Tatum VS Luka

[sam_I_am]

If narrative 3/17 is a great game wins, we can't debate about anything, because every Tatum's game will be great. I see no point in continuing this.

The narrative is that Tatum had his worst game of the playoffs missing shots he usually makes easily but still managed to destroy the 3 time champs on their home court where they were 9-0.

[ITYSL]

If narrative 3/17 is a great game wins, we can't debate about anything, because every Tatum's game will be great. I see no point in continuing this.

Here's a simple question for you. Is your judgment of a player's game based only on his shooting percentage? Because that is a really simplistic way of judging a player's game.

I do not think that Tatum had a great game. The reason I think that is because he had a horrible shooting night. However, I don't think he had a horrible game either. The reason I think that is because he managed double teams well, had a bunch of assists with few turnovers, and played at a high level defensively.

When this thread was bumped after Game 1, it was done to show how bad of a game Tatum had. But overall he had a decent game - horrible shooting but great playmaking and great defense.

[CobraCommander]

Yep, 13 assists and 2 TO in a finals debut is extremely impressive. The ability to dominate the game in other areas like defense and playmaking when his shot isnt failling is what seperates players from good to great. You know who did this a lot too.. his idol Kobe. He really could be the Kobe of this generation IMO.

100000% agree....you can respect how good Tatum is and has been without diminishing anyone else. Tatum is a monster and if they win a ring he is in the mvp convo over everyone but Giannis and Jokic

You're impressed with 3/17 shooting?

Kobe?

I’m more impressed when someone finds a way to help their team win when they’re shot isn’t falling. You remember when Luka went 3-13 for 3 in game 5 against mavs - I think it would have been better for him to see those step back 3s not falling and punish the GSW guards in the post instead of taking more steps backs… Luka will Learn- like Tatum clearly has

[CobraCommander]

Read on Twitter

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Boston is only where they are because of two way play..._I agree that Luka would not make them better...you can’t just swap a 6’10” in shape dude that can give you 46 against Giannis and D up Giannis with a guy that could give you 40 as well but not stop KD or Giannis or Butler if the switch came. Again doesn’t make Tatum better per say...just means the team built around Tatum is built on defense.


Funny thing is the thing that made Dallas better was defense too... so the better question would be - would DALLAS be in the finals with Tatum because their defense would be that much better ...

What do you think happens with Mavs D, if they have DPOY and rim protector instead Brunson/Powell?

Tatum wouldn't change anything, because they still couldn't defend and would rebound even worse. 0:4 against Suns.

I think the fact that Luka couldn’t guard Poole, Wiggins, Otto, Kuminga, Klay or curry on the perimeter or Looney or Dray in the post and Tatum at 6’10” can do alllll of that at some point in a game makes a huge difference- stop being ridiculous- Luka himself said he needs to work on defense - and Tatum is a good defender -

Look I hate Boston too - but Tatum is good on both ends

[Jkam31]

I keep seeing posts talking about swapping the two and how Luka would be in the same position if he was on the Celtics, but that logic is flawed. One the biggest strengths of the current team, and the reason they're in the finals is the ability to switch on defense. The whole defensive system breaks down with Luka in place of Tatum. Now, would the increase in offensive output mitigate the loss of defense? Maybe, but it's not an absolute.

Comical

[Jkam31]

If narrative 3/17 is a great game wins, we can't debate about anything, because every Tatum's game will be great. I see no point in continuing this.

Dude had an all time great performance stop hating

[Bob8]

If narrative 3/17 is a great game wins, we can't debate about anything, because every Tatum's game will be great. I see no point in continuing this.

Here's a simple question for you. Is your judgment of a player's game based only on his shooting percentage? Because that is a really simplistic way of judging a player's game.

I do not think that Tatum had a great game. The reason I think that is because he had a horrible shooting night. However, I don't think he had a horrible game either. The reason I think that is because he managed double teams well, had a bunch of assists with few turnovers, and played at a high level defensively.

When this thread was bumped after Game 1, it was done to show how bad of a game Tatum had. But overall he had a decent game - horrible shooting but great playmaking and great defense.

