2003-04 Peja Stojaković before Chris Webber came back from injury (57 RS games)

[NZB2323]

The Grizzlies went 17-9 without him in 05 lmao. The year they won 45 games it was in large part because Pau was holding them back. You're asking who's the 2nd best player like the Grizzlies ain't have a bunch of elite defenders around him and a top 5 defense in the league those years. Memphis was full of future NBA Champions.


... Ok this must just be Kobe hate lmao.


I mean I'm never going to say he wasn't on a stacked team. He was. And they performed like a stacked team. What does this have to do with Pau?


I never said he was MVP level lol. He was at least all league level though and Pau wasn't. Both Peja and C. Webb were better than Pau.

1. 17-9 is a winning percentage of 65%. From 2000-2004, the King went 63-20 without CWebb, which is a winning percentage of 76%. Not only is it a bigger sample size, but it’s a better winning percentage. There was some talent on the Grizzlies, but Webber had Bibby outplaying Nash in the playoffs, Peja(4th in MVP voting in 04), Vlade, Christie, and the best bench in the NBA.

2. It’s not Kobe hate to say you shouldn’t hate a on player who didn’t win a stacked West without a 2nd star. How many playoff series did Pau win without Kobe is essentially the same argument as how many playoff series did Kobe win without Shaq. I haven’t said anything hateful about Kobe in this thread, I have him ranked higher than most people on Realgm, and my original argument was that Kobe was a MVP level player from this era and players like Webber and Pau were not.

3. A team having a 76 win % without their star is crazy. Right now the Thunder are the only team with a winning % that good.

4. You’re right, that wasn’t you that said he was MVP level. That was @karmew32, which was the first post I responded to in this thread.

1. Ok? What does this have to do with what I said? Did I say C. Webb had less talented teams than Pau? No? Then what point is being made here? Also the 04 Kings had Brad Miller (an all star in 03 and 04) replacing C. Webb in the lineup. You guys keep using that team to make a point like he wasn't great. For all the RAPM and advanced numbers talk it's no one mentioning Brad Miller was a top tier guy in that time and he wasn't there before 04. In 02 (their peak as a team) they were 42-12 with C. Webb and 19-9 without him. Still great without him, but nowhere near as great as they were with a bonafide all star replacing him in the lineup.

2. I'm not hating on Pau for not winning in a stacked West. Did I mention him losing once? How did Kobe even come into this all I said was Pau was barely all star level pre Kobe and for damn sure wasn't MVP level so he shouldn't be mentioned with C. Webb and Paul Pierce. You decided to bring up Kobe for God knows what reason.

3. Ok? Like what do you want me to say to this lmao. Also you're a liar. They were 39-23 (.629) without C. Webb from 2000 to 2003 and 44-15 without him in 2004 (.746). You deadass just made up a number lmaoooo.

4. You going to acknowledge you made up numbers to make C. Webb look worse than he was?

I guess I got some bad intel from AI, but from from 2001-2002 to 2003-2004, the Kings had a 71.6 winning % without CWebb and a 70.8 winning % with him.

In 2001 he had a TS% of 42.7 in the 01 playoffs and 40.7 in the 99 playoffs. His career playoff TS% is 49.6% and his playoff TS+ is 95. Compare that to Gasol who has a playoff TS% of 55.9% and playoff TS+ of 105.

Kobe came into this thread because you brought up Kobe. This is you, the first mention of Kobe in this thread:

He was struggling to make the playoffs out West and was like a 1 time all star pre Kobe. He's gotten vastly overrated in hindsight because people don't want to give Kobe his credit.

And then you called me a Kobe hater for me saying that Gasol not winning without Kobe was like Kobe not winning with Shaq or Gasol, when it’s the same argument: a player not winning in a playoff series in the stacked West without another all-star.

[E-Balla]

In 2011 Pau was 2nd in WS, 7th in VORP, 11th in PER, and 10th in BPM, but was dominated by Peja, who played in 33 games and averaged 9, 2, and 1?

Gasol also started the season with a game winning block on LeBron James and was much better defensively than Peja in 2011.

All those empty numbers and Peja still outplayed him in limited PT in the playoffs. Sheesh.

Empty numbers? The Lakers won 57 games.

I know Peja was red hot in limited minutes off the bench, but this is like saying that Steve Kerr outplayed Steve Nash in the 2003 playoffs.

