2024 NBA FINALS: #1 Boston Celtics vs #5 Dallas Mavericks (Game 1: Thursday June 6th)

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Who wins the 2024 NBA FINALS?

Poll ended at Sat Jun 8, 2024 3:00 am

Celtics in 4
14
3%
Celtics in 5
60
12%
Celtics in 6
138
29%
Celtics in 7
38
8%
Mavericks in 4
14
3%
Mavericks in 5
19
4%
Mavericks in 6
161
33%
Mavericks in 7
40
8%
 
Total votes: 484

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Re: 2024 NBA FINALS: #1 Boston Celtics vs #5 Dallas Mavericks (Game 1: Thursday June 6th) 

Post#1001 » by ITYSL » Sun Jun 2, 2024 6:26 pm

The Corey's wrote:
CoP wrote:
The Corey's wrote:You don't actually believe that any singular person can influence another person on earth to make a basket do you? What scientific evidence do you have that would support such a claim? Like it almost feels like you think Boston is somehow gonna make Luka better by heckling him. Thats not a real thing :lol:

Yes, it is a real thing. The history of sports is filled with individuals and teams who were motivated by things such as heckling and being discounted. It heightens their drive and focus. I'm not sure how you could be a sports fans for decades and not agree with this. You don't need a peer-reviewed scientific paper to prove it.


It doesn't work like that. The ball goes in the net based on skill.

Not because some Joe schmoe hurt their feelings.

It seems like you don't really know how it works. There is a mental side that affects whether a player's shot goes in the net. Skill isn't just physical. If a player's focus is heightened and their head is in the right mindset, they are more likely to hit a shot. This is pretty basic stuff.
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Re: 2024 NBA FINALS: #1 Boston Celtics vs #5 Dallas Mavericks (Game 1: Thursday June 6th) 

Post#1002 » by Tyakack » Sun Jun 2, 2024 6:27 pm

The Corey's wrote:
Tyakack wrote:
Archx wrote:
It's still hillarious to me how Wolves reddit made a thread for the fans going to the game to not yell at Luka because it will only motivate him. And then this guy in the front row did exactly that and the rest is history :lol:

Celtics toxic fans are probably going to make him go Super Saiyan.


What I find even more hilarious is people that think this makes any difference at all. It's the NBA Playoffs/finals. If you need any extra motivation that is not a good sign.

If Luka goes super saiyan its not gonna be because some fan in the front row called him a bad name.


I'll say it. Luka probably has to average over 40 to win that series.


I think Luka and Kyrie having a monster series is the bare minimum they need to have happen for a chance to win. I expect Luka to go off. I'm not really worried about that.
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Re: 2024 NBA FINALS: #1 Boston Celtics vs #5 Dallas Mavericks (Game 1: Thursday June 6th) 

Post#1003 » by The Corey's » Sun Jun 2, 2024 6:32 pm

CoP wrote:
The Corey's wrote:
CoP wrote:Yes, it is a real thing. The history of sports is filled with individuals and teams who were motivated by things such as heckling and being discounted. It heightens their drive and focus. I'm not sure how you could be a sports fans for decades and not agree with this. You don't need a peer-reviewed scientific paper to prove it.


It doesn't work like that. The ball goes in the net based on skill.

Not because some Joe schmoe hurt their feelings.

It seems like you don't really know how it works. There is a mental side that affects whether a player's shot goes in the net. Skill isn't just physical. If a player's focus is heightened and their head is in the right mindset, they are more likely to hit a shot. This is pretty basic stuff.


Actually I think it's tou who doesn't know how it works.

The idea that Luka is somehow not motivated enough to win the finals but some dumb **** rich **** on the sidelines says something to him is enough to make him go from indifferent to going for the dagger is laughable.

The Celtics will be in his ear way more than any of the fans will be.
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Re: 2024 NBA FINALS: #1 Boston Celtics vs #5 Dallas Mavericks (Game 1: Thursday June 6th) 

Post#1004 » by ITYSL » Sun Jun 2, 2024 6:51 pm

The Corey's wrote:
CoP wrote:
The Corey's wrote:
It doesn't work like that. The ball goes in the net based on skill.