I have a simple question too. Do you believe that average shooters shooting 65% for 3 was something that happens only now and then or the reason for this insane % was Tatum's great playmaking? If they continue to shoot like that, it's game over for GSW. 0:4.

Can you please rank Celtics' players in game 1?

Rewatch Q4, where Celtics turned game around. There you will find true heroes.

It was not only 12 points on horrible shooting, it was 0 points in last 16 minutes.

If we compare Curry vs. Tatum, Steph totally outplayed Tatum, but was -9, because other Celtics outplayed Warriors.

[Bob8]

Boston is only where they are because of two way play..._I agree that Luka would not make them better...you can’t just swap a 6’10” in shape dude that can give you 46 against Giannis and D up Giannis with a guy that could give you 40 as well but not stop KD or Giannis or Butler if the switch came. Again doesn’t make Tatum better per say...just means the team built around Tatum is built on defense.


Funny thing is the thing that made Dallas better was defense too... so the better question would be - would DALLAS be in the finals with Tatum because their defense would be that much better ...

What do you think happens with Mavs D, if they have DPOY and rim protector instead Brunson/Powell?

Tatum wouldn't change anything, because they still couldn't defend and would rebound even worse. 0:4 against Suns.

I think the fact that Luka couldn’t guard Poole, Wiggins, Otto, Kuminga, Klay or curry on the perimeter or Looney or Dray in the post and Tatum at 6’10” can do alllll of that at some point in a game makes a huge difference- stop being ridiculous- Luka himself said he needs to work on defense - and Tatum is a good defender -

Look I hate Boston too - but Tatum is good on both ends

So Tatum would have defended all players and rebounded like he never had before? Because Powell still wouldn't protect the rim and rebound and Brunson wouldn't change in DPOY.

[Pennebaker]

Boston is only where they are because of two way play..._I agree that Luka would not make them better...you can’t just swap a 6’10” in shape dude that can give you 46 against Giannis and D up Giannis with a guy that could give you 40 as well but not stop KD or Giannis or Butler if the switch came. Again doesn’t make Tatum better per say...just means the team built around Tatum is built on defense.


Funny thing is the thing that made Dallas better was defense too... so the better question would be - would DALLAS be in the finals with Tatum because their defense would be that much better ...

What do you think happens with Mavs D, if they have DPOY and rim protector instead Brunson/Powell?

Tatum wouldn't change anything, because they still couldn't defend and would rebound even worse. 0:4 against Suns.

I think the fact that Luka couldn’t guard Poole, Wiggins, Otto, Kuminga, Klay or curry on the perimeter or Looney or Dray in the post and Tatum at 6’10” can do alllll of that at some point in a game makes a huge difference- stop being ridiculous- Luka himself said he needs to work on defense - and Tatum is a good defender -

Look I hate Boston too - but Tatum is good on both ends

Being good at both ends is somewhat overrated. Remember what league we're talking about. They didn't start honoring defense until the 1980s. DPOY is nowhere near as respected as MVP and you don't even need to play a lick of defense to win MVP. So it goes without saying that Tatum would be more of a problem if he was better offensively. He'd also make more money and be more of a superstar and more successful in general. The way Tatum is balanced right now he has the look of a solid #2 option on a great team.

[Luke Skyowner]

If narrative 3/17 is a great game wins, we can't debate about anything, because every Tatum's game will be great. I see no point in continuing this.

The narrative is that Tatum had his worst game of the playoffs missing shots he usually makes easily but still managed to destroy the 3 time champs on their home court where they were 9-0.

making it sound like he did it alone, was he even in top 3 of his own team that game? But i get you have narrative to push so don't let me stop you.

[DroseReturnChi]

If narrative 3/17 is a great game wins, we can't debate about anything, because every Tatum's game will be great. I see no point in continuing this.

The narrative is that Tatum had his worst game of the playoffs missing shots he usually makes easily but still managed to destroy the 3 time champs on their home court where they were 9-0.

tatum didnt destroy anyone. he destroyed his own team nearly before brown batman saved his ass. tatum wasnt even best player on his team and curry destroyed him individual performance wise.

