Lets admit the obvious: SGA is a better player than Luka

[bisme37]

Just watch how Minny was able to attack the Lakers defense by going at Luka and if you still pick Luka over Shai then you are just a crazy fanboy to me.

If you want to argue about Luka being a better offensive player than Shai it's fine but as an overall player it's not close.

Shai plays for my team and I'm grateful for that but I have never been a huge fan/believer in him like some others thunder fans here but then I watch his evolution and mostly the advanced stats and reality showed me how impactul he's. I have been so wrong about Shai that I'm not surprised that some NBA fans that aren't paying more attention to OKC and advanced stats are missing it too.

I can relate to the frustration. The Luka threads always feel like bizzaro world to me.

[Mavrelous]

Just watch how Minny was able to attack the Lakers defense by going at Luka and if you still pick Luka over Shai then you are just a crazy fanboy to me.

If you want to argue about Luka being a better offensive player than Shai it's fine but as an overall player it's not close.

Shai plays for my team and I'm grateful for that but I have never been a huge fan/believer in him like some others thunder fans here but then I watch his evolution and mostly the advanced stats and reality showed me how impactul he's. I have been so wrong about Shai that I'm not surprised that some NBA fans that aren't paying more attention to OKC and advanced stats are missing it too.

"it's not close" is beyond asinine, and ironically, exactly what a crazy fanboy would say...
How dumb of SGA and JDub not finding out the brilliant strategy of going at Luka in last year semi finals, a good player would've found it

[NBA_is_cringe]

Just watch how Minny was able to attack the Lakers defense by going at Luka and if you still pick Luka over Shai then you are just a crazy fanboy to me.

If you want to argue about Luka being a better offensive player than Shai it's fine but as an overall player it's not close.

Shai plays for my team and I'm grateful for that but I have never been a huge fan/believer in him like some others thunder fans here but then I watch his evolution and mostly the advanced stats and reality showed me how impactul he's. I have been so wrong about Shai that I'm not surprised that some NBA fans that aren't paying more attention to OKC and advanced stats are missing it too.

I can relate to the frustration. The Luka threads always feel like bizzaro world to me.

So you locked "Who is more overrated: SGA or Tatum?" for being a "low-effort hater thread" but this thread is allowed to exist? Why not allow people to disagree with your personal opinion?

[bisme37]

Just watch how Minny was able to attack the Lakers defense by going at Luka and if you still pick Luka over Shai then you are just a crazy fanboy to me.

If you want to argue about Luka being a better offensive player than Shai it's fine but as an overall player it's not close.

Shai plays for my team and I'm grateful for that but I have never been a huge fan/believer in him like some others thunder fans here but then I watch his evolution and mostly the advanced stats and reality showed me how impactul he's. I have been so wrong about Shai that I'm not surprised that some NBA fans that aren't paying more attention to OKC and advanced stats are missing it too.

I can relate to the frustration. The Luka threads always feel like bizzaro world to me.

So you locked "Who is more overrated: SGA or Tatum?" for being a "low-effort hater thread" but this thread is allowed to exist? Why not allow people to disagree with your personal opinion?

I'd have locked this too but it already had 5+ pages of discussion when I woke up. And there are no insults in the thread title, so I do think the tone is a bit different.

If you guys want this locked it's cool with me. I'm not a fan of the thread or this thing where people think they have to tear one guy down to raise the other guy up.

[Dadouv47]

Just watch how Minny was able to attack the Lakers defense by going at Luka and if you still pick Luka over Shai then you are just a crazy fanboy to me.

If you want to argue about Luka being a better offensive player than Shai it's fine but as an overall player it's not close.

Shai plays for my team and I'm grateful for that but I have never been a huge fan/believer in him like some others thunder fans here but then I watch his evolution and mostly the advanced stats and reality showed me how impactul he's. I have been so wrong about Shai that I'm not surprised that some NBA fans that aren't paying more attention to OKC and advanced stats are missing it too.

"it's not close" is beyond asinine, and ironically, exactly what a crazy fanboy would say...
How dumb of SGA and JDub not finding out the brilliant strategy of going at Luka in last year semi finals, a good player would've found it

well Shai had the best series of his career against the Mavs last season. He was WAY more efficient than in any series so far this season.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

SGA isn't a sieve on defense, Luka is basically just Harden, doesn't take his body seriously and doesn't try on defense. Burek is to Luka what the strip club was to Harden.