Not because some Joe schmoe hurt their feelings.

It seems like you don't really know how it works. There is a mental side that affects whether a player's shot goes in the net. Skill isn't just physical. If a player's focus is heightened and their head is in the right mindset, they are more likely to hit a shot. This is pretty basic stuff.


Actually I think it's tou who doesn't know how it works.

The idea that Luka is somehow not motivated enough to win the finals but some dumb **** rich **** on the sidelines says something to him is enough to make him go from indifferent to going for the dagger is laughable.

The Celtics will be in his ear way more than any of the fans will be.

Eh, you say that, but history says otherwise. Tom Brady is a prime example of someone who carried the 6th round pick narrative with him his entire career, and who admitted that it provided him added motivation for proving people wrong.
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Re: 2024 NBA FINALS: #1 Boston Celtics vs #5 Dallas Mavericks (Game 1: Thursday June 6th) 

Post#1005 » by Sweet Serenity » Sun Jun 2, 2024 7:04 pm

Mr B wrote:
RoyceDa59 wrote:Celtics have the best player and 3rd best player.

Celtics have 5 of the top 7 players, though, realistically.

The Kyrie and Porzingis narratives make this a very interesting series.

In the end I think Celtics outlast the Mavs and beat them in 7.

Sorry to break it to you but the Mavs have the 2 best players in the series on their team.


I seriously question your IQ if you think Kyrie Irving is better than Jayson Tatum.
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Re: 2024 NBA FINALS: #1 Boston Celtics vs #5 Dallas Mavericks (Game 1: Thursday June 6th) 

Post#1006 » by The Corey's » Sun Jun 2, 2024 7:05 pm

Sweet Serenity wrote:
Mr B wrote:
RoyceDa59 wrote:Celtics have the best player and 3rd best player.

Celtics have 5 of the top 7 players, though, realistically.

The Kyrie and Porzingis narratives make this a very interesting series.

In the end I think Celtics outlast the Mavs and beat them in 7.

Sorry to break it to you but the Mavs have the 2 best players in the series on their team.


I seriously question your IQ if you think Kyrie Irving is better than Jayson Tatum.


Tatum sucks

* non Celtic fans
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Re: 2024 NBA FINALS: #1 Boston Celtics vs #5 Dallas Mavericks (Game 1: Thursday June 6th) 

Post#1007 » by Johnny Firpo » Sun Jun 2, 2024 7:07 pm

ajones9219 wrote:
Mr B wrote:
ajones9219 wrote:
TBF Mavs fans are saying literally every metric we can use to compare these teams isn't accurate or relevant because they basically all favor the Celtics :lol:

No it’s because the Mavs are a completely different team than they were for 2/3 of the season. They are also playing a much better than they were at the start of the playoffs. So trying to use any metric from the regular season is irrelevant. This is not the same Mavs team that Boston faced at any point during the season.


That isn't how the NBA works, especially when your core is literally the same. If you TRULY believe that literally no metrics are useful to compare the two teams then just go back to the Mavs board and come back once the games start. I'm not saying this to be mean, but literally what is the point of discussing the series if you're just going to say any discussion topics are just irrelevant.

I personally think any metrics are both fair game and relevant if Kyrie and Luka were on the floor.


There are definitely useful metrics, and it would start with looking at everything from the trade onward until the final, but so far I haven't really seen those stats. Looking at the two teams' playoff metrics could also tell us something, but so far most of what I've seen was full regular season stats vs. full regular season stats.
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Re: 2024 NBA FINALS: #1 Boston Celtics vs #5 Dallas Mavericks (Game 1: Thursday June 6th) 

