NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread)

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Who is leading the race for MVP? (players listed in alphabetical order)

Giannis Antetokounmpo
35
12%
Luka Doncic
24
8%
Anthony Edwards
2
1%
Joel Embiid
45
16%
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
50
18%
Tyrese Haliburton
0
No votes
Nikola Jokic
98
35%
Kawhi Leonard
6
2%
Jayson Tatum
13
5%
Other (Durant, Booker, Curry, Brunson, Sabonis, Fox, LeBron, Etc.)
10
4%
 
Total votes: 283

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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#1041 » by AleksandarN » Thu Jan 25, 2024 4:30 am

Chokic wrote:
Infinite Llamas wrote:
Chokic wrote:

Ppl can whine and cry about jokic was robbed of his 3rd mvp and should have won mvp last season but you can make the same argument that Embiid was robbed in 2022 instead of jokic. Jokic won w/ the media narrative that he did more w/ less(no murray and mpj) but the media completely ignored the sixers had a better record than nuggets despite playing in a stronger eastern conference and simmons(at the time 2nd best player) not playing and almost sabotaging the team.


So if it played out where jokic won 1st(2021) embiid won 2nd(2022) the rhetoric about jokic not having made the finals would have been used against him as the mvps have been split and jokic would have been going for his 2nd in 2023. Going for a 3peat mvp w/o a finals appearance and joining a exclusive club who actually won titles sets a bad precedent and tarnishes the accomplishment.

I think ppl are being too harsh on Embiid for his postseason woes. As already been stated ad nauseum he's been playing injured for most of his playoff runs. Based on how dominant hes been the past few seasons we have to at least give him the benefit of doubt that he would play much better when fully healthy. He hasnt shown any past indicatkon of mental choking like james harden. Let's see how he looks this playoffs after he wins his back to back mvp. If he's fully healthy and still loses w/ a competent head coach in nurse then he deserves all the criticism.


And yet, despite the 76ers having a better record and Jokic not having his #2 or 3…

Jokic 46 individual wins
Embiid 45 individual wins



Western conference was weak that year.


Nikola Jokic averaged 25.7 points, 13.7 rebounds and 8.2 assists in 27 games against the Eastern Conference in 2021-22..

Also Nikola Jokic had a record of 18-9 against the Eastern Conference in 2021-22.

A better record AGAINST the East vs West that year. What else you got? Easy work. Tell me again why Embiid was robbed
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#1042 » by Wolfgang630 » Thu Jan 25, 2024 5:09 am

Luka isn’t part of this race anymore. It’s only Embiid, Giannis, Jokic and SGA. NOT A SINGLE American again.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#1043 » by mediocrityrules » Thu Jan 25, 2024 5:11 am

Wolfgang630 wrote:Luka isn’t part of this race anymore. It’s only Embiid, Giannis, Jokic and SGA. NOT A SINGLE American again.


Ain't no one more 'Merican than Embiid now that he's on Team USA.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#1044 » by CobraCommander » Thu Jan 25, 2024 5:21 am

mediocrityrules wrote:
Wolfgang630 wrote:Luka isn’t part of this race anymore. It’s only Embiid, Giannis, Jokic and SGA. NOT A SINGLE American again.


Ain't no one more 'Merican than Embiid now that he's on Team USA.

Kinda crazy that Book finally got his revenge!

Booker planted that fan… Book gonna buy that fans tickets for Anytime they play Luka
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#1045 » by Wolfgang630 » Thu Jan 25, 2024 5:25 am

I forgot Embiid is “American”. He got his Ford F-350
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#1046 » by LordCovington33 » Thu Jan 25, 2024 6:02 am

Wolfgang630 wrote:I forgot Embiid is “American”. He got his Ford F-350

He’s more American than he is French.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#1047 » by Hussien Fatal » Thu Jan 25, 2024 7:02 am

Exp0sed wrote:
Hussien Fatal wrote:
Jaqua92 wrote:
Impact metrics > counting stats. Plus, BPM is literally a box score impact metric. Embiid is slightly favored. But there is not one single metric out there outside of PER that validates the claim he's been much better.

Do your thing man, just make sure you don't disappear like last year.


You just said “there is not one single metric outside of PER”

I literally just gave you two other metric’s in which Embiid has a massive advantage in other than PER, and they are pretty major metrics in PPG and also ft%. These are metrics that Embiid has a ridiculous lead in. Averaging 10ppg more than someone is considered “much better” and having a 7% advantage in ft% should also be considered “much better”.

Unless of course you don’t consider PPG or ft% a metric.


why are u omitting the obvious?