[Mavrelous]

Just watch how Minny was able to attack the Lakers defense by going at Luka and if you still pick Luka over Shai then you are just a crazy fanboy to me.

If you want to argue about Luka being a better offensive player than Shai it's fine but as an overall player it's not close.

Shai plays for my team and I'm grateful for that but I have never been a huge fan/believer in him like some others thunder fans here but then I watch his evolution and mostly the advanced stats and reality showed me how impactul he's. I have been so wrong about Shai that I'm not surprised that some NBA fans that aren't paying more attention to OKC and advanced stats are missing it too.

"it's not close" is beyond asinine, and ironically, exactly what a crazy fanboy would say...
How dumb of SGA and JDub not finding out the brilliant strategy of going at Luka in last year semi finals, a good player would've found it

well Shai had the best series of his career against the Mavs last season. He was WAY more efficient than in any series so far this season.

Shame, Maybe if he defended better that effecincy would've resulted in advancing, PJ Washington was his man...

[DonaldSanders]

I'd have locked this too but it already had 5+ pages of discussion when I woke up. And there are no insults in the thread title, so I do think the tone is a bit different.

If you guys want this locked it's cool with me. I'm not a fan of the thread or this thing where people think they have to tear one guy down to raise the other guy up.

To me there is a big difference between asking who is the better player vs. who is more overrated. Most of the 'overrated' threads are veiled hate/bait threads that don't product anything good. It's productive to ask who is better.

While I think it's reasonable to wonder who is more overrated, for whatever reason the threads rarely are productive and usually just turn into some hate fest. We have enough of that. So framing matters a lot, I'd rather threads ask who is better.

[Dadouv47]

"it's not close" is beyond asinine, and ironically, exactly what a crazy fanboy would say...
How dumb of SGA and JDub not finding out the brilliant strategy of going at Luka in last year semi finals, a good player would've found it

well Shai had the best series of his career against the Mavs last season. He was WAY more efficient than in any series so far this season.

Shame, Maybe if he defended better that effecincy would've resulted in advancing, PJ Washington was his man...

I imagine you watched enough games to understand that OKC is packing the paint and letting opponents role players take wide open 3's. I have some concerns about this strategy and it might be dangerous but it's not about Shai, Dort, Caruso or whatever narrative you might want to invent.

[bisme37]

I'd have locked this too but it already had 5+ pages of discussion when I woke up. And there are no insults in the thread title, so I do think the tone is a bit different.

If you guys want this locked it's cool with me. I'm not a fan of the thread or this thing where people think they have to tear one guy down to raise the other guy up.

To me there is a big difference between asking who is the better player vs. who is more overrated. Most of the 'overrated' threads are veiled hate/bait threads that don't product anything good. It's productive to ask who is better.

While I think it's reasonable to wonder who is more overrated, for whatever reason the threads rarely are productive and usually just turn into some hate fest. We have enough of that. So framing matters a lot, I'd rather threads ask who is better.

Thanks homie. I know I'm not always going to get it right and I'm open to feedback. A big part of modding is making judgment calls and not everyone is going to agree with my judgment every time. But I spend half my life babysitting this joint for no actual compensation and I promise I'm doing my best over here. Unfortunately I don't get every RGM post uploaded to my cerebral cortex while I sleep, so at times I def feel like I'm swimming upstream.

[OldSchoolNoBull]

It's probably true that Luka wouldn't be as good of a fit on the Thunder as SGA.

But it's also true - IMO - that if you replaced Luka with SGA on last season's Mavs, SGA would not have been able to carry that team to the Finals like Luka did.

I think Luka's ceiling for overall impact is higher, but I think his not taking care of his body is holding him back a bit.

[Mavrelous]

well Shai had the best series of his career against the Mavs last season. He was WAY more efficient than in any series so far this season.

Shame, Maybe if he defended better that effecincy would've resulted in advancing, PJ Washington was his man...

I imagine you watched enough games to understand that OKC is packing the paint and letting opponents role players take wide open 3's. I have some concerns about this strategy and it might be dangerous but it's not about Shai, Dort, Caruso or whatever narrative you might want to invent.

I did watch enough, and I imagine you did the same, when Luka was on a team with POA defender, wing defender and rim protector, he managed to defend just fine, when he found himself on a team that's 5 deep, no POA defender, and no rim protector, defending was problematic.
I think context matters, and I would examine it before throwing hot takes and call people crazy fanboys, one maybe inventing bad narratives...