Kerr played 15 minutes in that series be serious. In Pau's best season a washed Peja in limited PT was a better player. He scored the same amount of points on less shots in less minutes and was less of a defensive liability at the same time. If "catching fire" off the bench can lead to you outperforming an All Pro it shows how deserving that All Pro selection really was. You guys are putting Pau in convos he has no business being in this is doing a disservice to him.

Edit: Also sure they won 57 games, but they were 47-26 without Pau from 08-10.

[dhsilv2]

I'm sorry but when you reduce a full season and 2 rounds of the playoffs to essentially 2 key playoff games. That's just flat out dishonest debating at it's most fundamental level.

He was talking about the series against LA very specifically...

This is what he does over and over. He says in 2011...meaning that playoff series. But no serious and honest person is going to assume they mean a series unless it's stated. Which is why it's so dishonest.

[dhsilv2]

First off MVP isn't a "best player in the league" award. But let me pick a random year there. C. Webb was 6th in VORP in 2000, 8th in WS if you exclude guys that were 2nd on their team in WS, and 9th in MVP voting. Was he overrated? Also stats (especially boxscore derived stats that you seem to love like win shares of all things) aren't perfect. All of these numbers have a margin of error and a confidence interval. If C. Webb is in the ball park (for example if he's 10th in VORP and 7th in MVP voting) the numbers DO support him being there. It's just a lot of awful statistics usage here.


Hilariously none of those same advanced stats you're saying overrate Webber are being used to inform your opinion here. Let me guess it's because Pau has a higher TS%? Can't be VORP/BPM because prime Webber is better. Can't be RAPM because prime Webber is better. Can't be any of the all in one numbers like RAPTOR and DARKO. What is it?

Your argument is that the advanced stats are more favorable. If we're "in the ball park" then they aren't. What you just argued supports the counter to your original statement.

If he got a worthy of top 75 discussion resume during his career, and people don't give him that respect (he wasn't in the realgm top 100), and his stats show his resume is deserved, then yes his stats support the idea that he deserves more respect. Your lack of understanding of how stats work isn't my problem. You literally said a 44.7 career VORP is way over a 42.1 and 91 WS is way over 85. You're using numbers you don't understand here.

The real GM top 100 wasn't the context of the discussion. You keep wanting to reframe everything to paint a picture that you didn't start with. If you want to argue the that player comp board got it wrong, just say that. But you're wrong about the advanced stats painting Webber in a more favorable light than the view of him at the time.

I cited the gap in terms of career ranking between George and Webber. But go ahead insult me on my understanding of stats that I clearly understand better than you do.

[NZB2323]

All those empty numbers and Peja still outplayed him in limited PT in the playoffs. Sheesh.

Empty numbers? The Lakers won 57 games.

I know Peja was red hot in limited minutes off the bench, but this is like saying that Steve Kerr outplayed Steve Nash in the 2003 playoffs.

Kerr played 15 minutes in that series be serious. In Pau's best season a washed Peja in limited PT was a better player. He scored the same amount of points on less shots in less minutes and was less of a defensive liability at the same time. If "catching fire" off the bench can lead to you outperforming an All Pro it shows how deserving that All Pro selection really was. You guys are putting Pau in convos he has no business being in this is doing a disservice to him.

Why would you judge an 18 year career off of 1 playoff series? What about the 2010 playoffs when he won a championship and led the playoffs in WS? What about the 2004 playoffs when he had a PER of 29.4? What about the 99 playoffs for Webber, when he had a 40.7 TS?

What about the 2010 Finals when he outplayed KG?

[tsherkin]

This is what he does over and over. He says in 2011...meaning that playoff series. But no serious and honest person is going to assume they mean a series unless it's stated. Which is why it's so dishonest.

But he kept saying "against LA" over and over again.

[E-Balla]

I guess I got some bad intel from AI, but from from 2001-2002 to 2003-2004, the Kings had a 71.6 winning % without CWebb and a 70.8 winning % with him.

So you're going to ignore the All Star PF/C that came into the lineup when C. Webb was hurt?

In 2001 he had a TS% of 42.7 in the 01 playoffs and 40.7 in the 99 playoffs. His career playoff TS% is 49.6% and his playoff TS+ is 95. Compare that to Gasol who has a playoff TS% of 55.9% and playoff TS+ of 105.

