The ROTY/Rookie Discussion Thread, Part III

[theo42]

Embiid could , just notice everytime embiid sits sixer's get blown off the court.
They're not even competitive with no embiid.
For anyone arguing Simmons for all star game take off your bias lens and see the truth ..He has potential but is not quite all star level yet.

You were saying?

[Rauxcee]

I love Mitchell but I hate these type of stats. He's shooting like 37% during the win streak and many of those games someone else led the team in scoring. (Plus some of those games he was playing badly in, and one he missed altogether).

Mitchell has been the leading scorer in 7 of the 11 games. Not sure I'd consider the 4 games he wasn't "many" but, meh.

[Stoked]

Honest question because I don’t know.

Mitchell has been elite in the 4th.

What are Simmons stats in the 4t

[downtownpie]

I love Mitchell but I hate these type of stats. He's shooting like 37% during the win streak and many of those games someone else led the team in scoring. (Plus some of those games he was playing badly in, and one he missed altogether).

Mitchell has been the leading scorer in 7 of the 11 games. Not sure I'd consider the 4 games he wasn't "many" but, meh.

Given the amount of shots he puts up he should be their leading scorer .

10 /24 today.

[CoreyGallagher]

Honest question because I don’t know.

Mitchell has been elite in the 4th.

What are Simmons stats in the 4t

Tonight’s games not considered, I’ll update when they are.

Simmons
9 minutes
4.5 points, 3.1 fga, 54.2 TS%
2.0 rebs, 1.5 assts, 0.9 tos
0.6 steals, 0.2 blocks

Mitchell
7.6 minutes
6.6 points, 5.0 fga, 54.4 TS%
1.0 rebs, 0.8 asts, 0.8 tos
0.4 steals, 0.1 blocks

Lol, kind of what you’d expect, I guess.

[vossy_3]

Mitchell set a 2nd all time NBA record tonight.

#1 most 3 pointers made by a rookie at this point in the season. Ever

#2. First rookie to lead his team in scoring during an 11 game win streak. Ever.

And probably number 1 for most 3 pointers taken.

He is a chucker...

And still dominating while starting to increase his assist numbers.

Have fun with your take.

Dominating???

Not sure about that.

Avg 3.66 since he missed a game is not increasing his assists numbers.

Fact is he is playing big minutes and taking lots of shots, therefor his ppg should look ok.

[Alex DeLarge]

People keep talking about how dangerous Simmons would be with a jumper but to me the far more easily acquired thing that'll make him a serious weapon is learning how to draw fouls. He can create separation from just about anyone but now he's still often either avoiding contact or else only looking to pass once he gets into the paint (if he doens't have a clear lane all the way to the cup). It should be a pretty easy adjustment and I'd expect it to be the next step he takes towards becoming an all-NBA level guy.

That will come as he develops more consistency in his shot. Bad free throw shooters don't enjoy going to the line.

No, it's a different skill that he just doesn't have down pat yet. In part because he's constantly driving in order to pass and hasn't developed an instinct for when to look to pass and when he can draw contact.

Also he's a nearly 60% FT shooter (and was nearly 70% in college), so getting to the line on average is going to get him 1.2ppp. That's as good as the best scorers in the league.

There is quite obviously a relationship between being a confident, accurate FT shooter, and looking to draw shooting fouls when getting into the lane.

[TFK]

Haven’t really seen much of Mitchell other than highlights, but from a distance he kind of reminds me of a cross between DWade and Lillard, which is certainly meant to be a compliment. It’s a credit to him that there is even still a legit ROTY debate, though I still think Simmons should win it as of today (full disclosure... Sixers fan here)

[_Joker]

And probably number 1 for most 3 pointers taken.

He is a chucker...

And still dominating while starting to increase his assist numbers.

Have fun with your take.

Dominating???

Not sure about that.

Avg 3.66 since he missed a game is not increasing his assists numbers.

Fact is he is playing big minutes and taking lots of shots, therefor his ppg should look ok.

Unrelated and all, but I'm assuming your username is in relation to the champion 3peat Captain?

Hope you enjoy the only other champion 3peat Captain alive that we sent your way this season.

[Hesh]

This same Mitchell game Josh Jackson also had 22 points 7 rebounds on 10-15 FG%

Not one mention of him. I know he's not in the running for ROY but damn he is also a rookie too putting up a nice stretch of games as of late

[RB34]

I think a lot of this Simmons hate on here has to do with the fact he’s Australian.

[_Joker]

I think a lot of this Simmons hate on here has to do with the fact he’s Australian.

Why hate him because he's an Aussie?

[Jables]

This same Mitchell game Josh Jackson also had 22 points 7 rebounds on 10-15 FG%

Not one mention of him. I know he's not in the running for ROY but damn he is also a rookie too putting up a nice stretch of games as of late

He's been good recently, add another to the pile of kids that got early hate and is turning it around. Seriously feels like people get more excited hating on kids than seeing them play well.

[RB34]

I think a lot of this Simmons hate on here has to do with the fact he’s Australian.

Why hate him because he's an Aussie?

Because Aussies are taking over the league!!! Haha nah just having a bit of a joke mate, green font.

[cl2117]

Tatum has hit the rookie wall a bit and not quite recovered. Hopefully post ASB he can bounce back and take the next step that the Hayward-less C's need him to if they want to advance in the playoffs.

Tatum is still playing really good basketball, but his insane efficiency has come back down to earth and he's stayed firmly in his roleplayer role rather than trying to step in and fill the scoring hole that Boston has. My big question with respect to that is whether or not that is part of a directive from Brad Stevens or just Tatum being a rookie and not asserting himself.

