dhsilv2 wrote:runtmc wrote:dhsilv2 wrote:
The game was a 20 point blow out. Pointing out Wilt played all 48 minutes is a huge reason people don't value it. Then you ignore of course that the other "center" averaged 19.5 minutes a game that year...he was a backup who averaged 5.9 points and 6.2 boards that year on 38.6% shooting. So he actually played above his season averages in the game.
"Pointing out Wilt played all 48 minutes is a huge reason people don't value it."
Saying that Wilt played 48 minutes is a detraction from the game is absurd. He averaged 48.5mpg that season -- he played every minute of every game, aside from one where he was ejected with 8 minutes to go, plus every minute of every overtime. It wasnt like Wilt normally played 35mpg and then played 48 minutes in this one game -- he always played 48 minutes. If you dont value the game because Wilt played 48 minutes, you are simply hating for no reason. That season is the single greatest carry job by any single player in NBA history, period.
The fact that Wilt was able to do what he did, in spite of playing 48 minutes, is insane. Not because of it.
"Then you ignore of course that the other "center" averaged 19.5 minutes a game that year...he was a backup who averaged 5.9 points and 6.2 boards that year on 38.6% shooting. So he actually played above his season averages in the game."
Thats not ignoring it, Imhoff was starting because Jordon was out. And Wilt absolutely did destroy him, he fouled Imhoff out in 20 minutes, when Imhoff only averaged 3 fouls a game -- that's destroying the matchup. And Imhoff basically played dead on his season averages for points/reb/fg% -- a hair less rebounds and a hair more points/fg%, saying he played "above" his season averages is a stretch, particularly when you're insinuating I was "ignoring" the facts.
Just to confirm. You don't think 1962 was Wilt's best season right?
And yeah playing 48 minutes in a blow out was even then seen as running up the score.
As for the matchup, a guy that averages 20 minutes a game playing 20 minutes and even matching his normal stats isn't getting absolutely destroyed...now we have absolutely zero idea how much of Wilt's scoring was against him vs with him off the court. Though it's safe to point out the game was over in the 4th when Wilt scored 31 of his points and odds are Imhoff was already fouled out.
Depends on what you mean by "best". But generally, yes, I think its his best season, even if it wasnt his most successful from a team standpoint. Not *because* he scored 50 points a game, thats way too simplistic. But because of how much he was doing across the board, what he was asked to do, what he dealt with. Its the single greatest carry job by any player in NBA history, and its not really close.
He *was* the offense -- not because he was selfish or whatever boring narrative detractors like to throw out, but because thats what the coach designed the offense to be -- mostly because the rest of the team was garbage. His 50ppg is a product of the coach's system, not so much a product of singular offensive brilliance, though he was that too.
He *was* the defense -- Wilt was an all-time great defender, certainly with a case for being the GOAT defender, likely the best shot blocker (we'll never really know, but most of the evidence suggests this was the case), along with likely the best rebounder.
The fact that he was that good defensively, that good of a rebounder, while *also* being forced to carry the entire offense, the fact that he was able to carry the offense *while leading the league in TS%*, the fact he was able to do all that while playing every minute of every game, playing through injuries/never missing a game, while running around in Converse, without trainers, or dieticians/chefs, or anything else, while going game to game in buses, its... insane. What more do you want one player to do?
And all of that, despite the obscene level of pressure/expectations on him, probably more than any other player in history. You think the hype about Lebron was something, Wilt was the original "once in a generation" player -- recruited by 200+ colleges, when that sort of thing had never happened before in history. I mean, the guy wasnt even allowed to eat at some restaurants or stay at some hotels at the time, because segregation was still legal. I think its hard for people to wrap their mind around what that would have done to him mentally. People were looking for *any* excuse to tear him down at every turn because the hype/expectations were unlike anything anyone had ever seen before. Take a black guy, at that time in history, make him the most dominant physically gifted player anyone had ever seen, possibly still to this day, hype him up to the moon, and then dogpile him the second his team doesnt win every championship ever -- he was the perfect lightning rod. People love to criticize and tear down someone that everyone says is the best or seems to have every advantage. As Wilt said: "Nobody roots for Goliath".
To put it in perspective, the very next season, in 1962, he put up 45 and 24 -- and finished *7th* in MVP voting, behind Red Kerr. A center averaging 15 and 13. If that doesnt tell you how insane the criticism and judgement he got was, I dont know what does.
There were articles about how Wilt was "ruining" basketball, NBA rules were changed because of him personally -- all while constantly being compared to Russell, because Russell had the "perfect" unselfish/team-first/demure sort of attitude. He was the "right" kind of personality that a black person was allowed to have back then. Wilt? Not so much. Because he was so good, anything less than perfection, every year, was failure, which is ridiculous. He was "selfish" because he scored too much, even though it was the coach that dictated that. Case in point, Wilt voluntarily gave up his scoring when he went to Philly and lead the league in assists -- because how many selfish players would ever do that? He completely re-invented his game in the 2nd half of his career, mostly because of all the criticism he got. And the guy was still playing 43mpg and was 4th in MVP voting at age 36.
I mean, his team lost by 1pt in 3OT in the NCAA finals despite the fact it had been a sub .500 team before he got there? Obviously hes a "loser". Only won 2 rings and 4 MVPs (and probably should have had 6-7 MVPs)? "Loser", even though its something like a total of 8 points in game 7s go the other way and the guy has an NCAA championship and 5-6 rings. The criticism he faced was just insane.
Beyond that, saying him playing 48 minutes a game was somehow stat padding, when he played 48 minutes EVERY game is ridiculous. Or that he was stat padding or selfish to hit 50ppg. "He only got 50ppg because of the pace of the game and the fact he played 48 minutes" or "he only grabbed so many rebounds because he played 48 minutes, look at the percentage of rebounds he grabbed". You cant simultaneously discount Wilt's stat totals, and then turn around and knock him for his rate stats. If Wilt had been able to play just 30-35mpg, allowed to rest injuries, had a trainer, etc -- his rate stats would be untouchable. They're already at historic all-time levels even *with* him playing 48 minutes, can you imagine if he'd been able to go 100% all the time? Instead, he had to pace himself, because he knew the load he had to carry -- he had to play 48 minutes a night, and he had to play every game. Its not at all a stretch to say he's the most durable player in NBA history, which is insane given he's 7'1. Just look at what happened when he wasnt forced to jack up 50 shots a game -- he already had lead the league in TS%, but he set records for TS% that lasted for 50 years when he was no longer the sole focus of the offense. His rate stats would have gone through the roof similarly.
Same thing with discounting what he did because of pace -- Wilt scored 60% more than Bellamy, and 30% more than Baylor. Thats the largest gap between 1st and 2nd on a percentage basis, let alone on totals, in NBA history. If pace was the reason for his scoring, he wouldnt be that far ahead of 2nd place on a percentage basis -- nobody else, in all of NBA history, has had a season 30% ahead of 2nd, let alone 60%.
