NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread)

[stuporman]

What does Brunson have to do just to get onto the poll? Not saying into the conversation or any votes on actual ballots...just on some stupid internet poll? Asking for a friend...

Oh...I see 'other', my friend is not impressed

[AleksandarN]

PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS

Then you will starve

Talk about living rent-free in someone's head.

Bye.

Stating the truth. Truth hurts apparently

[RB34]

Pretty nice game for Joker 31/13/10 with 2 FTs and the game clinching bucket.

[Bum Adebayo]

I'm happy Embiid got his MVP last season, because with Jokic's level and advanced stats, he would never win it otherwise, but neither would almost all of the past MVPs, for instance, Giannis best season doesn't match Jokic at all, so he would never win it if he had to compete against prime Jokic. He peaked earlier than Jokic so good for him.
That it's even a discussion speaks volumes about Embiid's RS campaign IMO. How many MVP seasons from the past would you consider better than 22-23 or 23-24 Jokic?

[eyeatoma]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Jeez what a stat padder...

Read on Twitter

Also LMFAO, he's a top 3 defender in the league and some of you think the MVP is close compared to Jokic. When you combine offense and defense Embiid is lapping the field.

[dWadeOwnzYou]

Looks like Embiid is seperating himself from the pack.

[Hobo4President]

I'm happy Embiid got his MVP last season, because with Jokic's level and advanced stats, he would never win it otherwise, but neither would almost all of the past MVPs, for instance, Giannis best season doesn't match Jokic at all, so he would never win it if he had to compete against prime Jokic. He peaked earlier than Jokic so good for him.
That it's even a discussion speaks volumes about Embiid's RS campaign IMO. How many MVP seasons from the past would you consider better than 22-23 or 23-24 Jokic?

I think Jokic should have won last year, but Embiid is very likely on track to win it this year if he hits the minimum games, his raw numbers are mind boggling and that 70 point game is something I think a lot of voters will strongly weight. And honestly I might just agree with them, Jokic has been great this year but if he ends up playing his expected 73-75 games and Embiid plays 66 I think you could quite easily justify Embiid deserving it.

[Jaqua92]

The only thing I care about regarding Embiid is that when he takes 10 free throws or less this season, he averages 31 PPG.

Most significantly, when he takes 6 free throws or less this year (Jokic takes 4.6) Embiid only averages 29/11/5 on 49% from the field.

When he doesn't get the whistle he usually gets, production falls.

[brettski]

My god, some of you can't even give someone props on a historic night. Must be so miserable to constantly bring in this negativity...

Maybe some of us are just getting a bit too much fatigue from certain posters ramming Embiid down our throats to want to come here and celebrate his amazing game. By the way since you said what you said in that quote I went back to check what your comments were like when Giannis scored 64 (only 6 points less) on 13 fewer shots while shooting 71% from the field just 6 or so weeks ago.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2338714&start=340

Page 18 of 93.

Over 30 fts for Giannis. But Embiid is a FT merchant lol.
And how about the Stat padding accusations? Embiid could have easily gotten 60. He has sat 1/3 of games this season because he has been so dominant.
Giannis is a battering ram.. Half of his drives are charges.

3 negative Giannis posts (you called him a FT merchant, stat padder and half his drives are charges) in one page, in different posts, straight after he scored 64. That doesn't look like just celebrating a historic night - which it was, franchise highest game score.

If you're not able to understand why I brought this up, you've not been paying attention to the **** Embiid gets for his FTs.

Giannis just had 30 free throws, in his 64 points. That is nearly half of his points. This board goes **** if Embiid has 10 free throws in a game, yet you see a game like this and not a peep about free throws. 64 points is incredible, but it isn't 70 points.

Also no one is ramming Embiid down your throats. If anything for the last 3 years Jokic has been rammed down our throats constantly. And the only thing about Embiid rammed down are throats is that he's a flopper and chokes. Hussein and I present a balance to this thread and the GB which is usually just a Joker circle jerk, or praising every candidate but Embiid. This is the first year I've seen more praise for Embiid, because he's having statistically the greatest season in NBA history. He essentially needs to be perfect to get positive discourse. Even though, you have the baseless accusations about ducking that have been flooding this thread as well as the GB ad nauseam.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but your perspective here, is not on point.

Fact remained you couldn't just celebrate Giannis game. You made it an argument about Embiid, and doubled down here in this post. If you can't accept and acknowledge that when there is clear evidence then I guess there really is no way to discuss facts with you.

[eyeatoma]

Maybe some of us are just getting a bit too much fatigue from certain posters ramming Embiid down our throats to want to come here and celebrate his amazing game. By the way since you said what you said in that quote I went back to check what your comments were like when Giannis scored 64 (only 6 points less) on 13 fewer shots while shooting 71% from the field just 6 or so weeks ago.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2338714&start=340

Page 18 of 93.



3 negative Giannis posts (you called him a FT merchant, stat padder and half his drives are charges) in one page, in different posts, straight after he scored 64. That doesn't look like just celebrating a historic night - which it was, franchise highest game score.

If you're not able to understand why I brought this up, you've not been paying attention to the **** Embiid gets for his FTs.

Giannis just had 30 free throws, in his 64 points. That is nearly half of his points. This board goes **** if Embiid has 10 free throws in a game, yet you see a game like this and not a peep about free throws. 64 points is incredible, but it isn't 70 points.

Also no one is ramming Embiid down your throats. If anything for the last 3 years Jokic has been rammed down our throats constantly. And the only thing about Embiid rammed down are throats is that he's a flopper and chokes. Hussein and I present a balance to this thread and the GB which is usually just a Joker circle jerk, or praising every candidate but Embiid. This is the first year I've seen more praise for Embiid, because he's having statistically the greatest season in NBA history. He essentially needs to be perfect to get positive discourse. Even though, you have the baseless accusations about ducking that have been flooding this thread as well as the GB ad nauseam.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but your perspective here, is not on point.

