China cancels NBA stuff / Silver issues statement (pg1) /Ongoing discussion...

CelticsLV · Post #1001 » by **CelticsLV** » Wed Oct 9, 2019 3:00 pm

manou wrote:China is pushing all its power everywhere. Don't know if everyone is aware of a similar scandal right now, involving the giant video game company Blizzard, which just banned for a full year a esport pro player named Blitzchung for supporting HK. They even freezed all his prize money (how can that be legal?...). Thus starting a massive campaing against them on Reddit/Twitter and so on.

What did you expect from a company that turned one of their biggest franchises into mobile garbage just to prioritize chinese market. And had the guts to announce that abomination in front of their faithful fanbase.

MrDollarBills · Post #1002 » by **MrDollarBills** » Wed Oct 9, 2019 3:04 pm

sikma42 wrote:Why would you want to create a more hostile situation between the US and China. Wtf is your end goal? Do you want people to die
Blazers-1977 wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Most US Companies who are in bed with them are. Disney is scared **** less of the Chinese Government.

This is why CNBC should press CEO’s who do business with China on this issue . What is China gonna do ban every US corporation

Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app

Neither the US or Chinese government are interested in getting into a shooting war where MAD is all but certain. Plus, there's too much money on the line.

mtron929 · Post #1003 » by **mtron929** » Wed Oct 9, 2019 3:05 pm

13th Man wrote:This has really become bigger than basketball or perhaps even money itself.

This is my opinion being pro-democracy. If China continues to over-react and not give in an inch, the NBA should walk away from China completely and tell them to go F themselves. We need to stand up for our values as well. Negotiating is about finding some middle ground while both parties have their integrity in tact. It simply cannot work if it's too one-sided....unless if you're willing to sell out or values and your integrity completely.

I suspect that they would at minimum want Morey to be fired or for Morey to resign. Not sure if this has been notified to Morey, and what he would be willing to do in this situation. It is complicated because if there wasn't such a spotlight on the NBA, for 90+% of the situations, someone like Morey would be gone already. But there is of course a backlash if Morey does get fired. I think there would be backlash if Morey resigns as well but a lot of that would hinge on what Morey says. If his resignation speech indicates that he is stepping away due to the harm that's causing the NBA, then most people would be more accepting. And if China accepts this type of a resignation, then I guess that would be the best way out of this mess.

Post #1004 » by **ken6199** » Wed Oct 9, 2019 3:06 pm

bulliedog8 wrote:
QRich3 wrote:It's very easy for someone with no real stakes to come in to a basketball forum and demand a loud FU from Silver, but that would be a really irresponsible thing to do, and not a realistic reaction. When there is a lot of money at stake, there is also a lot of people's livelihoods at stake, and big ripple effects from decisions like that. In reality you have to tread very carefully, and attributing that tact to simply greed is shortsighted imo. You can't just insult a whole country out of principle, and forget about the consequences.

About standing up for human rights, it's not the NBA's job to do that, when the government of their country, or pretty much any other 1st world country, isn't even doing it. And yet they've come as close as telling the Chinese government to go take a hike as anyone has.

I thought Silver handled it as well as it could possibly be handled, to be honest.

And I think most current critics against him, or Kerr and Popovich by extension, clearly come from some agenda from some other issue.

I agree with the bold 100%. But the fact that they love to do it with every other issue, but not now. People dont like the hypocrisy. The big difference now is money. Shows they dont actually care about the stuff they yell at the world about when their money is on the line.

People feel there is a hypocrisy because they were somewhat listening or even believing what those guys used to say. I for one, never cared about what LeBron or Kerr or Pop has to say about politics. I treat their opinion just as "an opinion", nothing special like every other people's opinion. It never occurs to me like "wow it's great to hear LeBron speak out about this and that". The guy is a freaking athlete, just watch him excel in his career. Having 100m followers on twitter and IG doesn't make you a human rights specialist or make your words truer than those who only have 100 followers (for example, me), so why would I listen to you on those issues over actual human right specialists? That's my take on this. They can talk about Trump, BLM, Sterling all they want, or they can shut up on the HK issue all they want, it doesn't make a difference to me because 1) freedom of speech 2) they are athletes it's not their job to comment on those issues so it's not for us to judge what they should or should not say and I think that's the extended version of that bold part.

flavio_93 · Post #1005 » by **flavio_93** » Wed Oct 9, 2019 3:07 pm

What is Steve kerrs and Pops opinion on this matter? Why are they so quiet? What about LeBron? Isn’t he the one who said he wouldn’t shut up and dribble. Why is he shutting up and dribbling when it comes to China?