[SelfishPlayer]

What do you think happens with Mavs D, if they have DPOY and rim protector instead Brunson/Powell?

Tatum wouldn't change anything, because they still couldn't defend and would rebound even worse. 0:4 against Suns.

I think the fact that Luka couldn’t guard Poole, Wiggins, Otto, Kuminga, Klay or curry on the perimeter or Looney or Dray in the post and Tatum at 6’10” can do alllll of that at some point in a game makes a huge difference- stop being ridiculous- Luka himself said he needs to work on defense - and Tatum is a good defender -

Look I hate Boston too - but Tatum is good on both ends

Being good at both ends is somewhat overrated. Remember what league we're talking about. They didn't start honoring defense until the 1980s. DPOY is nowhere near as respected as MVP and you don't even need to play a lick of defense to win MVP. So it goes without saying that Tatum would be more of a problem if he was better offensively. He'd also make more money and be more of a superstar and more successful in general. The way Tatum is balanced right now he has the look of a solid #2 option on a great team.

Not for winning championships...

[AussieCeltic]

What do you think happens with Mavs D, if they have DPOY and rim protector instead Brunson/Powell?

Tatum wouldn't change anything, because they still couldn't defend and would rebound even worse. 0:4 against Suns.

I think the fact that Luka couldn’t guard Poole, Wiggins, Otto, Kuminga, Klay or curry on the perimeter or Looney or Dray in the post and Tatum at 6’10” can do alllll of that at some point in a game makes a huge difference- stop being ridiculous- Luka himself said he needs to work on defense - and Tatum is a good defender -

Look I hate Boston too - but Tatum is good on both ends

Being good at both ends is somewhat overrated. Remember what league we're talking about. They didn't start honoring defense until the 1980s. DPOY is nowhere near as respected as MVP and you don't even need to play a lick of defense to win MVP. So it goes without saying that Tatum would be more of a problem if he was better offensively. He'd also make more money and be more of a superstar and more successful in general. The way Tatum is balanced right now he has the look of a solid #2 option on a great team.

Being good at both ends is overrated?? Do you not watch basketball??

Every series in the playoffs has been about exploiting the weak defender. It’s the reason the Celtics are here. It’s the reason guys like Duncan Robinson couldn’t get off the bench when the Heat really needed outside shooting. It’s the reason the Mavs upset the suns by exploiting CP3.

Being good on the defensive end has never been more important. If you can’t defend, you’ll be hunted at will.

Also solid look of a number #2 on a really good team? He’s the number 1 on a team that is 1-0 up in the NBA finals. I’m not saying he’s better than Luka, but you have to be delusional to say something like that. This site has turned to ****.

[Archx]

Boston is only where they are because of two way play..._I agree that Luka would not make them better...you can’t just swap a 6’10” in shape dude that can give you 46 against Giannis and D up Giannis with a guy that could give you 40 as well but not stop KD or Giannis or Butler if the switch came. Again doesn’t make Tatum better per say...just means the team built around Tatum is built on defense.


Funny thing is the thing that made Dallas better was defense too... so the better question would be - would DALLAS be in the finals with Tatum because their defense would be that much better ...

What do you think happens with Mavs D, if they have DPOY and rim protector instead Brunson/Powell?

Tatum wouldn't change anything, because they still couldn't defend and would rebound even worse. 0:4 against Suns.

I think the fact that Luka couldn’t guard Poole, Wiggins, Otto, Kuminga, Klay or curry on the perimeter or Looney or Dray in the post and Tatum at 6’10” can do alllll of that at some point in a game makes a huge difference-

Mate, you need to understand something. Doncic (when it comes to 1v1 matchups) was 2nd best Mavs defender with 2nd most directly contested shots and 2nd best DFG%. Luka averages more contested shots per game than Tatum. Nr1 successful 1v1 defender vs GSW was DFS for Mavs. The only reason those overall numbers look THAT bad to you, is because of Looney.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND how terrible Mavs were as A UNIT in that series on defense? They made Looney look like an all star because their 2 centers couldn't provide any help with either rebounding or rim protection. You're basically saying that Iverson was the reason Philly lost the finals because he couldn't guard Shaq.

