ECQF | P2 (2) Toronto Raptors vs (7) Orlando Magic

The Real Dalic · Post #1061 » by **The Real Dalic** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:09 pm

The team that's up 2-1, complaining non-stop about officials. Lol Especially since they still don't understand that we play defense not to foul. Magic were the best at it all season. But who cares because "the ReFz hate Canada ya'll!"

Yorkex · Post #1062 » by **Yorkex** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:23 pm

The Real Dalic wrote:The team that's up 2-1, complaining non-stop about officials. Lol Especially since they still don't understand that we play defense not to foul. Magic were the best at it all season. But who cares because "the ReFz hate Canada ya'll!"

In today's nba you play defense not to foul?
:lol:

Utah Jazz should be studying tapes of Orlando to guard Harden

SwaggyB · Post #1063 » by **SwaggyB** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:51 pm

The Real Dalic wrote:The team that's up 2-1, complaining non-stop about officials. Lol Especially since they still don't understand that we play defense not to foul. Magic were the best at it all season. But who cares because "the ReFz hate Canada ya'll!"

Is there teams out there that play defense TO foul? Seems an odd strategy if so...

I'm guessing based on the foul disparity, the magic must also be among the best at drawing fouls all season too, right?

I don't believe the everyone hates Canada narrative, but there is very clearly something off.. Maybe something as simple as maintaining a certain spread..?

The biggest thing that gets me is the consistency. For example, if fouls aren't being tightly called on drives, keep it that way all game. For both sides. It seems quite obvious that has not been the case this series.

The Real Dalic · Post #1064 » by **The Real Dalic** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:58 pm

SwaggyB wrote:
The Real Dalic wrote:The team that's up 2-1, complaining non-stop about officials. Lol Especially since they still don't understand that we play defense not to foul. Magic were the best at it all season. But who cares because "the ReFz hate Canada ya'll!"

Is there teams out there that play defense TO foul? Seems an odd strategy if so...

I'm guessing based on the foul disparity, the magic must also be among the best at drawing fouls all season too, right?

I don't believe the everyone hates Canada narrative, but there is very clearly something off.. Maybe something as simple as maintaining a certain spread..?

The biggest thing that gets me is the consistency. For example, if fouls aren't being tightly called on drives, keep it that way all game. For both sides. It seems quite obvious that has not been the case this series.

Nope, but Coach Cliff would literally rather give up open drives over fouling. Obviously, you would like for there to be a strong contest with no fouling, but you can hear him screaming from the sidelines "Don't foul!!!" Constantly.

The Raptors are more of a gambling and handsy defensive team, which nornally leads to more fouls. But they obviously shouldn't deviate from that since it works for them and they're good at it.

Also, you act as if the only way the game would be called fairly is if the FT's were exact, ignoring whether or not one team was fouling more or not. As long as the FT's are even (or let's face it, you want the Raptors to have more free throws and I keep hearing "where's Kawhi's Superstar calls") then the game was called fairly. That's just not the case. If you commit a foul more than the other team, you should be called on it. It's not going to be even.

If the Magic start fouling and playing less disciplined, they'll be called for more fouls. They're not doing that at the moment though. Obviously the refs are gonna miss some calls here and there on both sides. But this is not a case of the Raptors getting screwed over.

SFour · Post #1065 » by **SFour** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:03 pm

The Real Dalic wrote:The team that's up 2-1, complaining non-stop about officials. Lol Especially since they still don't understand that we play defense not to foul. Magic were the best at it all season. But who cares because "the ReFz hate Canada ya'll!"

Next time Magic only have 8 FTAs and the other team has 23 FTAs make sure you don't complain :thumbsup:

Hopefully that happens in game 4 then we'll see which fanbase will be complaining.

The Real Dalic · Post #1066 » by **The Real Dalic** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:07 pm

SFour wrote:
The Real Dalic wrote:The team that's up 2-1, complaining non-stop about officials. Lol Especially since they still don't understand that we play defense not to foul. Magic were the best at it all season. But who cares because "the ReFz hate Canada ya'll!"