Ok and? One guy got to play with Kobe which boosted his numbers and wasn't a volume scorer.

Kobe came into this thread because you brought up Kobe. This is you, the first mention of Kobe in this thread:

He was struggling to make the playoffs out West and was like a 1 time all star pre Kobe. He's gotten vastly overrated in hindsight because people don't want to give Kobe his credit.

And then you called me a Kobe hater for me saying that Gasol not winning without Kobe was like Kobe not winning with Shaq or Gasol, when it’s the same argument: a player not winning in a playoff series in the stacked West without another all-star.

I didn't say anything about Gasol not winning in the playoffs. I said he wasn't even a consistent all star and was never all league pre Kobe. That's an argument about his individual game not team success.

[E-Balla]

I'm sorry but when you reduce a full season and 2 rounds of the playoffs to essentially 2 key playoff games. That's just flat out dishonest debating at it's most fundamental level.

He was talking about the series against LA very specifically...

This is what he does over and over. He says in 2011...meaning that playoff series. But no serious and honest person is going to assume they mean a series unless it's stated. Which is why it's so dishonest.

Hey serious guy tell me what numbers you have other than WS to say Pau > C. Webb or Peja?

[dhsilv2]

He was talking about the series against LA very specifically...

This is what he does over and over. He says in 2011...meaning that playoff series. But no serious and honest person is going to assume they mean a series unless it's stated. Which is why it's so dishonest.

Hey serious guy tell me what numbers you have other than WS to say Pau > C. Webb or Peja?

Are you talking about THIS comment?

Now do I think the Kings would have been better with prime Pau over Webber? Oh hell yes.

In what freaking world would I use WS to explain why I'd rather have Pau on THOSE Kings over Webber? I didn't even say he was better. I said he'd be better on the Kings. Others have more than taking care of arguing about why Webber and Pau are similar so that's not useful. But yes, having a guy who'd shoot less and pass more, not to mention a better passer in Pau would have fit the Kings much better.

[NZB2323]

I guess I got some bad intel from AI, but from from 2001-2002 to 2003-2004, the Kings had a 71.6 winning % without CWebb and a 70.8 winning % with him.

So you're going to ignore the All Star PF/C that came into the lineup when C. Webb was hurt?

In 2001 he had a TS% of 42.7 in the 01 playoffs and 40.7 in the 99 playoffs. His career playoff TS% is 49.6% and his playoff TS+ is 95. Compare that to Gasol who has a playoff TS% of 55.9% and playoff TS+ of 105.

Ok and? One guy got to play with Kobe which boosted his numbers and wasn't a volume scorer.

Kobe came into this thread because you brought up Kobe. This is you, the first mention of Kobe in this thread:

He was struggling to make the playoffs out West and was like a 1 time all star pre Kobe. He's gotten vastly overrated in hindsight because people don't want to give Kobe his credit.

And then you called me a Kobe hater for me saying that Gasol not winning without Kobe was like Kobe not winning with Shaq or Gasol, when it’s the same argument: a player not winning in a playoff series in the stacked West without another all-star.

I didn't say anything about Gasol not winning in the playoffs. I said he wasn't even a consistent all star and was never all league pre Kobe. That's an argument about his individual game not team success.

They had all-star Vlade before they had all-star Brad Miller.

Kobe boosted Pau’s numbers? In the 2004 playoffs Pau had a PER of 29.4. Pau played well with Kobe but he also had good numbers in Memphis and Chicago. Also, CWebb got to play on the team with the best ball movement in the NBA.

We can talk about Pau’s lack of playoff success in Memphis, but CWebb never won a playoff game before he got to Sacramento. And he lost in the first round in 99 and 2000 before winning 1 playoff series with Peja, all-star Vlade, Doug Christie, who finished 4th in DPOTY voting, Bobby Jackson who finished 4th in 6th man voting, Jason Williams, Jon Barry, and Hedo, and then the next year he got Mike Bibby.

Chris Webber only won 5 playoff series in his entire career, which has a lot to do with his all-time rankings. He didn’t take the ball inside because he was afraid of shooting free throws and was a career 64.9% free throw shooter in the regular season and 61.1% in the playoffs. He was also afraid to touch the ball at the end of games. His career playoff TS% and TS+ is terrible.

