's got faults for sure but it's also not really his fault that Embiid's immature on court and off, that the Simmons thing happened, that he came into a team with Al Horford on a large contract and a maxed out Tobias Harris, etc. We've had chances to go further than we did every single year and the end result was always disappointment on the court, and then some decent moves to make the team better.

This year almost everything he tried isn't working. It happens. Aside from McCain and Yabusele being really good on offense right away, every other move's been bad luck. PG gets injured sometimes, sure, but he doesn't usually miss most of the first month of a season, Embiid gets injured too but he's never had anything like his start to this season, Maxey has a long track record of playing better than he has so far, and then all of the pretty solid older vet min guys who played well enough last year--R Jackson, Lowry, Drummond, E Gordon, etc--just haven't played well so far and look like they're one season too far. Saying they should've somehow got better vet min guys or ones who would be playing better now is just that empty sports talk time-filler. Yeah we would all liked to win gambles and land players who play well. Same thing with C Martin and Oubre, got both on good deals and they're simply playing much worse than they have in the recent past.

I don't mind basic criticism of Morey, he has a couple of big and consistent blindspots IMO. And the Sixers are in a garbage situation at the moment. Just tedious to hear takes like 'Drummond was signed for the minimum and he hasn't saved the franchise?!?' and 'Caleb Martin had a bad month, Morey failed!' We're all smart enough and have seen enough ball to know that all of team building takes a ton of luck, and all a GM really does is try to make the best of his opportunities etc.

Eh this seems like more excuse making to me. It's the story of his GM'ing career IMO. Chuck everything up to bad luck when it doesn't work out. Sell everyone on the "moar stars" approach and when it doesn't work out because the rest of the roster has holes or he banked on the wrong mix of stars working out you can just blame it on "bad luck". Fine you want to chuck up the Rockets to just having bad timing because of the Warriors... I'm willing to listen to that argument. I think what he's done as a Sixers GM is not bad luck however. I refuse to believe that. It's bad planning IMO.

Sorry if it comes off as sports radio talk. I just don't want to drole on in paragraphs about why I think Morey isn't a great GM on the whole and particularly his Sixers tenure has been poor. Here's some basic stuff he missed on, IMO, when taking into account what the Sixers had:

- One of the main issues with the Sixers over the years has been the non-Embiid minutes. Yet him and every other GM never seem to put any real resources into a quality backup C or at least do the scouting necessary to find the right cheap one. They already had Drummond once and he failed! Why do it again?! When they did try to make sure they had cover for him they spunked the money on Horford (not Morey I know) but just because it didn't work once with committing something significant to a backup big doesn't mean you should abandon the idea altogether. Especially when you know your C is going to, at this point, miss 20 games a year. And that's the optimistic outlook! How do you not invest something significant for insurance purposes for your broken star? These are the bigs he invested in since taking the GM role:

Washed Dwight (minimum)
Vincent Poirier (out of the league)
Drummond (2x both minimum deals)
Paul Reed (probably the best result but still was not a great player no matter how many "out the mud" shirts he sold LOL)
Washed Millsap (minimum)
Cauley-Stein (out of the league)
Washed DeAndre Jordan (minimum)
Harrell (This was probably his best attempt to cover for Embiid with a real guy. Just didn't work out)

Not one significant draft pick used on this position since he's taken over. Had to let Paul Reed walk so he could do what he did this summer. And even with Paul Reed, he got played off the floor in the playoffs... He's just maneuvered incredibly poorly when it comes to the C position IMO when it's been known that the Sixers have lost series before because they could not survive without Embiid on the floor. That's not "bad luck" it's just poor planning IMO.

-Doubling down on an oft-injured over 30 player to pair with Embiid this summer just seems incredibly obtuse to me. Yes you can say you have a "higher ceiling" but what does that actually matter if your chances of reaching that ceiling are low because your two stars are prone to sitting out? If you're going to "punt" on the regular season, then you need to be sure you have one of the most "talented" squads in the league. I still feel like even with a healthy PG, the Sixers are no more talented than the Celtics, Mavs, Knicks, Nuggets, Suns, Thunder and Bucks when fully healthy. And most of those teams have much better supporting casts to their stars. Not only that, but also PG maybe has 1-2 true good seasons left. You've made your competitive window incredibly tight when you had so much flexibility to explore other options this summer. I just think if I were a Sixers fan, I'd be disappointed that the grand plan of all of this maneuvering to get cap space was to sign 34 year old PG coming off another poor playoff performance and try to hit on mid level/minimum guys to hopefully fill out the roster.

He deserves credit for the Maxey draft pick and (so far) McCain. Oubre for the most part has been a revelation. Even though I think he ended up flubbing the Harden situation, that was a good return for Simmons given the nature of the trade. So it hasn't been all bad and Embiid definitely deserves some of the blame here. I just don't think his overall philosophy is a good one IMO and he doesn't seem to adapt well when things go slightly awry IMO.

[Sixers in 4]

this season isnt lost at all. they can easily be in the play for homecourt in march.

1 or 2 little 4-5 game streaks or one really good month and they are somewhere between 7 and 10.

the only thing that matters for the sixers is players being healthy and get some chemistry going betweend maxey, joel and PG. most teams will look vastly different after the all star break

Yeah just 1 or 2 little 4-5 game win steaks that the Sixers have shown no ability to put together this season...

They're cooked. Ben Simmons has been more reliable than Embiid this year.

Ben Simmons has scored 8 more pts than Embiid despite Embiid only playing 4 games.

[cgf]

Hey if he was my franchise player and he was facing unavoidable knee issues, I would give him every excuse to rest for the first half of every regular season too. He's won the regular season awards. If the team can win home court advantage with him resting 20-30% of the time, then it's a championship contender.

I have no problem with it. They will be winning a lot by mid season with Embiid, George and Maxey gaining some chemistry and momentum.

Will they? And even if they do, will it be enough to catch up with Boston, Cleveland, New York, Orlando, Milwaukee, or Miami? They're currently 5 games behind the Heat and 5.5 behind the Bucks...and that hole is still growing...

[Quattro]

2.5 games out of play in and 5.5 games out of 5th place with 64 games left to play. Barring season ending or long term injuries to one or more of their main starters, they won't be getting a high pick next year. Still confident they turn it around when they're finally healthy.

[Edrees]

Hey if he was my franchise player and he was facing unavoidable knee issues, I would give him every excuse to rest for the first half of every regular season too. He's won the regular season awards. If the team can win home court advantage with him resting 20-30% of the time, then it's a championship contender.

I have no problem with it. They will be winning a lot by mid season with Embiid, George and Maxey gaining some chemistry and momentum.

Will they? And even if they do, will it be enough to catch up with Boston, Cleveland, New York, Orlando, Milwaukee, or Miami? They're currently 5 games behind the Heat and 5.5 behind the Bucks...and that hole is still growing...

They dont need to catch up with any of these teams. All they need is 7th or 8th seed. If the standings are as they are now, if anything 8th seed is better than 7th since you get to face cleveland instead of boston so even 10th seed wouldn't be bad.

[The Servant]

Too big? Too big to what? Flaming out of the second round is always within reach for them.

If you're wondering if a team that started 4-14 has ever gone on to win a chip, the answer is no.