Next time Magic only have 8 FTAs and the other team has 23 FTAs make sure you don't complain Hopefully that happens in game 4 then we'll see which fanbase will be complaining.

You do remember that 41-9 ft regular season game a couple of years ago, right? And Raptors fans still had the audacity to say you guys got screwed on a couple more calls there and should've had more free throws than that.

Raptors fans have this insecurity about being the only Canadian Basketball team and think you guys get screwed over because you're north of the border. It's not true. Since Lowry and DeRozan, you guys have actually getting more of the benefit of the whistle than not. It's why you guys are always among the top every season. Meanwhile, the Magic have always been at the bottom even with players like Dipo and Harris on the roster.

Also, if the Magic lost a free throw battle that badly, and won, I would take the win and not cry about it. If the Magic had that and lost, I wouldn't care if the refs officiated fairly. If it was unfair (unlike what's going on with the Raps,) I would definitely call it out though. Just because Raptors fans fall for Lowry's flops, doesn't mean the refs should.

ORL_on_FIRE · Post #1067 » by **ORL_on_FIRE** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:11 pm

Lowry really does flop a lot, never really noticed it until this series lol.

Always throwing his head back.

SFour · Post #1068 » by **SFour** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:24 pm

The Real Dalic wrote:
SFour wrote:
The Real Dalic wrote:The team that's up 2-1, complaining non-stop about officials. Lol Especially since they still don't understand that we play defense not to foul. Magic were the best at it all season. But who cares because "the ReFz hate Canada ya'll!"

Next time Magic only have 8 FTAs and the other team has 23 FTAs make sure you don't complain Hopefully that happens in game 4 then we'll see which fanbase will be complaining.

You do remember that 41-9 ft regular season game a couple of years ago, right? And Raptors fans still had the audacity to say you guys got screwed on a couple more calls there and should've had more free throws than that.

Raptors fans have this insecurity about being the only Canadian Basketball team and think you guys get screwed over because you're north of the border. It's not true. Since Lowry and DeRozan, you guys have actually getting more of the benefit of the whistle than not. It's why you guys are always among the top every season. Meanwhile, the Magic have always been at the bottom even with players like Dipo and Harris on the roster.

Also, if the Magic lost a free throw battle that badly, and won, I would take the win and not cry about it. If the Magic had that and lost, I wouldn't care if the refs officiated fairly. If it was unfair (unlike what's going on with the Raps,) I would definitely call it out though. Just because Raptors fans fall for Lowry's flops, doesn't mean the refs should.

All the numbers point to the Raptors being screwed by the refs in this series..but hey keep living in the past and bringing up **** from years ago that has nothing to do with this series.

Like I said, hopefully in game 4 the Raptors have double or triple the amount of FTAs so we can see which fanbase will be the one complaining. Hopefully Kawhi & Siakam start flopping like Lowry because that seems to be the only way to get the refs to use their **** whistle.

m1kenoff · Post #1069 » by **m1kenoff** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:27 pm

The Real Dalic wrote:
SFour wrote:
The Real Dalic wrote:The team that's up 2-1, complaining non-stop about officials. Lol Especially since they still don't understand that we play defense not to foul. Magic were the best at it all season. But who cares because "the ReFz hate Canada ya'll!"

Next time Magic only have 8 FTAs and the other team has 23 FTAs make sure you don't complain Hopefully that happens in game 4 then we'll see which fanbase will be complaining.

You do remember that 41-9 ft regular season game a couple of years ago, right? And Raptors fans still had the audacity to say you guys got screwed on a couple more calls there and should've had more free throws than that. Raptors fans have this insecurity about being the only Canadian Basketball team and think you guys get screwed over because you're north of the border. It's not true. Since Lowry and DeRozan, you guys have actually getting more of the benefit of the whistle than not. It's why you guys are always among the top every season. Meanwhile, the Magic have always been at the bottom even with players like Dipo and Harris on the roster.

