John Stockton vs Chris Paul all time who you voting?

[MavsDirk41]

Stockton was a total beast in the 97 playoffs and was Utah's best player for their near-title run, but his matchups were pretty weak (Darrick Martin, Nick Van Exel, Matt Maloney, old Ron Harper). In tougher matchups, like against Porter or against Payton in the 96 WCF, Stockton laid some eggs.

Not to mention Gary Payton has stated that John Stockton was the hardest player for him to guard.

In the 1996 WCF, Stockton averaged 9.9/7.6 on 40/20/58 shooting splits (14/11 in the regular season). So not that hard to guard apparently.

Stockton had 22/8/7 with 4 steals in game 7 of that series. He showed up when it mattered. Cant just judge Stockton on numbers anyways, his impact was more about how the other 4 players on the court were playing. I think Malone was more replaceable on those Utah teams than Stockton.

[dballislife]

cp3 had many prime years of 26, 27, and 28 PER...stocktons best years were in the 21-23 range

[f4p]

Not to mention Gary Payton has stated that John Stockton was the hardest player for him to guard.

In the 1996 WCF, Stockton averaged 9.9/7.6 on 40/20/58 shooting splits (14/11 in the regular season). So not that hard to guard apparently.

Stockton had 22/8/7 with 4 steals in game 7 of that series. He showed up when it mattered.

Lol. Since Utah lost the series, I'm going to say the whole series mattered. He scored 33 points in the first 5 games.

Cant just judge Stockton on numbers anyways, his impact was more about how the other 4 players on the court were playing. I think Malone was more replaceable on those Utah teams than Stockton.

I love the can't judge on numbers arguments. Sure you can. Stockton wasn't some magical guy who never put up numbers. He was at 14/11 in the regular season and dropped to 10/7. What, did he become an all-intangibles guy specifically for this series? Were the 40/20/58 shooting splits secretly impactful beyond the numbers or would Occam's razor just say it was a terrible shooting series.

As for all of the "who are you to question Payton?" responses. Uhh, you're going to have to have some weird opinions and rankings going forward if you are basing everything on things athletes say in interviews, either about others or even about themselves. They misremember and say crazy things or are just praising whoever the host brought up. Or they had an early experience where someone lit them up (Stockton did have 14/14 against Payton in Payton's 2nd year) and remember that beyond what it really meant.

Besides, it mostly doesn't matter what Payton says. The claim was basically that Stockton must be amazing because even gary Payton couldn't guard him. Except he completely shut Stockton down in that series so obviously he could guard him in the prime of Payton's career.

[MrBigShot]

Peak CP3 was simply a better basketball player.

[Bergmaniac]

Some wild takes in this thread, as it happens eveyr single time a 90s star is compared to a current one and nostalgia goggles come into play. IMO peak CP3 was clearly better and while I see the case for Stockton due to durability, the "It's not close" takes in his favour are pretty absurd. "But CP3 was outplayed by other PGs a lot in the playoffs". Debatable, but if we are just looking at box score and whether their team won the series, same can be said about Stockton for large portions of his career. And his most successful seasons in the playoffs in the late 90s came when the competiton at PG in the West was quite weak, certainly way weaker than what Paul had to deal with pretty much the whole of his career.

[bonita_the_frog]

John Stockton is the coolest guy and player in the whole world, or equal with Chris Russo and Michael Jordan.
No surprise Stockton was the only person Jordan spoke to directly during his HOF speech (when making fun of Byron Russell).

[dballislife]

cp3 biggest knock is that he couldn't win...he never made a final 4 i dont think, let alone making it to finals and winning and being champs, he was always a final 8 team kinda guy which isnt good enough...but theres no shame in cp3 always losing to likes of timmy, shaq, kobe, kg, lebron, durant

[SlimShady83]

cp3 biggest knock is that he couldn't win...he never made a final 4 i dont think, let alone making it to finals and winning and being champs, he was always a final 8 team kinda guy which isnt good enough...but theres no shame in cp3 always losing to likes of timmy, shaq, kobe, kg, lebron, durant

[iggymcfrack]

This seems like one you should be able to break into skills pretty easily:

Passing: both guys elite all-timers, maybe slight edge Stockton

Defense: both guys elite all-timers, maybe slight edge Paul

Scoring: Huge edge Paul

Yeah, Stockton was a lot healthier and more durable, but I’m not taking than over just a huge skill edge like that.