I really don’t see what argument he has for top 75, especially since that list came out we have to add Jokic, SGA, Tatum, Brown, and Luka to the list, and then snubs from the top 75 include Dwight Howard, Billups, Tmac, Ginobili, and Mutumbo.

[E-Balla]

Empty numbers? The Lakers won 57 games.

I know Peja was red hot in limited minutes off the bench, but this is like saying that Steve Kerr outplayed Steve Nash in the 2003 playoffs.

Kerr played 15 minutes in that series be serious. In Pau's best season a washed Peja in limited PT was a better player. He scored the same amount of points on less shots in less minutes and was less of a defensive liability at the same time. If "catching fire" off the bench can lead to you outperforming an All Pro it shows how deserving that All Pro selection really was. You guys are putting Pau in convos he has no business being in this is doing a disservice to him.

Why would you judge an 18 year career off of 1 playoff series? What about the 2010 playoffs when he won a championship and led the playoffs in WS? What about the 2004 playoffs when he had a PER of 29.4? What about the 99 playoffs for Webber, when he had a 40.7 TS?

What about the 2010 Finals when he outplayed KG?

Saying he led the playoffs in WS is about as valid to me as saying he led the league in mystic fairy dust sightings. It's a garbage stat and once you realized how it's calculated you quickly understand it shouldn't ever be used seriously.

Secondly the 2004 playoffs is when he put up a bunch of garbage numbers while getting swept by the Spurs and being the worst starter on the team in net rating.

And I'm not judging a career off 1 series, I literally pointed out his performance in 8 of 20 series during his prime lmao.

[E-Balla]

This is what he does over and over. He says in 2011...meaning that playoff series. But no serious and honest person is going to assume they mean a series unless it's stated. Which is why it's so dishonest.

Hey serious guy tell me what numbers you have other than WS to say Pau > C. Webb or Peja?

Are you talking about THIS comment?

Now do I think the Kings would have been better with prime Pau over Webber? Oh hell yes.

In what freaking world would I use WS to explain why I'd rather have Pau on THOSE Kings over Webber? I didn't even say he was better. I said he'd be better on the Kings. Others have more than taking care of arguing about why Webber and Pau are similar so that's not useful. But yes, having a guy who'd shoot less and pass more, not to mention a better passer in Pau would have fit the Kings much better.

Cool, explain what Pau has ever done that makes you think he'd be better than Webber? Just because he takes less shots? Even if he's a worse defender and equal offensive player in a vacuum?

[canada_dry]

Back on topic since we talking Peja he was such a great player even in 2011 while old and injured he was better than Pau Gasol in a season when Pau somehow was 2nd team all league. Dominated him. It's levels to this.

Yeah everything goes right out the window with a comment like this lmao.

[NZB2323]

Kerr played 15 minutes in that series be serious. In Pau's best season a washed Peja in limited PT was a better player. He scored the same amount of pointsi on less shots in less minutes and was less of a defensive liability at the same time. If "catching fire" off the bench can lead to you outperforming an All Pro it shows how deserving that All Pro selection really was. You guys are putting Pau in convos he has no business being in this is doing a disservice to him.

Why would you judge an 18 year career off of 1 playoff series? What about the 2010 playoffs when he won a championship and led the playoffs in WS? What about the 2004 playoffs when he had a PER of 29.4? What about the 99 playoffs for Webber, when he had a 40.7 TS?

What about the 2010 Finals when he outplayed KG?

Saying he led the playoffs in WS is about as valid to me as saying he led the league in mystic fairy dust sightings. It's a garbage stat and once you realized how it's calculated you quickly understand it shouldn't ever be used seriously.

Secondly the 2004 playoffs is when he put up a bunch of garbage numbers while getting swept by the Spurs and being the worst starter on the team in net rating.

And I'm not judging a career off 1 series, I literally pointed out his performance in 8 of 20 series during his prime lmao.

What stat do you like then, VORP? Since you keep using VORP for CWebb being a top 75 player.

VORP
Gasol - 33rd
Webber - 59th

Playoff VORP
Gasol - 40th
Webber - 115th

[canada_dry]

The Grizzlies went 17-9 without him in 05 lmao. The year they won 45 games it was in large part because Pau was holding them back. You're asking who's the 2nd best player like the Grizzlies ain't have a bunch of elite defenders around him and a top 5 defense in the league those years. Memphis was full of future NBA Champions.


... Ok this must just be Kobe hate lmao.