Some of the "insecurity" you are referring to is unwarranted and is indeed lame. Nevertheless, some of it likely comes from theories that the NBA prefers 7 game series and the Canadian broadcasts having a negative effect on ratings. See also: the testimony of Tim Donaghy, SAC v. LAL. If it really is NBE and not NBA, the conspiracy would call for the mandate being: "Let's at least get a couple extra games out of this series", ORL is up-and-coming, TOR will kill our ratings game later in the playoffs, etc.

Your point about "we play defense not to foul" is actually a good point.

Reg. season ORL vs TOR FPG: 17
Playoffs ORL vs TOR FPG: 18
Reg. season ORL FPG: 18.6 (2nd only to SAS, TOR is 17th with 21)

Still, other stats + eye-test say the officiating has not been very favourable to Toronto.

Detective · Post #1070 » by **Detective** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:39 pm

NUCKER101 wrote:that non-continuation on Lowry...

Kawhi getting fouled just once on his 40+ drives in this series so far...

Magic having a large FT advantage in this series so far despite attempting the least amount of FT's during the regular season....

I think this will help drive home the point that much more. Credit to an NBA reddit user for compiling.

Spoiler:

I think the only positive so far is that for whatever reason, the Magic can't seem to take advantage of this situation we find ourselves in.

ATLTimekeeper · Post #1071 » by **ATLTimekeeper** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:58 pm

Magic opponents averaged .9 FTAs/100 possessions less than the Raptors in the regular season. The differential is 9.2 in the first three games. Enough of this weak "the Magic don't foul" argument. The Raptors don't foul much, either. There's no reason the disparity is this large.

pingpongrac · Post #1072 » by **pingpongrac** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:10 pm

The Real Dalic wrote:The team that's up 2-1, complaining non-stop about officials. Lol Especially since they still don't understand that we play defense not to foul. Magic were the best at it all season. But who cares because "the ReFz hate Canada ya'll!"

Copied and pasted from the Raptors board...

Orlando (regular season followed by playoffs)
Gordon: 3.2 FTA, 2.2 PF | 3.0 FTA, 3.0 PF (-0.2 FTA, +0.8 PF)
Vucevic: 2.8 FTA, 2.0 PF | 4.0 FTA, 1.7 PF (+1.2 FTA, -0.2 PF)
Augustin: 2.6 FTA, 1.4 PF | 3.7 FTA, 1.7 PF (+1.1 FTA, +0.3 PF)
Fournier: 2.1 FTA, 2.8 PF | 1.3 FTA, 2.7 PF (-0.8 FTA, -0.1 PF)
MCW: 1.9 FTA, 1.7 PF | 0.3 FTA, 2.7 PF (-1.6 FTA, +1.0 PF)
Isaac: 1.8 FTA, 1.9 PF | 2.7 FTA, 1.7 PF (+0.9 FTA, -0.2 PF)
Ross: 1.8 FTA, 1.5 PF | 4.3 FTA, 1.7 PF (+2.5 FTA, +0.2 PF)
Birch: 1.7 FTA, 1.4 PF | 1.7 FTA, 1.7 PF (+0.0 FTA, +0.3 PF)
Iwundu: 1.5 FTA, 1.8 PF | 1.3 FTA, 1.3 PF (-0.2 FTA, -0.5 PF)

Toronto (regular season followed by playoffs)
Leonard: 7.1 FTA, 1.5 PF | 4.3 FTA, 3.0 PF (-2.8 FTA, +1.5 PF)
Siakam: 3.8 FTA, 3.0 PF | 1.3 FTA, 2.7 PF (-2.5 FTA, -0.3 PF)
Gasol: 3.2 FTA, 2.7 PF | 0.7 FTA, 2.3 PF (-2.5 FTA, -0.4 PF)
Lowry: 3.0 FTA, 2.6 PF | 3.0 FTA, 3.7 PF (+0.0 FTA, +1.1 PF)
Ibaka: 2.4 FTA, 2.9 PF | 1.3 FTA, 2.0 PF (-1.1 FTA, -0.9 PF)
FVV: 1.8 FTA, 1.7 PF | 0.7 FTA, 1.7 PF (-1.1 FTA, +0.0 PF)
Powell: 1.3 FTA, 1.6 PF | 0.7 FTA, 1.3 PF (-0.6 FTA, -0.3 PF)
Green: 0.6 FTA, 2.1 PF | 0.7 FTA, 3.0 PF (+0.1 FTA, +0.9 PF)