Steve Kerr and pop have a big opinion on anything trump related but money talks and money is telling them to shut up and coach. Such hypocrites

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

sikma42 · Post #1006 » by **sikma42** » Wed Oct 9, 2019 3:11 pm

Regardless, there could be very real consequences to the US Economy, which is already heading towards a recession. Fundamentals arent that strong in the US...not worth the risk imo

MrDollarBills wrote:
sikma42 wrote:Why would you want to create a more hostile situation between the US and China. Wtf is your end goal? Do you want people to die
Blazers-1977 wrote:

This is why CNBC should press CEO’s who do business with China on this issue . What is China gonna do ban every US corporation

Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app

Neither the US or Chinese government are interested in getting into a shooting war where MAD is all but certain. Plus, there's too much money on the line.

Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app

MrDollarBills · Post #1007 » by **MrDollarBills** » Wed Oct 9, 2019 3:11 pm

13th Man wrote:This has really become bigger than basketball or perhaps even money itself.

This is my opinion being pro-democracy. If China continues to over-react and not give in an inch, the NBA should walk away from China completely and tell them to go F themselves. We need to stand up for our values as well. Negotiating is about finding some middle ground while both parties have their integrity in tact. It simply cannot work if it's too one-sided....unless if you're willing to sell out or values and your integrity completely.

I agree 100%. It may be a financial hit, but the CCP is not acting out of good faith here with their extreme actions.

The NBA faces massive backlash in their home territory if they completely bend over for Xi Jinping. Adam Silver did the right thing by saying we apologize for what happened, but we absolutely defend our employees rights to freedom of expression.

MrDollarBills · Post #1008 » by **MrDollarBills** » Wed Oct 9, 2019 3:14 pm

sikma42 wrote:Nobody wants to get into a war...but trade wars can lead to actual wars.

Regardless, there could be very real consequences to the US Economy, which is already heading towards a recession. Fundamentals arent that strong in the US...not worth the risk imo
MrDollarBills wrote:
sikma42 wrote:Why would you want to create a more hostile situation between the US and China. Wtf is your end goal? Do you want people to die

Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app

Neither the US or Chinese government are interested in getting into a shooting war where MAD is all but certain. Plus, there's too much money on the line.

Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app

This isn't the forum to discuss this, but I happen to think that a lot of this coming from the CCP is stemming from the idiot in chief's trade war in the first place.

JellosJigglin · Post #1009 » by **JellosJigglin** » Wed Oct 9, 2019 3:16 pm

flavio_93 wrote:What is Steve kerrs and Pops opinion on this matter? Why are they so quiet? What about LeBron? Isn’t he the one who said he wouldn’t shut up and dribble. Why is he shutting up and dribbling when it comes to China?

Steve Kerr and pop have a big opinion on anything trump related but money talks and money is telling them to shut up and coach. Such hypocrites

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Kerr said he didn't know enough about the situation to comment on it. Lebron is in China, where they just arrested a Rockets fan for posting a picture of himself holding a lighter to a chinese flag. Now is not the time for Lebron to speak out against China. It's generally not a good idea to insult the country you're visiting.

MrDollarBills · Post #1010 » by **MrDollarBills** » Wed Oct 9, 2019 3:17 pm

flavio_93 wrote:What is Steve kerrs and Pops opinion on this matter? Why are they so quiet? What about LeBron? Isn’t he the one who said he wouldn’t shut up and dribble. Why is he shutting up and dribbling when it comes to China?

Steve Kerr and pop have a big opinion on anything trump related but money talks and money is telling them to shut up and coach. Such hypocrites

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Could be because the league told everyone to fall back and let Adam Silver do the talking. His statement I thought was the correct response.

Also, a lot of folks aren't exactly well versed enough to go into detail about the sensitivities around China's issues surrounding HK. Sometimes it's just best to be quiet and learn before offering an opinion.

I do however expect both of them to support the right of free speech that we have in America. That is in an issue that the Chinese are trying to dictate and that cannot fly, which Adam Silver said as much.

Post #1011 » by **ken6199** » Wed Oct 9, 2019 3:17 pm

flavio_93 wrote:What is Steve kerrs and Pops opinion on this matter? Why are they so quiet? What about LeBron? Isn’t he the one who said he wouldn’t shut up and dribble. Why is he shutting up and dribbling when it comes to China?