Post#1008 » by Exp0sed » Sun Jun 2, 2024 7:16 pm

I think the C's are going to have an issue with Horford, I know that sounds strange and I'm actually a bigger Horford fan that most, I think he was underrated in his prime. Luka can abuse Horford real bad and Kidd is going to run alot of plays designed to get Luka into that kind of action, I think we're gonna see alot of that type of possesion and would be interseting to see how Mazulla counters that

and inside, Gafford and Lively are going to be very hard for a 38 year old Horford to contain inside. as smart and experienced as he is, it's a tough matchup for him on the offensive boards and in transition as well as down low. Horford can do great (relative to other players) against a guy like Embiitch, whose just a low i.q player looking to get phantom foul calls. he can outsmart him, the Mavs duo are just brute force, hops and mobility that's alot for an almost 40 year old Horford to contend with

the non-KP mins, are something the C's are going to have to work out
on the flip side, they're so loaded that on paper they should be winning the KP mins, assuming he's good to go
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Re: 2024 NBA FINALS: #1 Boston Celtics vs #5 Dallas Mavericks (Game 1: Thursday June 6th) 

Post#1009 » by AlexanderRight » Sun Jun 2, 2024 7:17 pm

Something tells me Porzingis gon' unleash some built up feelings and frustrations on Luka and the Mavs. If he's healthy and bringin' that heat, Boston in 6. If he's not, Mavs in 7.
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Re: 2024 NBA FINALS: #1 Boston Celtics vs #5 Dallas Mavericks (Game 1: Thursday June 6th) 

Post#1010 » by Riverwalk2021 » Sun Jun 2, 2024 7:21 pm

With Porzingis on track to start game 1, I have to revise my pick from Boston in 5 or 6 to Celtics in 4. The only thing in question now is what pathetic excuse Celtic haters will make to minimize this championship after they broomstick the over matched Mavs? :lol:
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Re: 2024 NBA FINALS: #1 Boston Celtics vs #5 Dallas Mavericks (Game 1: Thursday June 6th) 

Post#1011 » by Exp0sed » Sun Jun 2, 2024 7:24 pm

AlexanderRight wrote:Something tells me Porzingis gon' unleash some built up feelings and frustrations on Luka and the Mavs. If he's healthy and bringin' that heat, Boston in 6. If he's not, Mavs in 7.


idk, his appearences on popular podcasts the last year or two where he opened up quite a bit about that Dallas stint, he didn't seem to be harboring bad blood, animosity or whatever towards Luka or the organization and he came off as very sincere

it was more like, "it just didn't work out" vibe but yeah, probably a bit of a chip on his shoulder either way like - hey, u didn't want me? look at me now snatching your coveted rings

I doubt he'll be fired up in particular because of his Mavs stint, I think being in the finals will be responisble for most of his motivation
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Re: 2024 NBA FINALS: #1 Boston Celtics vs #5 Dallas Mavericks (Game 1: Thursday June 6th) 

Post#1012 » by ajones9219 » Sun Jun 2, 2024 7:33 pm

Johnny Firpo wrote:
ajones9219 wrote:
Mr B wrote:No it’s because the Mavs are a completely different team than they were for 2/3 of the season. They are also playing a much better than they were at the start of the playoffs. So trying to use any metric from the regular season is irrelevant. This is not the same Mavs team that Boston faced at any point during the season.


That isn't how the NBA works, especially when your core is literally the same. If you TRULY believe that literally no metrics are useful to compare the two teams then just go back to the Mavs board and come back once the games start. I'm not saying this to be mean, but literally what is the point of discussing the series if you're just going to say any discussion topics are just irrelevant.

I personally think any metrics are both fair game and relevant if Kyrie and Luka were on the floor.


There are definitely useful metrics, and it would start with looking at everything from the trade onward until the final, but so far I haven't really seen those stats. Looking at the two teams' playoff metrics could also tell us something, but so far most of what I've seen was full regular season stats vs. full regular season stats.


I posted this early in this thread and got about 5 replies as to why these numbers weren't relevant. The numbers actually make perfect sense to the eye test. Both Boston and Dallas got better post-deadline. Boston is still statistically the better team and you can even see the little dip in the playoffs once we lose Porzingis.

