Which Players Would You NOT Trade for Luka?

[Tottery]

Wemby and Jokic.

[Pantsman]

Possibly Mobley based on age (23) being locked up for 5 years and his continued growth every year.

[runtmc]

Giannis, SGA, Jokic, Wemby I think are obvious ones.

But is the question asking which current teams would/wouldnt make the trade? Are we doing this in a vacuum or are we considering salary, roster construction/fit, future projections etc?

Because I dont see why BOS would ever trade Tatum for Doncic for example, even if Doncic is probably a slightly better player today -- in a vacuum, as a hypothetical for who you're starting a team with? Maybe. Going forward, Tatum probably is better/more valuable over the next 10 years, while fit/roster construction wise Tatum fits their roster far better. He's far less of a risk.

On that note, I dont think if Im HOU Id ever consider trading Thompson or Sengun for Luka. Both are younger, contracts are way, way better, better roster fits, both still improving, they're less of a risk going forward, etc.

I dont think if Im OKC I would trade Chet for Luka.

Basically I think there's quite a few players out there that it just doesnt make sense. Luka has an enormous contract, there's no guarantee he'd resign with a lot of these teams, many teams would have to basically redo their entire rosters to make Luka fit, and given Luka's issues he's a big risk. Unless you're also trading a player that has a huge contract, is also a risk, and/or is significantly less talented, alot of trades just wouldnt make sense.

[zimpy27]

Re Tatum vs Luka: I've said this before and got eggs thrown at me, but the half of people who would apparently trade Tatum for Luka (even now??) are really.... well.. I've never gotten it and still don't get it.

First off, we all know defense is fully 50% of the game, but then when we start ranking players and assigning value it somehow only counts for like 5% of the discussion. Why? If Luka is the marginally better offensive player, and Tatum is the significantly better defensive player, doesn't that make Tatum the marginally better overall player? The math makes sense to me but I typically have a hard time getting anyone to agree lol. Drives me kinda nuts.

Then you add the fact that JT is an ultra professional, in shape, gives it all on the court every night, and has already won a title, and I can't wrap my head around thinking you'd trade Tatum for Luka. I decidedly would not.

I would add that I don't think a contender like Cetlics, Cavs or OKC would want to bring in a heliocentric player like Luka to destabilise their team.

Defense is morale energy taxing and offense is morale energy giving. You can't have players taking up all the offensive possessions and expect the rest of the team to have the morale to give it all on defense. It's rare to find players that could do that.

[web123888]

Jokic.


Questionable - Giannis, SGA, Wembanyama

[ryguy613]

Guys maybe we should adjust our idea of Luka's value considering his team just went out of their way to get rid of him?

The only NBA team he's played for deemed him a poorly conditioned, non-competetive, unprofessional defensive liability and approached another team about taking him so they wouldn't have to pay him a big contract. I can't really see this happening with other current top 10 players.

Just thinking out loud here.

...he literally led an incredibly mediocre team to the finals LAST SEASON. He led an even worse team than that to a conference finals 2 years before that. The idea that someone who is "non-competitive" and "unprofessional" could or would do that is laughable. I dont know why so many people are trying so hard to convince themselves of a self fulfilling prophecy... this idea that "the mere fact that Dallas didnt get a better return for Luka is evidence that Luka was not worth a better return" is just nonsensical circular logic. Its like saying "well I guess the fact that Minnesota traded 4 first round draft picks for Rudy Gobert must mean he's like the best player in league".

Thats not how things work. We literally have several years worth of data to determine whether or not Luka has immense value... i assure you... your eyes arent lying. Dont make it everyone elses problem that the Mavs didnt make the smartest trade here.

[ryguy613]

Denver would be out of their minds trading Jokic. He’s so much better than Luka, and centers tend to age better than guards - especially guards that weigh 270 pounds.

Shai is a lot better than Luka, too.

When it's all said and done I think Luka ends up ahead of Jokic all-time, and with that in mind, it makes sense to make that trade especially since he's much younger.

The team that drafted Luka just announced to the entire world that he ain’t that guy. You don’t find that a little bit concerning?