I mean I'm never going to say he wasn't on a stacked team. He was. And they performed like a stacked team. What does this have to do with Pau?


I never said he was MVP level lol. He was at least all league level though and Pau wasn't. Both Peja and C. Webb were better than Pau.

1. 17-9 is a winning percentage of 65%. From 2000-2004, the King went 63-20 without CWebb, which is a winning percentage of 76%. Not only is it a bigger sample size, but it’s a better winning percentage. There was some talent on the Grizzlies, but Webber had Bibby outplaying Nash in the playoffs, Peja(4th in MVP voting in 04), Vlade, Christie, and the best bench in the NBA.

2. It’s not Kobe hate to say you shouldn’t hate a on player who didn’t win a stacked West without a 2nd star. How many playoff series did Pau win without Kobe is essentially the same argument as how many playoff series did Kobe win without Shaq. I haven’t said anything hateful about Kobe in this thread, I have him ranked higher than most people on Realgm, and my original argument was that Kobe was a MVP level player from this era and players like Webber and Pau were not.

3. A team having a 76 win % without their star is crazy. Right now the Thunder are the only team with a winning % that good.

4. You’re right, that wasn’t you that said he was MVP level. That was @karmew32, which was the first post I responded to in this thread.

1. Ok? What does this have to do with what I said? Did I say C. Webb had less talented teams than Pau? No? Then what point is being made here? Also the 04 Kings had Brad Miller (an all star in 03 and 04) replacing C. Webb in the lineup. You guys keep using that team to make a point like he wasn't great. For all the RAPM and advanced numbers talk it's no one mentioning Brad Miller was a top tier guy in that time and he wasn't there before 04. In 02 (their peak as a team) they were 42-12 with C. Webb and 19-9 without him. Still great without him, but nowhere near as great as they were with a bonafide all star replacing him in the lineup.

2. I'm not hating on Pau for not winning in a stacked West. Did I mention him losing once? How did Kobe even come into this all I said was Pau was barely all star level pre Kobe and for damn sure wasn't MVP level so he shouldn't be mentioned with C. Webb and Paul Pierce. You decided to bring up Kobe for God knows what reason.

3. Ok? Like what do you want me to say to this lmao. Also you're a liar. They were 39-23 (.629) without C. Webb from 2000 to 2003 and 44-15 without him in 2004 (.746). You deadass just made up a number lmaoooo.

4. You going to acknowledge you made up numbers to make C. Webb look worse than he was?

Brother you brought kobe up when you said people overrate pau to minimize kobe. He responded to that to say he felt it was the opposite. Then you asked why kobe was even brought up.

[E-Balla]

I guess I got some bad intel from AI, but from from 2001-2002 to 2003-2004, the Kings had a 71.6 winning % without CWebb and a 70.8 winning % with him.

So you're going to ignore the All Star PF/C that came into the lineup when C. Webb was hurt?

In 2001 he had a TS% of 42.7 in the 01 playoffs and 40.7 in the 99 playoffs. His career playoff TS% is 49.6% and his playoff TS+ is 95. Compare that to Gasol who has a playoff TS% of 55.9% and playoff TS+ of 105.

Ok and? One guy got to play with Kobe which boosted his numbers and wasn't a volume scorer.

Kobe came into this thread because you brought up Kobe. This is you, the first mention of Kobe in this thread:



And then you called me a Kobe hater for me saying that Gasol not winning without Kobe was like Kobe not winning with Shaq or Gasol, when it’s the same argument: a player not winning in a playoff series in the stacked West without another all-star.

I didn't say anything about Gasol not winning in the playoffs. I said he wasn't even a consistent all star and was never all league pre Kobe. That's an argument about his individual game not team success.

They had all-star Vlade before they had all-star Brad Miller.

Ok? What point are you making. When did I ever say Vlade wasn't great. You're still arguing against a point nobody ever made lmao.

Kobe boosted Pau’s numbers? In the 2004 playoffs Pau had a PER of 29.4.

You said I'm talking about one series when I mentioned 20 and here you are using a 4-0 blowout loss where Pau averaged 18.5 ppg to hype him up lmao.

Pau played well with Kobe but he also had good numbers in Memphis and Chicago. Also, CWebb got to play on the team with the best ball movement in the NBA.