Steve Kerr and pop have a big opinion on anything trump related but money talks and money is telling them to shut up and coach. Such hypocrites

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Again, it's not as simple as "money talks", it's called consequence. If I see a homeless guy I will give him $1 without hesitation, but when I see that only 20 dollar bill in my wallet, I will pause for a second. I may or may not give it to him, depending on the situation (or simply my mood on that day). And can people accuse me for not having heart? Money talks right?

There is a thing called internet proportionality issue. Depending on the situation saying different things will lead to different consequences, so as a speaker, they absolutely have the right to choose to say something or choose to stay quiet. Matter of fact, Pop already spoke about his opinion on Silver which was just Pop's admiration on how Silver handled the whole thing. Doc Rivers also said he choose not to comment on Morey himself but believes people will have to pay for the consequences of their words. I think judging Kerr and Pop as hypocrites itself is already an act of being hypocritical because you are measuring them with a rule that says: if you talk about this, you have to talk about that because that's my standard on you.

Put it in a different way. What if Kerr says something that will cause thousands of people to lose their jobs? (which is exactly what Morey did, unintentionally of course).

MrDollarBills · Post #1012 » by **MrDollarBills** » Wed Oct 9, 2019 3:18 pm

JellosJigglin wrote:
flavio_93 wrote:What is Steve kerrs and Pops opinion on this matter? Why are they so quiet? What about LeBron? Isn’t he the one who said he wouldn’t shut up and dribble. Why is he shutting up and dribbling when it comes to China?

Steve Kerr and pop have a big opinion on anything trump related but money talks and money is telling them to shut up and coach. Such hypocrites

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Kerr said he didn't know enough about the situation to comment on it. Lebron is in China, where they just arrested a Rockets fan for posting a picture of himself holding a lighter to a chinese flag. Now is not the time for Lebron to speak out against China. It's generally not a good idea to insult the country you're visiting.

It's another reason why I want the NBA to cancel the games and get the Nets and Lakers back home pronto. I don't think they're safe right now.

JeepCSC · Post #1013 » by **JeepCSC** » Wed Oct 9, 2019 3:18 pm

E-Balla wrote:No the unsaid corollary is that China's treatment of Han Chinese isn't bad so there's nothing to criticize there. Unless of course you know of some human rights issues concerning the government treatment of the accepted majority, in which case I'd love to read up on it. See how when you use your words you clear up misconceptions pretty simply?

Ok, so you are off in some bizarro world where the one-child policy, the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution, were never Party policy for the entire nation. The Han arguably had it worse under the one-child policy. And it wasn’t Uirghurs standing in front of tanks in Tiananmen Square. There is plenty of room to criticize the Party with how they treat all Chinese, Han and non-Han alike.

Promezclan · Post #1014 » by **Promezclan** » Wed Oct 9, 2019 3:19 pm

13th Man wrote:How about this analogy although I'm not sure of the equality in magnitude.

Speaking against their sovereignty is akin to making public racist remarks in America. How many examples of have we've witnessed of people getting fired or shunned for something they've expressed even years back? There are many examples of this in sports, entertainment and politics. Americans will do anything to try to bury you for something that you may have said or done 20 years back when it comes to race, but the Chinese are not allowed to react to something very sensitive to them right now?

Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

No one here is trying to change the behavior of China, that would obviously be hopeless.The only action we're evaluating right now is the NBA's response. Should the NBA punish its employee for personal opinions on his own time?

The comparison is, I guess, to Donald Sterling, who was pushed out due to his private racist comments. However, the difference is clear - the NBA ITSELF has a policy against racism, and it is therefore logical for them to enforce this. However, the NBA does not have its own policy against political protest, and it cannot be expected to enforce EVERYONE'S pet peeves. Saudi Arabia has an even stronger and more deeply-rooted societal hatred of female licentiousness, and they're obviously entitled, but that doesn't mean the NBA should enforce Saudi Arabia's preferences, and say, ban an assistant coach for posting a photo on Instagram of his girlfriend without a burka.

It's simply impossible for all private speech to be policed based upon the demands of all possible people, however heart-felt those demands are.

Sixersftw · Post #1015 » by **Sixersftw** » Wed Oct 9, 2019 3:20 pm

Dunno if this was posted but apparently the Sixers kicked out 2 people supporting Hong Kong last night.

https://6abc.com/sports/sixers-fan-supporting-hong-kong-ejected-from-preseason-game/5604293/

The NBA has a general "no politics" rule but its not a great look.

flavio_93 · Post #1016 » by **flavio_93** » Wed Oct 9, 2019 3:22 pm

ken6199 wrote:
flavio_93 wrote:What is Steve kerrs and Pops opinion on this matter? Why are they so quiet? What about LeBron? Isn’t he the one who said he wouldn’t shut up and dribble. Why is he shutting up and dribbling when it comes to China?