[iggymcfrack]

cp3 biggest knock is that he couldn't win...he never made a final 4 i dont think, let alone making it to finals and winning and being champs, he was always a final 8 team kinda guy which isnt good enough...but theres no shame in cp3 always losing to likes of timmy, shaq, kobe, kg, lebron, durant

He was up 2-0 in the Finals as the clearcut best player on his team at the age of 36. Then Giannis went nuts. He got just as close as Stockton.

[Jagic Mohnson]

I say Cp3. He hasn't won a ring but every team he went to, the team got better. I think Chris offensive game is so good, he is good enough to to be Batman. Stockton lacked dynamic offensive skills like a Nash, Chris Paul, or Curry, which is why I don't think he could lead a team to a ring even though he went to 2 finals. Stockton avg 12 pts in 2 NBA finals. That's 3rd or 4th best player on the team level scoring

[bonita_the_frog]

I say Cp3. He hasn't won a ring but every team he went to, the team got better. I think Chris offensive game is so good, he is good enough to to be Batman. Stockton lacked dynamic offensive skills like a Nash, Chris Paul, or Curry, which is why I don't think he could lead a team to a ring even though he went to 2 finals. Stockton avg 12 pts in 2 NBA finals. That's 3rd or 4th best player on the team level scoring

Well, Pippen only averaged 15.7 points per game on .343 fg shooting in the 1996 NBA Finals, and only 5.3 assists.
And Pippen again scored exactly 15.7ppg in the 1998 NBA Finals, and only 4.8 assists!

[azcatz11]

John Stockton is the coolest guy and player in the whole world, or equal with Chris Russo and Michael Jordan.
No surprise Stockton was the only person Jordan spoke to directly during his HOF speech (when making fun of Byron Russell).

Good call on Russo!! Agreed with that comp!

[bonita_the_frog]

John Stockton is the coolest guy and player in the whole world, or equal with Chris Russo and Michael Jordan.
No surprise Stockton was the only person Jordan spoke to directly during his HOF speech (when making fun of Byron Russell).

Good call on Russo!! Agreed with that comp!

Thanks for your support sir

[Jagic Mohnson]

I say Cp3. He hasn't won a ring but every team he went to, the team got better. I think Chris offensive game is so good, he is good enough to to be Batman. Stockton lacked dynamic offensive skills like a Nash, Chris Paul, or Curry, which is why I don't think he could lead a team to a ring even though he went to 2 finals. Stockton avg 12 pts in 2 NBA finals. That's 3rd or 4th best player on the team level scoring

Well, Pippen only averaged 15.7 points per game on .343 fg shooting in the 1996 NBA Finals, and only 5.3 assists.
And Pippen again scored exactly 15.7ppg in the 1998 NBA Finals, and only 4.8 assists!

Stockton should've, imo, been more aggressive offensively in the finals. He avgs 8-9 shots in the reg season and same in 2 NBA finals. That's not gonna cut it when your 2nd best players takes 8-9 shots per game in a finals. He only scored 20 points in 1 NBA finals game out of 12. In comparison, Pippen scored over 20, three times in the 98 finals.

[bonita_the_frog]

I say Cp3. He hasn't won a ring but every team he went to, the team got better. I think Chris offensive game is so good, he is good enough to to be Batman. Stockton lacked dynamic offensive skills like a Nash, Chris Paul, or Curry, which is why I don't think he could lead a team to a ring even though he went to 2 finals. Stockton avg 12 pts in 2 NBA finals. That's 3rd or 4th best player on the team level scoring

Well, Pippen only averaged 15.7 points per game on .343 fg shooting in the 1996 NBA Finals, and only 5.3 assists.
And Pippen again scored exactly 15.7ppg in the 1998 NBA Finals, and only 4.8 assists!