Fact remained you couldn't just celebrate Giannis game. You made it an argument about Embiid, and doubled down here in this post. If you can't accept and acknowledge that when there is clear evidence then I guess there really is no way to discuss facts with you.

I have no problem giving other players flowers. I just want consistency with the criticism.

[Infinite Llamas]

Winning your 1st is different than going for your 3rd.
The standards for mvp get higher as you reach a rarer exlcusive club of nba pantheons.

And what are the standards for the 2nd? Does a 30yo who's never had a single good playoff series qualify?

Ppl can whine and cry about jokic was robbed of his 3rd mvp and should have won mvp last season but you can make the same argument that Embiid was robbed in 2022 instead of jokic. Jokic won w/ the media narrative that he did more w/ less(no murray and mpj) but the media completely ignored the sixers had a better record than nuggets despite playing in a stronger eastern conference and simmons(at the time 2nd best player) not playing and almost sabotaging the team.


So if it played out where jokic won 1st(2021) embiid won 2nd(2022) the rhetoric about jokic not having made the finals would have been used against him as the mvps have been split and jokic would have been going for his 2nd in 2023. Going for a 3peat mvp w/o a finals appearance and joining a exclusive club who actually won titles sets a bad precedent and tarnishes the accomplishment.

I think ppl are being too harsh on Embiid for his postseason woes. As already been stated ad nauseum he's been playing injured for most of his playoff runs. Based on how dominant hes been the past few seasons we have to at least give him the benefit of doubt that he would play much better when fully healthy. He hasnt shown any past indicatkon of mental choking like james harden. Let's see how he looks this playoffs after he wins his back to back mvp. If he's fully healthy and still loses w/ a competent head coach in nurse then he deserves all the criticism.

And yet, despite the 76ers having a better record and Jokic not having his #2 or 3…

Jokic 46 individual wins
Embiid 45 individual wins

[LeBronSpaghetti]

Jokic’s last 13 games:

25.8pts 11.1reb 8.9ast 1.0stl 1.2blk (.742/.611/.860)

The efficiency is crazy right now

[RB34]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Jeez what a stat padder...

Read on Twitter

Also LMFAO, he's a top 3 defender in the league and some of you think the MVP is close compared to Jokic. When you combine offense and defense Embiid is lapping the field.

He’s also only played 8 games against top 10 teams with 2 on the road. Some of those listed players have played as many as 15.

[eyeatoma]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Jeez what a stat padder...

Read on Twitter

Also LMFAO, he's a top 3 defender in the league and some of you think the MVP is close compared to Jokic. When you combine offense and defense Embiid is lapping the field.

He’s also only played 8 games against top 10 teams with 2 on the road. Some of those listed players have played as many as 15.

Something tells me that average isn't going to drop much the more he plays against good teams.

[NO-KG-AI]

I had Joker last year, but this is Embiid right now until he either hits a wall or gets hurt. Joker is a bit on cruise control for his ceiling, and Embiid is going nuts. I don’t think there is a lot to discuss for #1 until something drastically changes.

[RB34]

Big game for Giannis against the red hot Cavs 35/18/10. A day after the coach was fired.

[mediocrityrules]

Big game for Giannis against the red hot Cavs 35/18/10. A day after the coach was fired.

I believe it's also his 5th triple-double this month, and he was one assist shy a couple of games ago of making that his fourth triple-double in a row. He's playing some good individual basketball at the moment.

[LordCovington33]

The only thing I care about regarding Embiid is that when he takes 10 free throws or less this season, he averages 31 PPG.

Most significantly, when he takes 6 free throws or less this year (Jokic takes 4.6) Embiid only averages 29/11/5 on 49% from the field.

When he doesn't get the whistle he usually gets, production falls.

You do realise “getting the whistle” is also correlated to playing well and putting pressure on the opposing player? When he is playing well, players are more likely to reach in or defend much closer to create less separation in the act of shooting. The more unguardable he becomes, the more frustrated opposing players become and the more likely a foul is committed.

[Chokic]

And what are the standards for the 2nd? Does a 30yo who's never had a single good playoff series qualify?

Ppl can whine and cry about jokic was robbed of his 3rd mvp and should have won mvp last season but you can make the same argument that Embiid was robbed in 2022 instead of jokic. Jokic won w/ the media narrative that he did more w/ less(no murray and mpj) but the media completely ignored the sixers had a better record than nuggets despite playing in a stronger eastern conference and simmons(at the time 2nd best player) not playing and almost sabotaging the team.


So if it played out where jokic won 1st(2021) embiid won 2nd(2022) the rhetoric about jokic not having made the finals would have been used against him as the mvps have been split and jokic would have been going for his 2nd in 2023. Going for a 3peat mvp w/o a finals appearance and joining a exclusive club who actually won titles sets a bad precedent and tarnishes the accomplishment.

I think ppl are being too harsh on Embiid for his postseason woes. As already been stated ad nauseum he's been playing injured for most of his playoff runs. Based on how dominant hes been the past few seasons we have to at least give him the benefit of doubt that he would play much better when fully healthy. He hasnt shown any past indicatkon of mental choking like james harden. Let's see how he looks this playoffs after he wins his back to back mvp. If he's fully healthy and still loses w/ a competent head coach in nurse then he deserves all the criticism.

And yet, despite the 76ers having a better record and Jokic not having his #2 or 3…

Jokic 46 individual wins
Embiid 45 individual wins

Western conference was weak that year.

[HotRocks34]

Latest RAPTOR rankings from the guy who ran 538.

For some reason ESPN in the last month or so got rid of their RPM stat page.