Steve Kerr and pop have a big opinion on anything trump related but money talks and money is telling them to shut up and coach. Such hypocrites

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Again, it's not as simple as "money talks", it's called consequence. If I see a homeless guy I will give him $1 without hesitation, but when I see that only 20 dollar bill in my wallet, I will pause for a second. I may or may not give it to him, depending on the situation (or simply my mood on that day). And can people accuse me for not having heart? Money talks right?

There is a thing called internet proportionality issue. Depending on the situation saying different things will lead to different consequences, so as a speaker, they absolutely have the right to choose to say something or choose to stay quiet. Matter of fact, Pop already spoke about his opinion on Silver which was just Pop's admiration on how Silver handled the whole thing. Doc Rivers also said he choose not to comment on Morey himself but believes people will have to pay for the consequences of their words. I think judging Kerr and Pop as hypocrites itself is already an act of being hypocritical because you are measuring them with a rule that says: if you talk about this, you have to talk about that because that's my standard on you.

Put it in a different way. What if Kerr says something that will cause thousands of people to lose their jobs? (which is exactly what Morey did, unintentionally of course).

So freedom and human rights don’t mean anything when money and jobs are involved? Steve Kerr and Pop are constantly talking about how things are bigger then basketball and that they shouldn’t just shut up and do their job. Is speaking out about a cause you believe in only the right thing when there are no consequences? If Kerr would get people fired for saying black lives matter should he have ignored that as well?

I understand your points and surprisingly I agree, I just find it hilarious that the only difference between when Kerr/pop try to be SJW and now is consequences.

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flavio_93 · Post #1017 » by **flavio_93** » Wed Oct 9, 2019 3:24 pm

JellosJigglin wrote:
flavio_93 wrote:What is Steve kerrs and Pops opinion on this matter? Why are they so quiet? What about LeBron? Isn’t he the one who said he wouldn’t shut up and dribble. Why is he shutting up and dribbling when it comes to China?

Steve Kerr and pop have a big opinion on anything trump related but money talks and money is telling them to shut up and coach. Such hypocrites

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Kerr said he didn't know enough about the situation to comment on it. Lebron is in China, where they just arrested a Rockets fan for posting a picture of himself holding a lighter to a chinese flag. Now is not the time for Lebron to speak out against China. It's generally not a good idea to insult the country you're visiting.

LeBron is not just a random fan. LeBron is LeBron. It’s not the same thing. LeBron is also the one who went at trump and said he would not just shut up and dribble but damn China is making him shut up and dribble easily.

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MotownMadness · Post #1018 » by **MotownMadness** » Wed Oct 9, 2019 3:24 pm

Sixersftw wrote:Dunno if this was posted but apparently the Sixers kicked out 2 people supporting Hong Kong last night.

https://6abc.com/sports/sixers-fan-supporting-hong-kong-ejected-from-preseason-game/5604293/

The NBA has a general "no politics" rule but its not a great look.

Gross

MrDollarBills · Post #1019 » by **MrDollarBills** » Wed Oct 9, 2019 3:24 pm

Sixersftw wrote:Dunno if this was posted but apparently the Sixers kicked out 2 people supporting Hong Kong last night.

https://6abc.com/sports/sixers-fan-supporting-hong-kong-ejected-from-preseason-game/5604293/

The NBA has a general "no politics" rule but its not a great look.

You're going to see more reactions like this if the NBA buckles against the Chinese government. A foreign nation dictating what American freedom of speech should be is going to cause a lot more trouble for the NBA at home than they might think.

E-Balla · Post #1020 » by **E-Balla** » Wed Oct 9, 2019 3:25 pm

JeepCSC wrote:
E-Balla wrote:No the unsaid corollary is that China's treatment of Han Chinese isn't bad so there's nothing to criticize there. Unless of course you know of some human rights issues concerning the government treatment of the accepted majority, in which case I'd love to read up on it. See how when you use your words you clear up misconceptions pretty simply?

Ok, so you are off in some bizarro world where the one-child policy, the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution, were never Party policy for the entire nation. The Han arguably had it worse under the one-child policy. And it wasn’t Uirghurs standing in front of tanks in Tiananmen Square. There isn’t plenty of room to criticize the Party with how they treat all Chinese, Han and non-Han alike.

I'm sorry are we discussing what China has done previously or discussing current criticism of China? Did I wake up in 1980?