The Red Sox traded Babe Ruth to the Yankees. The freaking Bucks traded freaking Kareem...Abdul... Jabbar... in the middle of his dominance. There are plenty of examples of teams mistakenly trading a player away thinking he is "not that guy".

[ryguy613]

Re Tatum vs Luka: I've said this before and got eggs thrown at me, but the half of people who would apparently trade Tatum for Luka (even now??) are really.... well.. I've never gotten it and still don't get it.

First off, we all know defense is fully 50% of the game, but then when we start ranking players and assigning value it somehow only counts for like 5% of the discussion. Why? If Luka is the marginally better offensive player, and Tatum is the significantly better defensive player, doesn't that make Tatum the marginally better overall player? The math makes sense to me but I typically have a hard time getting anyone to agree lol. Drives me kinda nuts.

Then you add the fact that JT is an ultra professional, in shape, gives it all on the court every night, and has already won a title, and I can't wrap my head around thinking you'd trade Tatum for Luka. I decidedly would not.

I would add that I don't think a contender like Cetlics, Cavs or OKC would want to bring in a heliocentric player like Luka to destabilise their team.

Defense is morale energy taxing and offense is morale energy giving. You can't have players taking up all the offensive possessions and expect the rest of the team to have the morale to give it all on defense. It's rare to find players that could do that.

it really just depends on what theyd be asked to give up. If you believe you're well on your way to a championship, theres no reason to trade away your best players, even if its possible youd be getting better players. But thats not a Luka thing, that would be the case for just about any superstar being traded, and any title contender. If you're a true contender, chances are youre pretty happy with the cards youve already been dealt. It would be an immense risk, and almost certainly a pointless one, to swap pieces

[ryguy613]

Thats why i say no to Luka in Celtics, rather have a top 5-6 player that has played more games in 8 seasons than most superstars ever and he isn't seen as flawed defender whose character was judged negatively.

This trade says a lot of bad things about Luka, you don't dump a top 5 player who is young if you think there is nothing wrong with his discipline and conditioning.....

Or the Mavericks are just a terrible organization. This trade is certainly not the first mark of their incompetence.

Nah I don't believe in conspiracies, I believe in my eyes of the lazy Luka of 7 years whose bad discipline and conditioning issues might ruin his his potential as an all-time great talent. That might be enough to become a Harden type star in LA but maybe not more like it is expected of him.

There is a reason Jokic changed his body to run more than everyone and Giannis, Kawhi worked themselves to death to reach their full potential.

What do you mean by "conspiracy"? Nobody brought up and kind of conspiracy. that wouldnt apply here in any way.

........also, for like the millionth time the guy led his team to the finals LAST SEASON! Are you people on crack?

[KG Leonard]

Or the Mavericks are just a terrible organization. This trade is certainly not the first mark of their incompetence.

Nah I don't believe in conspiracies, I believe in my eyes of the lazy Luka of 7 years whose bad discipline and conditioning issues might ruin his his potential as an all-time great talent. That might be enough to become a Harden type star in LA but maybe not more like it is expected of him.

There is a reason Jokic changed his body to run more than everyone and Giannis, Kawhi worked themselves to death to reach their full potential.

What do you mean by "conspiracy"? Nobody brought up and kind of conspiracy. that wouldnt apply here in any way.

........also, for like the millionth time the guy led his team to the finals LAST SEASON! Are you people on crack?

Not an actual conspiracy in the post I replied to, more like talking about incompetent Mavs front office like the whole NBA media and many fans didn't get sick of the lack of conditioning. The guy lost his cool and couldn't run back the court because he was tired in the first quarter in the actual NBA finals.

Sure Mavs GM is weird for helping his friend in Lakers FO with the cheap cost of the trade but i can totally understand why you get tired of Luka's bs discipline, body issues.

Are you on crack? This is a business with 7 years of record of problems with Luka, one trip to the NBA finals doesn't make him untouchable. You have to show there is a future and not breaking down like Embiid.

[ryguy613]

Nah I don't believe in conspiracies, I believe in my eyes of the lazy Luka of 7 years whose bad discipline and conditioning issues might ruin his his potential as an all-time great talent. That might be enough to become a Harden type star in LA but maybe not more like it is expected of him.