Full RS comparison:

Boston: 122.2 OFFRTG/110.6 DEFRTG/11.7 NETRTG
Dallas: 117.0 OFFRTG/114.9 DEFRTG/2.1 NETRTG

Post Deadline RS:
Boston: 125.5 OFFRTG/110.6 DEFRTG/14.6 NETRTG
Dallas: 115.8 OFFRTG/112.1 DEFRTG/3.7 NETRTG

Playoffs:
Boston: 119.6 OFFRTG/108.7 DEFRTG/10.8 NETRTG
Dallas: 115.2 OFFRTG/111.1 DEFRTG/4.1 NETRTG

Boston Rankings in playoffs: 2nd in OFFRTG/ 3rd in DEFRTG/ and 1st in NETRTG
Dallas Ranking in playoffs: 6th in OFFRTG/ 7th in DEFRTG/ 4th in NETRTG

H2H obviously favors Boston post trade deadline too with the 1 game being a 28 point Boston win.

I also would love to make it known that I find all the posts just saying LOLz Boston in 4 or Mavs in 4. Luka good, Tatum bad without providing data are completely absurd and just derail the conversations. I like to believe that I am presenting my opinions on the series in good faith just due to how the hard numbers shake out.
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Re: 2024 NBA FINALS: #1 Boston Celtics vs #5 Dallas Mavericks (Game 1: Thursday June 6th) 

Post#1013 » by scrabbarista » Sun Jun 2, 2024 7:45 pm

Popping in to comment on the "legacy" stakes for this Finals. Probably the first time in a long time that we've had a Finals without a single player who currently belonged in the historical top seventy-five. Pretty weird!

Among many silly results, the 2023 Realgm Top 100 put Tatum over Doncic for their careers so far. Here's where I have the relevant players heading into the Finals: [projected movement is based on guess-timations]

78th - Luka Doncic - With a loss, he doesn't get much movement, but with a win, I probably bump him 25-30 spots. Big stakes!

100th - Kyrie Irving - A win for Dallas probably pushes Irving about 15 spots higher.


102nd - Jrue Holiday - A lot of wiggle-room here, but a win might give him another 5 spots.

112th - Jayson Tatum - Tatum is at an inflection point where even a loss probably gives him another 10 spots. With a win, depending on how things play out, he could see a jump of something like 50 25-30 spots.

118th - Al Horford - A win might give Horford another 25 spots! At any rate, he has a shot at squeezing into the top 100.

276th - Jaylen Brown - A Boston win might put Brown's ranking at around 200th.

335th - Kristaps Porzingis - If Boston wins, KP probably moves comfortably into the top 300.

N/A because I haven't input his numbers yet - Derrick White.
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Re: 2024 NBA FINALS: #1 Boston Celtics vs #5 Dallas Mavericks (Game 1: Thursday June 6th) 

Post#1014 » by Johnny Firpo » Sun Jun 2, 2024 8:14 pm

ajones9219 wrote:
Johnny Firpo wrote:
ajones9219 wrote:
That isn't how the NBA works, especially when your core is literally the same. If you TRULY believe that literally no metrics are useful to compare the two teams then just go back to the Mavs board and come back once the games start. I'm not saying this to be mean, but literally what is the point of discussing the series if you're just going to say any discussion topics are just irrelevant.

I personally think any metrics are both fair game and relevant if Kyrie and Luka were on the floor.


There are definitely useful metrics, and it would start with looking at everything from the trade onward until the final, but so far I haven't really seen those stats. Looking at the two teams' playoff metrics could also tell us something, but so far most of what I've seen was full regular season stats vs. full regular season stats.


I posted this early in this thread and got about 5 replies as to why these numbers weren't relevant. The numbers actually make perfect sense to the eye test. Both Boston and Dallas got better post-deadline. Boston is still statistically the better team and you can even see the little dip in the playoffs once we lose Porzingis.

