2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 3: Son of daughter of MVP thread)

[RB34]

How much of the gap between the Thunder and Nuggets is due to SGA being more valuable than Jokic this year vs SGA's supporting cast being better than Jokic's this year?

Don't matter, since nobody had SGA's supporting cast -largely absent Chet and Caruso- being better than DEN, much less better by margin.

It'd be like saying, since DEN's record is mediocre how much is Jokic's heightened numbers due to him really being "more valuable" this year vs padding his stats bc Murray is having a rough season?

If you look for a reason to discredit a guy, you can always find one.

Jokic is stat padding. Wild.

Everyone had OKC as the one seed this season because they’re stacked, young team with an MVP level talent and they’re hungry to make up for getting embarrassed in the playoffs.

[RRR3]

I think the funniest thing about this debate is people who say SGA can’t be as good as Jokic because Jokic is having an ATG peak as if SGA isn’t arguably playing the best any guard has played since Michael Jordan lol.

[Special_Puppy]

How much of the gap between the Thunder and Nuggets is due to SGA being more valuable than Jokic this year vs SGA's supporting cast being better than Jokic's this year?

Don't matter, since nobody had SGA's supporting cast -largely absent Chet and Caruso- being better than DEN, much less better by margin.

It'd be like saying, since DEN's record is mediocre how much is Jokic's heightened numbers due to him really being "more valuable" this year vs padding his stats bc Murray is having a rough season?

If you look for a reason to discredit a guy, you can always find one.

I don’t know why our pre-season expections about a teams supporting cast being incorrect means we can’t use it as an explanation for the gap in team results between two MVP candidates.

[Special_Puppy]

I think the funniest thing about this debate is people who say SGA can’t be as good as Jokic because Jokic is having an ATG peak as if SGA isn’t arguably playing the best any guard has played since Michael Jordan lol.

Do you think SGA is playing better than 2015-2017 Curry or 2018-2020 Harden?

[Black star]

SGA is playing without his 2nd or 3rd best teammate for most of the year in Chet, is the lone allstar on his team currently, just led a win against the best regular season team without a starting center, and people are still trying to ding him for having a supporting cast that's too strong. At this point I can't take anyone who brings that up seriously

[Special_Puppy]

SGA is playing without his 2nd or 3rd best teammate for most of the year in Chet, is the lone allstar on his team currently, just led a win against the best regular season team without a starting center, and people are still trying to ding him for having a supporting cast that's too strong. At this point I can't take anyone who brings that up seriously

How much of the gap between the Thunder and Nuggets is due to SGA being more valuable than Jokic this year vs SGA's supporting cast being better than Jokic's this year?

[Rdude22]

Obviously prime James Harden or prime Westbrook (or current Luka) can be statistical monsters on a team that's constructed to their heliocentric play style; i.e. giving them lob bigs and corner-men to spam 3s; resulting in 30-35/9/9 type "mvp" seasons,

but that's why wins are often factored, because if it doesn't amount to wins... we know those engineered statistical outputs could look different if said players were forced to change their role on a different team (i.e. Harden in Philly; Westbrook outside OKC). Would still be good numbers bc they are great players, but not necessarily those 2k sliders all the way up numbers.

That's why "MVP discourse" can get hella subjective bc it's never an even playing field across the board. SGA's teammates are "better" than Tatum's right now (this month). Too bad for JT. KAT plays off ball but Jokic has the offense ran through him, so Jokic will always get more assists than KAT. Too bad for KAT. Luka overdribbles to hunt assists while prime Curry plays off ball, so Luka will always have crazier triple dub numbers than prime Curry... but unless he gets more wins, he ain't gonna win an MVP like Curry did. It is what it is.

[Special_Puppy]

Obviously prime James Harden or prime Westbrook (or current Luka) can be statistical monsters on a team that's constructed to their heliocentric play style; i.e. giving them lob bigs and corner-men to spam 3s; resulting in 30-35/9/9 type "mvp" seasons,

but that's why wins are often factored, because if it doesn't amount to wins... we know those engineered statistical outputs could look different if said players were forced to change their role on a different team (i.e. Harden in Philly; Westbrook outside OKC). Would still be good numbers bc they are great players, but not necessarily those 2k sliders all the way up numbers.