Stockton should've, imo, been more aggressive offensively in the finals. He avgs 8-9 shots in the reg season and same in 2 NBA finals. That's not gonna cut it when your 2nd best players takes 8-9 shots per game in a finals. He only scored 20 points in 1 NBA finals game out of 12. In comparison, Pippen scored over 20, three times in the 98 finals.

Stockton chose the right way to play, and elevated his teammates, and that's why the Jazz came closer than anyone to pushing the Bulls to Game 7 in NBA Finals (or as close as Phoenix 93). If Stockton shot more it might have hurt the flow of Jazz offense. He got everyone involved, and that's more valuable than shooting. Pippen's got a different role to Stockton.

[jdzimme3]

While I think cp3 is overrated by many, I understand the argument that he peaked higher and some would prefer him over stockton. That said, stocktons dependability is too big of a gap, give me him

[cupcakesnake]

Similar archetype of players. Strong defensive point guards and low-risk offensive playmakers.

Stockton has insane longevity and definitely has an edge in durability. After he becomes a full-time starter at age 25, it's just year after year of playing every game, and averaging a ton of minutes. His final 4 seasons (age 37-40), Stockton doesn't miss a single game and is still averaging just a hair under 30mpg. Really efficient scorer, outlier 3-point shooter in his era. His playmaking isn't as good as his assists suggest, but he's still really good. His defense isn't as ridiculous as his steals, but he's stil really good.

Paul has a much higher peak. Paul probably should have been the MVP in 2008. Stockton never finishes higher than 7th and was very rarely inside the top 10 in voting. Paul was 7th or higher...in 9 different seasons, with plenty of top 5 finishes. Paul was a much more threatening and aggressive scorer. I like Paul's defense a touch more, though both are really good here. Playmaking I have them in a similar tier. I think Paul is more versatile in the halfcourt, while Stockton was more aggressive in transition.

Adding my voice to the chorus saying Stockton for durability, but Paul is on another level at his peak.
On my all-time list I have Paul at 20, and Stockton at 29.

[falcolombardi]

Well, Pippen only averaged 15.7 points per game on .343 fg shooting in the 1996 NBA Finals, and only 5.3 assists.
And Pippen again scored exactly 15.7ppg in the 1998 NBA Finals, and only 4.8 assists!

Stockton should've, imo, been more aggressive offensively in the finals. He avgs 8-9 shots in the reg season and same in 2 NBA finals. That's not gonna cut it when your 2nd best players takes 8-9 shots per game in a finals. He only scored 20 points in 1 NBA finals game out of 12. In comparison, Pippen scored over 20, three times in the 98 finals.

Stockton chose the right way to play, and elevated his teammates, and that's why the Jazz came closer than anyone to pushing the Bulls to Game 7 in NBA Finals (or as close as Phoenix 93). If Stockton shot more it might have hurt the flow of Jazz offense. He got everyone involved, and that's more valuable than shooting. Pippen's got a different role to Stockton.

Closer than anyone to take them to game 7 except for, you know, those teams that took bulls to game 7? (90 pistons, 93 knicks, 98 pacers)

[ken6199]

In terms of all-time Stockton may have the slight edge due to longevity and durability, he never missed a game..

No doubt Stockton was Durable and healthier. But longevity, we should note CP3 has now played 1 more season that Stockton and I assume is going to play year 21 next year.

More durable is an absolute term and there is more context to it.

You can argue the pace is much faster during CP3's career compared to Stockton's, yet CP3 also has had more advanced techniques in training, diet, therapies, etc. This is always a hard issue to compare players' longevity and durability from different eras.

However it IS a fact that CP3 broken down more often when he was needed the most whereas Stockton didn't. That's one constant.