10 more ppg is great, but he's also taking 5+ more FGA per game and countless bogus ft's, he's just using a ton of possesions (which also inflates his assists, because every ball goes through him ,unlike Jokic)

he's doing that just because he is chasing stats and personal accolades, trying (again) to prove something to the world in the rs without realzing that this particular something - can only be proven in the postseason

he's also averging about 3.5 less APG, despite this insane usage
Jokic also has almost a full turnover less per game at only 2.9 this season

so 10 PPG, on alot more shots and with fewer point created by playmaking - they've been on the about the same level this season, all told but Jokic has done it without resting and ducking and has played alot more games which means - significantly higher overall \commulative production

Jokic is having the better offensive season of the two, make no mistake about it and don't let the huge gap in usage between the two fool u

p.s, these averages are also slightly skewed by 2 games in which Jokic got (wrongfully) ejected early


Embiid only averaging 3.6to’s with a 39% usage that’s not bad. Also you act as if the way he’s playing isn’t winning games? I mean the Sixers are 26-6 when he plays so he must be doing something right. Also if Jokic was better than Embiid this season he for sure should be favored to win mvp considering he’s played 10 plus more games but that’s not the case. Embiid has been better this season by a good margin.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#1048 » by eyeatoma » Thu Jan 25, 2024 9:24 am

Hussien Fatal wrote:
Exp0sed wrote:
Hussien Fatal wrote:
You just said “there is not one single metric outside of PER”

I literally just gave you two other metric’s in which Embiid has a massive advantage in other than PER, and they are pretty major metrics in PPG and also ft%. These are metrics that Embiid has a ridiculous lead in. Averaging 10ppg more than someone is considered “much better” and having a 7% advantage in ft% should also be considered “much better”.

Unless of course you don’t consider PPG or ft% a metric.


why are u omitting the obvious?

10 more ppg is great, but he's also taking 5+ more FGA per game and countless bogus ft's, he's just using a ton of possesions (which also inflates his assists, because every ball goes through him ,unlike Jokic)

he's doing that just because he is chasing stats and personal accolades, trying (again) to prove something to the world in the rs without realzing that this particular something - can only be proven in the postseason

he's also averging about 3.5 less APG, despite this insane usage
Jokic also has almost a full turnover less per game at only 2.9 this season

so 10 PPG, on alot more shots and with fewer point created by playmaking - they've been on the about the same level this season, all told but Jokic has done it without resting and ducking and has played alot more games which means - significantly higher overall \commulative production

Jokic is having the better offensive season of the two, make no mistake about it and don't let the huge gap in usage between the two fool u

p.s, these averages are also slightly skewed by 2 games in which Jokic got (wrongfully) ejected early


Embiid only averaging 3.6to’s with a 39% usage that’s not bad. Also you act as if the way he’s playing isn’t winning games? I mean the Sixers are 26-6 when he plays so he must be doing something right. Also if Jokic was better than Embiid this season he for sure should be favored to win mvp considering he’s played 10 plus more games but that’s not the case. Embiid has been better this season by a good margin.



Why are you bothering responding to him. He doesn't give a ****, and has tunnel vision. He continues to use the same arguments, and is basically only repping Joker or anyone other than Embiid because of what happened last year (a landslide vote that he still cannot come to terms with), and poor post season success (despite legitimate major injuries). Its a futile conversation...
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#1049 » by Wolfgang630 » Thu Jan 25, 2024 10:49 am

It’s kind of funny the top 5 guys for MVP; 4 of them are the top 4 in free throws per game. The coincidence of free throws to MVP is funny, except for Jokic who’s way down the list and he’s top 3 for MVP. What would it be like if he got 9-10 fts per game

Embiid- 12.2 per game
Giannis- 11.3 per game
SGA- 9.1 per game
Luka- 8.9 per game















25. Jokic- 5.7 per game
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#1050 » by eyeatoma » Thu Jan 25, 2024 11:02 am

Wolfgang630 wrote:It’s kind of funny the top 5 guys for MVP; 4 of them are the top 4 in free throws per game. The coincidence of free throws to MVP is funny, except for Jokic who’s way down the list and he’s top 3 for MVP. What would it be like if he got 9-10 fts per game

Embiid- 12.2 per game
Giannis- 11.3 per game
SGA- 9.1 per game
Luka- 8.9 per game















25. Jokic- 5.7 per game
MVP has nearly always been a scoring award apart from Joker. Best scorers have a lot of free throws. It's the way the league is. And Nash I guess...