This is what Tatum did. (From my earlier post). Tatum did good on defense, but he did limited damage. He had insane amount of help from other help defenders.

35.8% of those partial possessions was him guarding Draymond Green who was 1/3 and 16% was vs Klay who was 1/4. The next guy was Steph, Tatum guarded him 15% of time and was 1/2.

Tatum defense resulted in players shooting 3/10 vs him but he also contested only 6 shots and had 0 box outs. So 4 of those 3/10 was basically misses with Tatum being as the closest defender.

He had 3 deflections but still wasn't teams highest. Smart, Horford, Williams by all statistical measures did a better job on defense than Tatum and spent more time guarding GSW best players. There is even a great argument that Derrick White was better than Tatum on defense. Him guarding Steph forced Steph to shoot 2/6 directly vs him.

[SelfishPlayer]

The Mavs committed to Luka ball by trading Porzingis away and replacing him with a player that could more accurately imitate PJ Tucker. Now Luka fans want to complain about the Mavs not having a center? Luka Ball is built to resemble what Harden had in Houston. Luka Ball made it to the conference finals, and the team showed their strength by winning playoff games without him. If the Mavs had a center, then there would be complaints from Luka Ball proponents about this center not spacing or switching well enough.

[ITYSL]

If narrative 3/17 is a great game wins, we can't debate about anything, because every Tatum's game will be great. I see no point in continuing this.

Here's a simple question for you. Is your judgment of a player's game based only on his shooting percentage? Because that is a really simplistic way of judging a player's game.

I do not think that Tatum had a great game. The reason I think that is because he had a horrible shooting night. However, I don't think he had a horrible game either. The reason I think that is because he managed double teams well, had a bunch of assists with few turnovers, and played at a high level defensively.

When this thread was bumped after Game 1, it was done to show how bad of a game Tatum had. But overall he had a decent game - horrible shooting but great playmaking and great defense.

I have a simple question too. Do you believe that average shooters shooting 65% for 3 was something that happens only now and then or the reason for this insane % was Tatum's great playmaking? If they continue to shoot like that, it's game over for GSW. 0:4.

Can you please rank Celtics' players in game 1?

Rewatch Q4, where Celtics turned game around. There you will find true heroes.

It was not only 12 points on horrible shooting, it was 0 points in last 16 minutes.

If we compare Curry vs. Tatum, Steph totally outplayed Tatum, but was -9, because other Celtics outplayed Warriors.

Answer my question first and then I'll gladly answer yours. Is your judgment of a player's game based only on his shooting percentage? Because that seems to be the only thing you're using to judge Tatum's Game 1 performance

[CobraCommander]

What do you think happens with Mavs D, if they have DPOY and rim protector instead Brunson/Powell?

Tatum wouldn't change anything, because they still couldn't defend and would rebound even worse. 0:4 against Suns.

I think the fact that Luka couldn’t guard Poole, Wiggins, Otto, Kuminga, Klay or curry on the perimeter or Looney or Dray in the post and Tatum at 6’10” can do alllll of that at some point in a game makes a huge difference-

Mate, you need to understand something. Doncic (when it comes to 1v1 matchups) was 2nd best Mavs defender with 2nd most directly contested shots and 2nd best DFG%. Luka averages more contested shots per game than Tatum. Nr1 successful 1v1 defender vs GSW was DFS for Mavs. The only reason those overall numbers look THAT bad to you, is because of Looney.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND how terrible Mavs were as A UNIT in that series on defense? They made Looney look like an all star because their 2 centers couldn't provide any help with either rebounding or rim protection. You're basically saying that Iverson was the reason Philly lost the finals because he couldn't guard Shaq.

This is what Tatum did. (From my earlier post). Tatum did good on defense, but he did limited damage. He had insane amount of help from other help defenders.