Full RS comparison:

Boston: 122.2 OFFRTG/110.6 DEFRTG/11.7 NETRTG
Dallas: 117.0 OFFRTG/114.9 DEFRTG/2.1 NETRTG

Post Deadline RS:
Boston: 125.5 OFFRTG/110.6 DEFRTG/14.6 NETRTG
Dallas: 115.8 OFFRTG/112.1 DEFRTG/3.7 NETRTG

Playoffs:
Boston: 119.6 OFFRTG/108.7 DEFRTG/10.8 NETRTG
Dallas: 115.2 OFFRTG/111.1 DEFRTG/4.1 NETRTG

Boston Rankings in playoffs: 2nd in OFFRTG/ 3rd in DEFRTG/ and 1st in NETRTG
Dallas Ranking in playoffs: 6th in OFFRTG/ 7th in DEFRTG/ 4th in NETRTG

H2H obviously favors Boston post trade deadline too with the 1 game being a 28 point Boston win.

I also would love to make it known that I find all the posts just saying LOLz Boston in 4 or Mavs in 4. Luka good, Tatum bad without providing data are completely absurd and just derail the conversations. I like to believe that I am presenting my opinions on the series in good faith just due to how the hard numbers shake out.


That's a little bit better, yeah, thank you. I still want to provide a little more context here, if you don't mind. When we played you guys post trade, we were actually in the middle of a terrible slid. During those roughly two weeks, we surrendered 133 to the Pacers, 121 to the Cavs, 125 to the Raptors, 120 to Philly, 137 to the Pacers, and 138 to you, within like 10 days or something like that. The team clearly didn't work then, and watching all the Mavs games this year, something has definitely clicked after that, and I feel this is a different team compared to that Mavs team. Obviously the same roster, and obviously, there is always a chance to get back to a lesser form, so I'm not entirely sure it cannot happen, it would just surprise me at this point, after this run, in a finals.

I am also hoping that the difference in the playoff net rating, which is no doubt significant, is somewhat of a result of the difference of the opponents. I don't really buy into the "Celtics had an easy road" narrative, because it's never easy to make the finals, and clearly the Celtics had to win some clutch games to get there. Teams can always muck it up, and you simply end up in low scoring games sometimes, even if you have the best offense. And when that happened, the Celtics still won, so clearly they are very, very good. Anyway, I think this series will come down how the Celtics defend the pick&roll, they rarely blitz, and I'm not entirely sure this will be a good idea against the Mavs (never putting two on the ball).

And on the other end, how will the Mavs defend the three point line? Dallas was kind of middle of the pack during the regular season, and kind of middle of the pack in the playoffs too, I think that might not be enough, and they will have to switch it up. Closing down the paint worked against OKC and the T-Wolves, but it didn't really work against the Clippers, and the Celtics are an even better shooting team. Therefore, we might see more Maxi and small ball from the Mavs this series, especially if the Celtics were to come out on fire and make a bunch of threes, and win game 1. So I think the Celtics might have to switch up their pick & roll D, especially if KP isn't 100%, which I kind of expect (he always needed a lot of time to get back into form after injuries), and I definitely feel we'll have to switch up our 3PT% defense, and be more aggressive on closeouts.
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Re: 2024 NBA FINALS: #1 Boston Celtics vs #5 Dallas Mavericks (Game 1: Thursday June 6th) 

Post#1015 » by Woodsanity » Sun Jun 2, 2024 8:24 pm

scrabbarista wrote:Popping in to comment on the "legacy" stakes for this Finals. Probably the first time in a long time that we've had a Finals without a single player who currently belonged in the historical top seventy-five. Pretty weird!

Among many silly results, the 2023 Realgm Top 100 put Tatum over Doncic for their careers so far. Here's where I have the relevant players heading into the Finals: [projected movement is based on guess-timations]

78th - Luka Doncic - With a loss, he doesn't get much movement, but with a win, I probably bump him 25-30 spots. Big stakes!

100th - Kyrie Irving - A win for Dallas probably pushes Irving about 15 spots higher.


102nd - Jrue Holiday - A lot of wiggle-room here, but a win might give him another 5 spots.