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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#1051 » by AleksandarN » Thu Jan 25, 2024 12:44 pm

eyeatoma wrote:
Wolfgang630 wrote:It’s kind of funny the top 5 guys for MVP; 4 of them are the top 4 in free throws per game. The coincidence of free throws to MVP is funny, except for Jokic who’s way down the list and he’s top 3 for MVP. What would it be like if he got 9-10 fts per game

Embiid- 12.2 per game
Giannis- 11.3 per game
SGA- 9.1 per game
Luka- 8.9 per game















25. Jokic- 5.7 per game
MVP has nearly always been a scoring award apart from Joker. Best scorers have a lot of free throws. It's the way the league is. And Nash I guess...

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Magic.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#1052 » by eyeatoma » Thu Jan 25, 2024 12:57 pm

Yes those three are outliers.

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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#1053 » by Wolfgang630 » Thu Jan 25, 2024 1:33 pm

I’m looking at the list of MVP winners and PPG if you’re looking at it in a vacuum you’ll see Steph and Larry Bird with mid 20 ppg MVP’s too. Not gonna bring up Bill Russell for obvious reasons.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#1054 » by AdagioPace » Thu Jan 25, 2024 2:20 pm

eyeatoma wrote:
Wolfgang630 wrote:It’s kind of funny the top 5 guys for MVP; 4 of them are the top 4 in free throws per game. The coincidence of free throws to MVP is funny, except for Jokic who’s way down the list and he’s top 3 for MVP. What would it be like if he got 9-10 fts per game

Embiid- 12.2 per game
Giannis- 11.3 per game
SGA- 9.1 per game
Luka- 8.9 per game




25. Jokic- 5.7 per game
MVP has nearly always been a scoring award apart from Joker. Best scorers have a lot of free throws. It's the way the league is. And Nash I guess...

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it depends on what you mean by "nearly" (60% , 80% of MVPs??). TD, KG, and Nash for example won 5 (!) consecutive MVPs without being the best scorers in the league.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#1055 » by Roger Murdock » Thu Jan 25, 2024 3:13 pm

I heard all last year from 76ers fans that Jokic doesn’t deserve MVP again due to lack of post season success

Shouldn’t that same sentiment DQ Embiid this year?

I’m curious why the double standard? (Not really I know why)
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#1056 » by Chokic » Thu Jan 25, 2024 3:34 pm

Roger Murdock wrote:I heard all last year from 76ers fans that Jokic doesn’t deserve MVP again due to lack of post season success

Shouldn’t that same sentiment DQ Embiid this year?

I’m curious why the double standard? (Not really I know why)



It's not the same bc that chatter wasn't really brought up until jokic going for his 3rd not 2nd. Putting him in rare company.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#1057 » by UcanUwill » Thu Jan 25, 2024 3:42 pm

Sorry for spamming I guess, but I had to share this masterpiece I found on Facebook. It is Embiids to lose, I really hope he plays 65 games, imagine if he ends up with 64, that will be a laughable failure from NBA.

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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#1058 » by Wolfgang630 » Thu Jan 25, 2024 4:19 pm

That’s pretty disturbing
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#1059 » by DrModesty » Thu Jan 25, 2024 4:40 pm

How much of Embiid's scoring advantage is just because of increased usage? I didn't realize his was so high.

39.0% Embiid (1st)
36.3% Luka (2nd)
33.3% Giannis (3rd)
32.8% SGA (4th)
29.3% Jokic (22nd)

Makes a lot of sense that Jokic is further back in this stat given his propensity to pass. On the other hand Luka's high usage rate makes sense given the detritus around him plus Kyrie's missed games. Giannis and SGA are effectively leading the pack/peloton as opposed to Embiid and Luka's outlier usage rates.

The gap between Embiid (1st) and Giannis (3rd) , is the same gap as Giannis (3rd) and Jamal Murray (30th). The gap between Embiid and Jokic is the same as the gap between Jokic (22nd) and Jaime Jaquez Jr (103rd).
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#1060 » by Roger Murdock » Thu Jan 25, 2024 4:53 pm

Chokic wrote:
Roger Murdock wrote:I heard all last year from 76ers fans that Jokic doesn’t deserve MVP again due to lack of post season success

Shouldn’t that same sentiment DQ Embiid this year?

I’m curious why the double standard? (Not really I know why)



It's not the same bc that chatter wasn't really brought up until jokic going for his 3rd not 2nd. Putting him in rare company.


Embiid is the worst playoff performing MVP of all time

Multi time MVP winners (sans Malone) raise their game in the playoffs. Embiid would go from elite company to company of LEGENDS.

And Basketball legends aren’t forged in January vs 8-32 teams. They are forged in the playoffs.

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