[Chokic]

I've always rated Luka higher than SGA. But this year is the first season where I doubt that stance and can concede SGA has surpassed him. Luka already having weight/conditioning issues in his mid 20s/prime years is a bad sign for his career trajectory.

[ThunderBorn]

One player has the mamba mentality, one player doesn’t.

[Yuri36]

Shai-Luka debate is interesting. By every metric, Shai has had a better seasons than Luka's best, he'll be more individually accomplished soon with an MVP and if they win the title, as huge favs right now, he'll also have more team accomplishments. And yet a non insigniciant amount of people still cant put Shai over Luka, and its because they dont value defense at all. Luka is the better offensive player, but there's clearly a much bigger defensive gap between them than offense. All due respect to Luka, but he's not a Steph or Jokic level offensive player where you can more easily brush away their defensive issues

By the metrics YOU chose, yeah probably

No. By all of them. Whether its player effeciency rating and box score metrics (BPM), advanced impact metrics or basic on/off, Shai provides more value for his team. And its, again, because fans have no respect for defense. I dont even think Luka's biggest fans can say that the offensive gap between them is greater than the defensive (and i do think Luka's a better offensive player)

So thanks for confirming my points.
But just in case, have you considered the most basic and concrete metrics everyone know which are ppg, rpg and apg?

[ball_takes23]

It's probably true that Luka wouldn't be as good of a fit on the Thunder as SGA.

But it's also true - IMO - that if you replaced Luka with SGA on last season's Mavs, SGA would not have been able to carry that team to the Finals like Luka did.

I think Luka's ceiling for overall impact is higher, but I think his not taking care of his body is holding him back a bit.

the Thunder would be a perfect fit for Luka. He'd have the two most important things he needs which are lob threats and defense

[Yuri36]

I think people have a tendency to overrate Luka a little bit because of how quickly he became really good and how early his success has been.

People mistakenly view Luka as a LeBron or Jordan type player, he's not actually on that level. He's much closer to a KD or even James Harden trajectory than he is a LeBron or Jordan tier.

SGA reminds me more of like Kawhi or even Curry in some ways, just came out of nowhere and started wrecking the league. Now he's in his prime and the peak is obviously bigger than Luka so far, despite Luka's early success.

Imo if the Thunder win this year, we are going to see an OKC dynasty, it's easier to do it multiple times after you break the first wall imo, and the Thunder are built to be a dynasty when you look at the assets and ages of their team.

No they aren't and a big part of it is also how clutch and killer he's been in very high pressured situations from his rookie year (the incredible buzzer beater against the Blazers, the one against a stacked Clippers team in the Bubble and being injured).

In fact, he's already showed a clutchness and a not afraid attitude to take the last shot that even a guy like LeBron hasn't showed that much and most certainly not by Luka's current age.

And so has Damian Lillard, which is another person that is worth comparing Luka to in terms of career. Clutchness is just one factor, and the block in game 7 vs. the 73-9 Warriors is certainly a moment that Luka is not even close to

I knew someone would answer that but the thing is Lillard has never ever achieved the peak level Luka has reached so he has the clutchness factor at an all time great level for sure but not the rest whereas Luka's got both and more
Hell, i'm not even sure Dame ever made an All NBA first team, something Luka already did 5 times at only 26

[UglyBugBall]

Luka peaks as high as prime Lebron, a top 5 player of all time. Unfortunately, he rarely hits that peak now due to conditioning issues. SGA peaks as a great player of this current era, but not the top 5 ATG Luka looks like when he's on.

[Yuri36]

One player has the mamba mentality, one player doesn’t.

The sad thing is that player has the mamba mentality only on a basketball court, not off court and on gym.

[kazyv]

Just watch how Minny was able to attack the Lakers defense by going at Luka and if you still pick Luka over Shai then you are just a crazy fanboy to me.

If you want to argue about Luka being a better offensive player than Shai it's fine but as an overall player it's not close.

Shai plays for my team and I'm grateful for that but I have never been a huge fan/believer in him like some others thunder fans here but then I watch his evolution and mostly the advanced stats and reality showed me how impactul he's. I have been so wrong about Shai that I'm not surprised that some NBA fans that aren't paying more attention to OKC and advanced stats are missing it too.

I've certainly criticized Luka before, but how is that a fair comparison exactly? The Lakers are a meme team. At least compare Wolves vs Luka and Dallas last year