112th - Jayson Tatum - Tatum is at an inflection point where even a loss probably gives him another 10 spots. With a win, depending on how things play out, he could see a jump of something like 50 spots.

118th - Al Horford - A win might give Horford another 25 spots! At any rate, he has a shot at squeezing into the top 100.

276th - Jaylen Brown - A Boston win might put Brown's ranking at around 200th.

335th - Kristaps Porzingis - If Boston wins, KP probably moves comfortably into the top 300.

N/A because I haven't input his numbers yet - Derrick White.


Why does Luka not move with a loss but Tatum move 10 spots with a loss?

Luka just made his first finals. Tatum has made one before and his run so far hasn't been particularly impressive.
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Re: 2024 NBA FINALS: #1 Boston Celtics vs #5 Dallas Mavericks (Game 1: Thursday June 6th) 

Post#1016 » by bisme37 » Sun Jun 2, 2024 8:25 pm

There's some stuff happening in the NBA app this week if anyone's interested...

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Re: 2024 NBA FINALS: #1 Boston Celtics vs #5 Dallas Mavericks (Game 1: Thursday June 6th) 

Post#1017 » by ajones9219 » Sun Jun 2, 2024 8:42 pm

Johnny Firpo wrote:
ajones9219 wrote:
Johnny Firpo wrote:
There are definitely useful metrics, and it would start with looking at everything from the trade onward until the final, but so far I haven't really seen those stats. Looking at the two teams' playoff metrics could also tell us something, but so far most of what I've seen was full regular season stats vs. full regular season stats.


I posted this early in this thread and got about 5 replies as to why these numbers weren't relevant. The numbers actually make perfect sense to the eye test. Both Boston and Dallas got better post-deadline. Boston is still statistically the better team and you can even see the little dip in the playoffs once we lose Porzingis.

Full RS comparison:

Boston: 122.2 OFFRTG/110.6 DEFRTG/11.7 NETRTG
Dallas: 117.0 OFFRTG/114.9 DEFRTG/2.1 NETRTG

Post Deadline RS:
Boston: 125.5 OFFRTG/110.6 DEFRTG/14.6 NETRTG
Dallas: 115.8 OFFRTG/112.1 DEFRTG/3.7 NETRTG

Playoffs:
Boston: 119.6 OFFRTG/108.7 DEFRTG/10.8 NETRTG
Dallas: 115.2 OFFRTG/111.1 DEFRTG/4.1 NETRTG

Boston Rankings in playoffs: 2nd in OFFRTG/ 3rd in DEFRTG/ and 1st in NETRTG
Dallas Ranking in playoffs: 6th in OFFRTG/ 7th in DEFRTG/ 4th in NETRTG

H2H obviously favors Boston post trade deadline too with the 1 game being a 28 point Boston win.

I also would love to make it known that I find all the posts just saying LOLz Boston in 4 or Mavs in 4. Luka good, Tatum bad without providing data are completely absurd and just derail the conversations. I like to believe that I am presenting my opinions on the series in good faith just due to how the hard numbers shake out.


That's a little bit better, yeah, thank you. I still want to provide a little more context here, if you don't mind. When we played you guys post trade, we were actually in the middle of a terrible slid. During those roughly two weeks, we surrendered 133 to the Pacers, 121 to the Cavs, 125 to the Raptors, 120 to Philly, 137 to the Pacers, and 138 to you, within like 10 days or something like that. The team clearly didn't work then, and watching all the Mavs games this year, something has definitely clicked after that, and I feel this is a different team compared to that Mavs team. Obviously the same roster, and obviously, there is always a chance to get back to a lesser form, so I'm not entirely sure it cannot happen, it would just surprise me at this point, after this run, in a finals.

I am also hoping that the difference in the playoff net rating, which is no doubt significant, is somewhat of a result of the difference of the opponents. I don't really buy into the "Celtics had an easy road" narrative, because it's never easy to make the finals, and clearly the Celtics had to win some clutch games to get there. Teams can always muck it up, and you simply end up in low scoring games sometimes, even if you have the best offense. And when that happened, the Celtics still won, so clearly they are very, very good. Anyway, I think this series will come down how the Celtics defend the pick&roll, they rarely blitz, and I'm not entirely sure this will be a good idea against the Mavs (never putting two on the ball).