35.8% of those partial possessions was him guarding Draymond Green who was 1/3 and 16% was vs Klay who was 1/4. The next guy was Steph, Tatum guarded him 15% of time and was 1/2.

Tatum defense resulted in players shooting 3/10 vs him but he also contested only 6 shots and had 0 box outs. So 4 of those 3/10 was basically misses with Tatum being as the closest defender.

He had 3 deflections but still wasn't teams highest. Smart, Horford, Williams by all statistical measures did a better job on defense than Tatum and spent more time guarding GSW best players. There is even a great argument that Derrick White was better than Tatum on defense. Him guarding Steph forced Steph to shoot 2/6 directly vs him.

I won’t even disagree with that If the stats bear that out- I’m saying that Tatum is bigger &-fitter while just as young and a better defender than Luka. That’s not in debate right? Luka is not the defender that Tatum is. And if the Dallas defense was better maybe they are still playing....that’s all..I’m not saying anything about other defenders on dallas or Boston -

[CobraCommander]

I think the fact that Luka couldn’t guard Poole, Wiggins, Otto, Kuminga, Klay or curry on the perimeter or Looney or Dray in the post and Tatum at 6’10” can do alllll of that at some point in a game makes a huge difference- stop being ridiculous- Luka himself said he needs to work on defense - and Tatum is a good defender -

Look I hate Boston too - but Tatum is good on both ends

Being good at both ends is somewhat overrated. Remember what league we're talking about. They didn't start honoring defense until the 1980s. DPOY is nowhere near as respected as MVP and you don't even need to play a lick of defense to win MVP. So it goes without saying that Tatum would be more of a problem if he was better offensively. He'd also make more money and be more of a superstar and more successful in general. The way Tatum is balanced right now he has the look of a solid #2 option on a great team.

Being good at both ends is overrated?? Do you not watch basketball??

Every series in the playoffs has been about exploiting the weak defender. It’s the reason the Celtics are here. It’s the reason guys like Duncan Robinson couldn’t get off the bench when the Heat really needed outside shooting. It’s the reason the Mavs upset the suns by exploiting CP3.

Being good on the defensive end has never been more important. If you can’t defend, you’ll be hunted at will.

Also solid look of a number #2 on a really good team? He’s the number 1 on a team that is 1-0 up in the NBA finals. I’m not saying he’s better than Luka, but you have to be delusional to say something like that. This site has turned to ****.

Being good on defense has never been more important and at more of a premium-


Btw- the rest of us know this...even the mavs and Luka know this - MJ, Kobe and Lebron are 3 of the best wings ever and would be great even today because they were great both ways. It’s why I look at a 6’10” Tatum and I see Giannis upside and a 6’7” Luka and see Harden...both great upsides but Giannis upside is infinitely higher than hardens cause defense....

If Luka wants to be an all time great he can’t avg 28 pts a game in reg season- ramp it up to 32 in playoffs-and be a chubby bad defender- luka needs to be a defensive player to be the best. No one doubts if Luka can drop 40...but Tatum and Giannis can drop 40 as well while playing strong all nba level defense...

[CobraCommander]

If narrative 3/17 is a great game wins, we can't debate about anything, because every Tatum's game will be great. I see no point in continuing this.

The narrative is that Tatum had his worst game of the playoffs missing shots he usually makes easily but still managed to destroy the 3 time champs on their home court where they were 9-0.

tatum didnt destroy anyone. he destroyed his own team nearly before brown batman saved his ass. tatum wasnt even best player on his team and curry destroyed him individual performance wise.

Yo I could change the names and put Brunson or Dinwiddie in this quote and post it for the mavs too...come on man- it’s a team sport lol

[3toheadmelo]

The reason why Luka defends more shots is because he's specifically targeted on defense. Teams try to put Luka on an island because he's a liability. Luka's DFG% is 48% in the playoffs which is the highest amongst players that defended at least 17 field goals per game (Luka is at 16.9). That's pretty outrageous. Tatum's DFG% on the other hand is 41.1% which is very good.

It's also worth noting that Tatum is 3rd in the league in the post season in defensive win shares. Luka is at 50th in the league.