There is a reason Jokic changed his body to run more than everyone and Giannis, Kawhi worked themselves to death to reach their full potential.

What do you mean by "conspiracy"? Nobody brought up and kind of conspiracy. that wouldnt apply here in any way.

........also, for like the millionth time the guy led his team to the finals LAST SEASON! Are you people on crack?

Not an actual conspiracy in the post I replied to, more like talking about incompetent Mavs front office like the whole NBA media and many fans didn't get sick of the lack of conditioning. The guy lost his cool and couldn't run back the court because he was tired in the first quarter in the actual NBA finals.

Sure Mavs GM is weird for helping his friend in Lakers FO with the cheap cost of the trade but i can totally understand why you get tired of Luka's bs discipline, body issues.

Are you on crack? This is a business with 7 years of record of problems with Luka, one trip to the NBA finals doesn't make him untouchable. You have to show there is a future and not breaking down like Embiid.

I never said hes untouchable. i said its insane to state that we've witnessed 7 years of laziness from a player who literally led his team to the finals months ago. thats an absurd thing to say. the revisionist history thats happening in real time is really something.

Luka is not perfect by any means. he certainly is not doing himself any favors by not being in peak condition all the time. That doesnt make him lazy. You know how many great players never get an opportunity to lead their team to the finals?

[KG Leonard]

What do you mean by "conspiracy"? Nobody brought up and kind of conspiracy. that wouldnt apply here in any way.

........also, for like the millionth time the guy led his team to the finals LAST SEASON! Are you people on crack?

Not an actual conspiracy in the post I replied to, more like talking about incompetent Mavs front office like the whole NBA media and many fans didn't get sick of the lack of conditioning. The guy lost his cool and couldn't run back the court because he was tired in the first quarter in the actual NBA finals.

Sure Mavs GM is weird for helping his friend in Lakers FO with the cheap cost of the trade but i can totally understand why you get tired of Luka's bs discipline, body issues.

Are you on crack? This is a business with 7 years of record of problems with Luka, one trip to the NBA finals doesn't make him untouchable. You have to show there is a future and not breaking down like Embiid.

Luka is not perfect by any means. he certainly is not doing himself any favors by not being in peak condition all the time. That doesnt make him lazy. You know how many great players never get an opportunity to lead their team to the finals?

This is the laziness we are talking about, my problem is that you can't sustain the way he played in the playoffs. Sure he was really great carrying his team but his body broke down after every game because of his bad conditioning.
Many teams have had luck of the draw in a single playoffs run. Doesn't mean they can do it again. I don't have problem with his bad defending but I agree with Dallas getting rid of potential Embiid injuries situation. Many players of his talent have loss their potential before for the same reasons.

[TheGOATRises007]

Jokic and Wemby for certain.

SGA and Giannis are arguable.

[FarBeyondDriven]

Guys maybe we should adjust our idea of Luka's value considering his team just went out of their way to get rid of him?

The only NBA team he's played for deemed him a poorly conditioned, non-competetive, unprofessional defensive liability and approached another team about taking him so they wouldn't have to pay him a big contract. I can't really see this happening with other current top 10 players.

Just thinking out loud here.

...he literally led an incredibly mediocre team to the finals LAST SEASON. He led an even worse team than that to a conference finals 2 years before that. The idea that someone who is "non-competitive" and "unprofessional" could or would do that is laughable. I dont know why so many people are trying so hard to convince themselves of a self fulfilling prophecy... this idea that "the mere fact that Dallas didnt get a better return for Luka is evidence that Luka was not worth a better return" is just nonsensical circular logic. Its like saying "well I guess the fact that Minnesota traded 4 first round draft picks for Rudy Gobert must mean he's like the best player in league".

Thats not how things work. We literally have several years worth of data to determine whether or not Luka has immense value... i assure you... your eyes arent lying. Dont make it everyone elses problem that the Mavs didnt make the smartest trade here.

there have been a lot of very weak teams that made it to the Finals due to injuries and luck. It's not some huge accomplishment. Supposedly he had no help then yet everyone had them as favorites this year with the same talent level? Make it make sense.