And on the other end, how will the Mavs defend the three point line? Dallas was kind of middle of the pack during the regular season, and kind of middle of the pack in the playoffs too, I think that might not be enough, and they will have to switch it up. Closing down the paint worked against OKC and the T-Wolves, but it didn't really work against the Clippers, and the Celtics are an ever better shooting team. Therefore, we might see more Maxi and small ball from the Mavs this series, especially if the Celtics were to come out on fire and make a bunch of threes, and win game 1. So I think the Celtics might have to switch up their pick & roll D, especially if KP isn't 100%, which I kind of expect (he always needed a lot of time to get back into form after injuries), and I definitely feel we'll have to switch up our 3PT% defense, and be more aggressive on closeouts.


Totally understand that context. However, Luka put up 37/12/11, and Kyrie put up 19. Realistically can the Mavs play better or Boston play worse? Sure, but it was also 28 point game.

Boston probably won't consistently shoot like 49% from 3 tbf, but the shot quality was excellent because as you point out, Dallas isn't great guarding the 3. The plan so far this postseason has been to surrender 3s from bad shooters but Boston doesn't have any (none that will see the floor anyway).

Again I'm being as respectful as I can and trying to not make any statements that don't have statistical backing.
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Re: 2024 NBA FINALS: #1 Boston Celtics vs #5 Dallas Mavericks (Game 1: Thursday June 6th) 

Post#1018 » by reload141 » Sun Jun 2, 2024 8:47 pm

BeiBeau wrote:
Jaqua92 wrote:What's interesting here is that Tatum has low-key been a top 3 player all playoffs. The only thing sub standard is his 3 point shooting right now. 29%.

He's still giving us 26/10/6 this post season. However, if his 3 point shooting returns to "average", or rather, if he was hitting the 3 at a normal clip this post season, he'd be giving us 28/10/6 on 60%ts this post season.

He's also doing that with elite defense. If Tatum's 3pt shot returns to his norm, there's a good shot he gives the Mavs a good 29/10/6 this series.

He's due for good 3pt shooting, and if he gets his rhythm going even just above average this series, he's gonna give the Celtics like 30/10/6 with elite defense.

With Doncic a little bit injured, Tatum WILL outplay him a few games if his 3pt shot comes back.

Hauser has also been ice cold from 3. And he's a 40% 3pt shooter.


Luka
Shai
Jokic
Mitchell
Brunson

There is no world in which Tatum has been a top 3 player in the playoffs.


There are only two players left who are contending, that’s Luka and Tatum.

Take a seat champ.
Broadcaster
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Re: 2024 NBA FINALS: #1 Boston Celtics vs #5 Dallas Mavericks (Game 1: Thursday June 6th) 

Post#1019 » by Broadcaster » Sun Jun 2, 2024 8:50 pm

The Corey's wrote:
Broadcaster wrote:
The Corey's wrote:
The Mavs aren't good enough to beat the Celtics. There isn't a reasonable person on earth who thinks that.

This ya but attitude going one way is old dawg.


Hell of an opinion you have there.


Finally. Someone who acknowledged it as a opinion.


I didn’t say I agreed with it.
Bob8
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Re: 2024 NBA FINALS: #1 Boston Celtics vs #5 Dallas Mavericks (Game 1: Thursday June 6th) 

Post#1020 » by Bob8 » Sun Jun 2, 2024 9:05 pm

ajones9219 wrote:
Johnny Firpo wrote:
ajones9219 wrote:
I posted this early in this thread and got about 5 replies as to why these numbers weren't relevant. The numbers actually make perfect sense to the eye test. Both Boston and Dallas got better post-deadline. Boston is still statistically the better team and you can even see the little dip in the playoffs once we lose Porzingis.