We can talk about Pau’s lack of playoff success in Memphis, but CWebb never won a playoff game before he got to Sacramento. And he lost in the first round in 99 and 2000 before winning 1 playoff series with Peja, all-star Vlade, Doug Christie, who finished 4th in MVP voting, Bobby Jackson who finished 4th in 6th man voting, Jason Williams, Jon Barry, and Hedo, and then the next year he got Mike Bibby.

... Doug Christie who finished 4th in MVP voting. Totally lmao.

And again who said C. Webb didn't have great squads. What point are you making?

Chris Webber only won 5 playoff series in his entire career, which has a lot to do with his all-time rankings. He didn’t take the ball inside because he was afraid of shooting free throws and was a career 64.9% free throw shooter in the regular season and 61.1% in the playoffs. He was also afraid to touch the ball at the end of games. His career playoff TS% and TS+ is terrible.

I really don’t see what argument he has for top 75, especially since that list came out we have to add Jokic, SGA, Tatum, Brown, and Luka to the list, and then snubs from the top 75 include Dwight Howard, Billups, Tmac, Ginobili, and Mutumbo.

I mean that's cool, but if Pau makes it C. Webb should. So should a lot of PFs from that time. Pau ain't like that. Never was.

[dhsilv2]

Hey serious guy tell me what numbers you have other than WS to say Pau > C. Webb or Peja?

Are you talking about THIS comment?

Now do I think the Kings would have been better with prime Pau over Webber? Oh hell yes.

In what freaking world would I use WS to explain why I'd rather have Pau on THOSE Kings over Webber? I didn't even say he was better. I said he'd be better on the Kings. Others have more than taking care of arguing about why Webber and Pau are similar so that's not useful. But yes, having a guy who'd shoot less and pass more, not to mention a better passer in Pau would have fit the Kings much better.

Cool, explain what Pau has ever done that makes you think he'd be better than Webber? Just because he takes less shots? Even if he's a worse defender and equal offensive player in a vacuum?

Others have more than covered where you're off on this comparison. But yes, shooting less alone might very well have been enough to greatly improve the kings.

[E-Balla]

Why would you judge an 18 year career off of 1 playoff series? What about the 2010 playoffs when he won a championship and led the playoffs in WS? What about the 2004 playoffs when he had a PER of 29.4? What about the 99 playoffs for Webber, when he had a 40.7 TS?

What about the 2010 Finals when he outplayed KG?

Saying he led the playoffs in WS is about as valid to me as saying he led the league in mystic fairy dust sightings. It's a garbage stat and once you realized how it's calculated you quickly understand it shouldn't ever be used seriously.

Secondly the 2004 playoffs is when he put up a bunch of garbage numbers while getting swept by the Spurs and being the worst starter on the team in net rating.

And I'm not judging a career off 1 series, I literally pointed out his performance in 8 of 20 series during his prime lmao.

What stat do you like then, VORP? Since you keep using VORP for CWebb being a top 75 player.

VORP
Gasol - 33rd
Webber - 59th

Playoff VORP
Gasol - 40th
Webber - 115th

I don't like any all in one stat I look at a totality of a career I'm responding to someone that thinks the game is played with spreadsheets though. And yeah Pau is good according to VORP. Are you going to address that I spoke on how his efficiency was buns in 8 of his 20 series during his prime?

[E-Balla]

Are you talking about THIS comment?



In what freaking world would I use WS to explain why I'd rather have Pau on THOSE Kings over Webber? I didn't even say he was better. I said he'd be better on the Kings. Others have more than taking care of arguing about why Webber and Pau are similar so that's not useful. But yes, having a guy who'd shoot less and pass more, not to mention a better passer in Pau would have fit the Kings much better.

Cool, explain what Pau has ever done that makes you think he'd be better than Webber? Just because he takes less shots? Even if he's a worse defender and equal offensive player in a vacuum?

Others have more than covered where you're off on this comparison. But yes, shooting less alone might very well have been enough to greatly improve the kings.

I want to hear your opinion not others. And if you think that alone is enough explain Pau's career outside of when he had Kobe carrying?

[E-Balla]

Back on topic since we talking Peja he was such a great player even in 2011 while old and injured he was better than Pau Gasol in a season when Pau somehow was 2nd team all league. Dominated him. It's levels to this.

Yeah everything goes right out the window with a comment like this lmao.

If you want to win a series in 2011 you want Peja or Pau? Only one answer to this.