I wouldn't be surprised if it were the former as it would align with how Brad brought Jaylen Brown along. He spent a lot of time waiting in the wings for kickouts and just serving as a cog in the offense. Occasionally he'd have plays run for him (particularly after timeouts/out of bounds), but for the most part he was a secondary option. Tatum has gotten more opportunities than Brown did, and rightfully so given his polished scoring game, but he's similarly been relegated to a secondary option despite Boston's scoring woes.

Feels a bit greedy to watch a guy like Tatum play really good all around basketball and gripe that he isn't stepping up more on a team competing for HCA throughout the playoffs, but he was just SO good to start the season and his skillset fits so well with their needs, it's hard not to.

It's funny just how much Boston is going to have to rely on rookies during the stretch run. It's not just Tatum, but Semi Ojeleye on the wing is getting 15-20 mins in some games and Daniel Theis is a significant part of their (ineffective) big man rotation. Between those 3 they might be getting 60+ minutes out of rookies. I'd love to know the last time that happened for a team fighting for the #1 seed.

[commentatorer]

Hopefully Simmons will snub the NBA All-Star game for the next 15 years.
If anyone asks him why, he can just say "I only play to win" or "I need my rest".
Each year the NBA commissioner will be like-

[nurseryc]

Serious question: does Simmons have any shot at the All-Defence teams? His stats are outstanding and look like he should get a spot based on that and his play, it's hard to tell how much rep and past performance play into the voter's choices. Couldn't see if any rookies had previously made the teams.

He should. Simmons definitely should make one of the teams and arguably should be in the conversation for the first team

[Kolkmania]

People keep talking about how dangerous Simmons would be with a jumper but to me the far more easily acquired thing that'll make him a serious weapon is learning how to draw fouls. He can create separation from just about anyone but now he's still often either avoiding contact or else only looking to pass once he gets into the paint (if he doens't have a clear lane all the way to the cup). It should be a pretty easy adjustment and I'd expect it to be the next step he takes towards becoming an all-NBA level guy.

Agree. Getting a perimeter shot is important, but the ability to draw fouls and improve his finishing even more imo. It's absolutely incredible that he's finishing 73.5% of his shots at the rim on more than 300 attempts, but there's room for improvement. He needs to learn that he has to elongate his last step and initiate contact to get a better FTr and his finishing with his left hand is a bit questionable to this point.

Some of the defensive plays he has made throughout this winning streak, my goodness.

[Kolkmania]

Tatum has hit the rookie wall a bit and not quite recovered. Hopefully post ASB he can bounce back and take the next step that the Hayward-less C's need him to if they want to advance in the playoffs.

Tatum is still playing really good basketball, but his insane efficiency has come back down to earth and he's stayed firmly in his roleplayer role rather than trying to step in and fill the scoring hole that Boston has. My big question with respect to that is whether or not that is part of a directive from Brad Stevens or just Tatum being a rookie and not asserting himself.

I wouldn't be surprised if it were the former as it would align with how Brad brought Jaylen Brown along. He spent a lot of time waiting in the wings for kickouts and just serving as a cog in the offense. Occasionally he'd have plays run for him (particularly after timeouts/out of bounds), but for the most part he was a secondary option. Tatum has gotten more opportunities than Brown did, and rightfully so given his polished scoring game, but he's similarly been relegated to a secondary option despite Boston's scoring woes.

Feels a bit greedy to watch a guy like Tatum play really good all around basketball and gripe that he isn't stepping up more on a team competing for HCA throughout the playoffs, but he was just SO good to start the season and his skillset fits so well with their needs, it's hard not to.

It's funny just how much Boston is going to have to rely on rookies during the stretch run. It's not just Tatum, but Semi Ojeleye on the wing is getting 15-20 mins in some games and Daniel Theis is a significant part of their (ineffective) big man rotation. Between those 3 they might be getting 60+ minutes out of rookies. I'd love to know the last time that happened for a team fighting for the #1 seed.

I think it was quite obvious that this would happen. No way that a guy who refused to shoot three pointers in high school gets into the NBA a year later and somehow is the best NBA three point shooter in the league.

Now that his shot isn't falling as much we can see the worries about his finishing around the rim against length. He always tries to sneak a layup in by stretching his arms around the opponent, but he has to learn how to get into the man and absorb contact and adjust. All the time in the world though.

[cl2117]

snip.

I think it was quite obvious that this would happen. No way that a guy who refused to shoot three pointers in high school gets into the NBA a year later and somehow is the best NBA three point shooter in the league.

Now that his shot isn't falling as much we can see the worries about his finishing around the rim against length. He always tries to sneak a layup in by stretching his arms around the opponent, but he has to learn how to get into the man and absorb contact and adjust. All the time in the world though.

I think it was always obvious it would happen, but I thought the efficiency would go down while the volume went up, and that hasn't happened to the degree I was expecting. I thought he'd be consistently putting up closer to 15 shots a game and he's still averaging closer to 10 (it's going up though).

I'm not worried about the finishing around the rim against length at all though. I think that Stretch Armstrong-esque layup is a thing of beauty. Happy for him to continue to lean on that for now because I think as he establishes himself he's going to start getting calls on that drive and end up at the line, even if he isn't creating/absorbing contact.

You're right he's got to develop that strength and confidence to take on that contact if he's going to be good as his fanboys think he will be, but I feel like that's almost the easier thing to learn as opposed to that sneaky layup of his. That thing is just magic when it works. When he gets size and a bit of gravitas I think he's start having more success at the rim outside of his go-to move.