Full RS comparison:

Boston: 122.2 OFFRTG/110.6 DEFRTG/11.7 NETRTG
Dallas: 117.0 OFFRTG/114.9 DEFRTG/2.1 NETRTG

Post Deadline RS:
Boston: 125.5 OFFRTG/110.6 DEFRTG/14.6 NETRTG
Dallas: 115.8 OFFRTG/112.1 DEFRTG/3.7 NETRTG

Playoffs:
Boston: 119.6 OFFRTG/108.7 DEFRTG/10.8 NETRTG
Dallas: 115.2 OFFRTG/111.1 DEFRTG/4.1 NETRTG

Boston Rankings in playoffs: 2nd in OFFRTG/ 3rd in DEFRTG/ and 1st in NETRTG
Dallas Ranking in playoffs: 6th in OFFRTG/ 7th in DEFRTG/ 4th in NETRTG

H2H obviously favors Boston post trade deadline too with the 1 game being a 28 point Boston win.

I also would love to make it known that I find all the posts just saying LOLz Boston in 4 or Mavs in 4. Luka good, Tatum bad without providing data are completely absurd and just derail the conversations. I like to believe that I am presenting my opinions on the series in good faith just due to how the hard numbers shake out.


That's a little bit better, yeah, thank you. I still want to provide a little more context here, if you don't mind. When we played you guys post trade, we were actually in the middle of a terrible slid. During those roughly two weeks, we surrendered 133 to the Pacers, 121 to the Cavs, 125 to the Raptors, 120 to Philly, 137 to the Pacers, and 138 to you, within like 10 days or something like that. The team clearly didn't work then, and watching all the Mavs games this year, something has definitely clicked after that, and I feel this is a different team compared to that Mavs team. Obviously the same roster, and obviously, there is always a chance to get back to a lesser form, so I'm not entirely sure it cannot happen, it would just surprise me at this point, after this run, in a finals.

I am also hoping that the difference in the playoff net rating, which is no doubt significant, is somewhat of a result of the difference of the opponents. I don't really buy into the "Celtics had an easy road" narrative, because it's never easy to make the finals, and clearly the Celtics had to win some clutch games to get there. Teams can always muck it up, and you simply end up in low scoring games sometimes, even if you have the best offense. And when that happened, the Celtics still won, so clearly they are very, very good. Anyway, I think this series will come down how the Celtics defend the pick&roll, they rarely blitz, and I'm not entirely sure this will be a good idea against the Mavs (never putting two on the ball).

And on the other end, how will the Mavs defend the three point line? Dallas was kind of middle of the pack during the regular season, and kind of middle of the pack in the playoffs too, I think that might not be enough, and they will have to switch it up. Closing down the paint worked against OKC and the T-Wolves, but it didn't really work against the Clippers, and the Celtics are an ever better shooting team. Therefore, we might see more Maxi and small ball from the Mavs this series, especially if the Celtics were to come out on fire and make a bunch of threes, and win game 1. So I think the Celtics might have to switch up their pick & roll D, especially if KP isn't 100%, which I kind of expect (he always needed a lot of time to get back into form after injuries), and I definitely feel we'll have to switch up our 3PT% defense, and be more aggressive on closeouts.


Totally understand that context. However, Luka put up 37/12/11, and Kyrie put up 19. Realistically can the Mavs play better or Boston play worse? Sure, but it was also 28 point game.

Boston probably won't consistently shoot like 49% from 3 tbf, but the shot quality was excellent because as you point out, Dallas isn't great guarding the 3. The plan so far this postseason has been to surrender 3s from bad shooters but Boston doesn't have any (none that will see the floor anyway).

Again I'm being as respectful as I can and trying to not make any statements that don't have statistical backing.


If Celtics shoot near 50% for 3, there won't be a series. But luckily Celtics are shooting worse from 3 than Mavs in playoffs and are making just 2 3-pointers more than Mavs. Maybe Mavs are not the best perimeter defenders, but I kinda doubt Celtics will made 20 3s per game, shooting 50%.

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