That's why "MVP discourse" can get hella subjective bc it's never an even playing field across the board. SGA's teammates are "better" than Tatum's right now (this month). Too bad for JT. KAT plays off ball but Jokic has the offense ran through him, so Jokic will always get more assists than KAT. Too bad for KAT. Luka overdribbles to hunt assists while prime Curry plays off ball, so Luka will always have crazier triple dub numbers than prime Curry... but unless he gets more wins, he ain't gonna win an MVP like Curry did. It is what it is.

We have much better tools to find out a players “true” value now besides just looking at wins and counting stats

[AleksandarN]

SGA is in the lead right now. We will see how the rest of the season turns out

[Jaqua92]

Yeah we need the playoffs to start asap.

Thunder are better than Denver because SGA is a better more valuable player? OKC fans need to be humbled

[OkcSinceSGA]

Yeah we need the playoffs to start asap

Sheesh, Tatum with only 1 vote from you. Be safe out there buddy :p

[Jaqua92]

Yeah we need the playoffs to start asap

Sheesh, Tatum with only 1 vote from you. Be safe out there buddy :p

I voted for Jokic.

[Stickmann]

Shai and jokic are far and away the leaders but there’s a chance wemby fully ascends to best player in the league in the second half of the season. MVP is too far though.

[Jaqua92]

SGA is playing without his 2nd or 3rd best teammate for most of the year in Chet, is the lone allstar on his team currently, just led a win against the best regular season team without a starting center, and people are still trying to ding him for having a supporting cast that's too strong. At this point I can't take anyone who brings that up seriously

What often happens in these seasons when one team's identity is built on defense, they typically just play harder on defense than most other teams.

The narrarive was that OKC is stacked. And one player isn't responsible for a 70 win pace. OKC has elite defensive personnel and a system and higher energy defenders playing with playoff defensive intensity when other teams simply aren't. Water will find its level. You guys can enjoy the flexing though.

[Stickmann]

SGA is playing without his 2nd or 3rd best teammate for most of the year in Chet, is the lone allstar on his team currently, just led a win against the best regular season team without a starting center, and people are still trying to ding him for having a supporting cast that's too strong. At this point I can't take anyone who brings that up seriously

What often happens in these seasons when one team's identity is built on defense, they typically just play harder on defense than most other teams.

The narrarive was that OKC is stacked. And one player isn't responsible for a 70 win pace. OKC has elite defensive personnel and a system and higher energy defenders playing with playoff defensive intensity when other teams simply aren't. Water will find its level. You guys can enjoy the flexing though.

Correct, but SGA offense is what elevates this team from simply frisky to 70 win pace. Replace him with some like Tatum or booker or Mitchell, who are great on offense in their own right, and the thunder are closer to Memphis

[Special_Puppy]

Shai and jokic are far and away the leaders but there’s a chance wemby fully ascends to best player in the league in the second half of the season. MVP is too far though.

A 3rd place finish for Wemby is easy to see especially if the other candidates aren’t THAT impressive

[AleksandarN]

Shai and jokic are far and away the leaders but there’s a chance wemby fully ascends to best player in the league in the second half of the season. MVP is too far though.

A 3rd place finish for Wemby is easy to see especially if the other candidates aren’t THAT impressive

He is not better than Giannis no way he gets past Giannis

[Special_Puppy]

Shai and jokic are far and away the leaders but there’s a chance wemby fully ascends to best player in the league in the second half of the season. MVP is too far though.

A 3rd place finish for Wemby is easy to see especially if the other candidates aren’t THAT impressive

He is not better than Giannis no way he gets past Giannis

If the Bucks finish with like 45 wins then yeah Wemby could jump Giannis

[Special_Puppy]

You guys aren’t factoring in the Jokic mid-season trade to Boston where they win 68 games afterwards

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

A 3rd place finish for Wemby is easy to see especially if the other candidates aren’t THAT impressive

He is not better than Giannis no way he gets past Giannis

If the Bucks finish with like 45 wins then yeah Wemby could jump Giannis

how many wins do the spurs have in this fantasy?
they went head to head last week and Giannis destroyed him. like things can change and he gets it together with a monster second half of the year but there are like 6 guys in that category after Giannis, SGA and jokic.