[2020]

Two guys we were All-NBA players have never been traded for each other mid season before, that's how unprecedented this was lol

This didn't happen mid-season but KAT for Julius Randle. Both were multiple all NBA

[og15]

Two guys we were All-NBA players have never been traded for each other mid season before, that's how unprecedented this was lol

This didn't happen mid-season but KAT for Julius Randle. Both were multiple all NBA

Yup, while the chain was able guys who were All-NBA in the previous season, those guys were close enough, but even then, in season never happened before. First time for everything I guess.

[LakersLegacy]

Lakers trade Doncic + Connect + Morris for Giannis

[sisibilio]

If i'm certain he'll sign the 5 year extension, anyone but Wemby.

[ryguy613]

Guys maybe we should adjust our idea of Luka's value considering his team just went out of their way to get rid of him?

The only NBA team he's played for deemed him a poorly conditioned, non-competetive, unprofessional defensive liability and approached another team about taking him so they wouldn't have to pay him a big contract. I can't really see this happening with other current top 10 players.

Just thinking out loud here.

...he literally led an incredibly mediocre team to the finals LAST SEASON. He led an even worse team than that to a conference finals 2 years before that. The idea that someone who is "non-competitive" and "unprofessional" could or would do that is laughable. I dont know why so many people are trying so hard to convince themselves of a self fulfilling prophecy... this idea that "the mere fact that Dallas didnt get a better return for Luka is evidence that Luka was not worth a better return" is just nonsensical circular logic. Its like saying "well I guess the fact that Minnesota traded 4 first round draft picks for Rudy Gobert must mean he's like the best player in league".

Thats not how things work. We literally have several years worth of data to determine whether or not Luka has immense value... i assure you... your eyes arent lying. Dont make it everyone elses problem that the Mavs didnt make the smartest trade here.

there have been a lot of very weak teams that made it to the Finals due to injuries and luck. It's not some huge accomplishment. Supposedly he had no help then yet everyone had them as favorites this year with the same talent level? Make it make sense.

The Mavs got lucky last year beating the 1 seed OKC Thunder and the 3 seed Wolves (who had just beaten the Nuggets btw)? Nope. That was not luck or injury that led to the Mavs winning in an insanely talented west... it was just Luka. It was an accomplishment, even if you wanna downplay it. 2 year prior he also led his team past the favored Suns... annihilating them in game 7 in their own house to reach the WCF. Acting like all of that means nothing is just dumb. sorry.

[ryguy613]

Not an actual conspiracy in the post I replied to, more like talking about incompetent Mavs front office like the whole NBA media and many fans didn't get sick of the lack of conditioning. The guy lost his cool and couldn't run back the court because he was tired in the first quarter in the actual NBA finals.

Sure Mavs GM is weird for helping his friend in Lakers FO with the cheap cost of the trade but i can totally understand why you get tired of Luka's bs discipline, body issues.

Are you on crack? This is a business with 7 years of record of problems with Luka, one trip to the NBA finals doesn't make him untouchable. You have to show there is a future and not breaking down like Embiid.

Luka is not perfect by any means. he certainly is not doing himself any favors by not being in peak condition all the time. That doesnt make him lazy. You know how many great players never get an opportunity to lead their team to the finals?

This is the laziness we are talking about, my problem is that you can't sustain the way he played in the playoffs. Sure he was really great carrying his team but his body broke down after every game because of his bad conditioning.
Many teams have had luck of the draw in a single playoffs run. Doesn't mean they can do it again. I don't have problem with his bad defending but I agree with Dallas getting rid of potential Embiid injuries situation. Many players of his talent have loss their potential before for the same reasons.

Talk about lazy... the argument that Luka is a "potential Embiid" basically requires you to have done no research. Embiid is not a good comp for Luka at all. Embiid literally didnt even play a game of basketball until his second season in the league. Thats how injury prone the man has been. It really hasnt been a conditioning issue. Its just his body. The guy has fairly typical big man issues. Not uncommon for guys that size to fall apart somewhat quickly. Luka has not missed a single season. No question he gets injured, and no question much of that is due to his conditioning... but thats not even remotely close to Embiid, or Kawhi for that matter.