Almost every rotation player for Toronto is seeing a substantial drop in FTA (and Kawhi, Siakam and Gasol are all at least 2.5 FTA/game lower) while Orlando's main rotation players are generally getting to the line at the same rate with a noticeable increase for Ross (2.5 more FTA), Vucevic (1.2 more FTA) and Augustin (1.1 more FTA). Similarly, some of Toronto's highest IQ players and best defenders are getting called for more PFs (Kawhi 1.5 more PF, Lowry 1.1 more PF, Green 0.9 more PF) while the only noteworthy increases for Orlando are Gordon (0.8 more PF) - who has been guarding Kawhi Leonard - and MCW (1.0 more PF) - who has seen a ~33% increase in his minutes.

I just don't understand how a team like Orlando - a very good but young and inexperienced defensive team - is getting the benefit of the doubt on the defensive end while a team like Toronto - a very good and experienced defensive team - is getting called for touch fouls.

cwas2882 · Post #1073 » by **cwas2882** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:19 pm

Yep. The NBA hates Toronto. They should just give up now, since they're just going to get screwed over next round. Or the round after that. Why even try to advance?

Hell, everyone hates Canada. What's there point of even living up there? Just give up. Move to the US. It's the only way anyone will care about or love you.

ATLTimekeeper · Post #1074 » by **ATLTimekeeper** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:23 pm

cwas2882 wrote:Yep. The NBA hates Toronto. They should just give up now, since they're just going to get screwed over best round. Or the round after that. Why even try to advance?

Hell, everyone hates Canada. What's there point of even living up there? Just give up. Move to the US. It's the only way anyone will care about or love you.

I'm pretty sure I heard the "refs, you suck" chant in Orlando while they held a double digit FTA advantage :lol:

Of course we're the only ones that complain, though.

cwas2882 · Post #1075 » by **cwas2882** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:25 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:
cwas2882 wrote:Yep. The NBA hates Toronto. They should just give up now, since they're just going to get screwed over best round. Or the round after that. Why even try to advance?

Hell, everyone hates Canada. What's there point of even living up there? Just give up. Move to the US. It's the only way anyone will care about or love you.

I'm pretty sure I heard the "refs, you suck" chant in Orlando while they held a double digit FTA advantage Of course we're the only ones that complain, though.

Orlando fans saw the same thing Raptors fans saw and were trying to be supportive.

Detective · Post #1076 » by **Detective** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:33 pm

cwas2882 wrote:What's there point of even living up there?

Probably only the top-tier quality of life.

cwas2882 · Post #1077 » by **cwas2882** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:36 pm

Detective wrote:
cwas2882 wrote:What's there point of even living up there?

Probably only the top-tier quality of life.

That's good. Why do all the fans seem so insecure, then?

Detective · Post #1078 » by **Detective** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:44 pm

cwas2882 wrote:
Detective wrote:
cwas2882 wrote:What's there point of even living up there?

Probably only the top-tier quality of life.

That's good. Why do all the fans seem so insecure, then?

I honestly think it's karma somewhat. Championship level IRL must be balanced by subpar Sports life. Which leads to frustration for some, thinking why can't your sports expectations meet your lifestyle expectations.

cwas2882 · Post #1079 » by **cwas2882** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:53 pm

Detective wrote:
cwas2882 wrote:
Detective wrote:
Probably only the top-tier quality of life.

That's good. Why do all the fans seem so insecure, then?

I honestly think it's karma somewhat. Championship level IRL must be balanced by subpar Sports life. Which leads to frustration for some, thinking why can't your sports expectations meet your lifestyle expectations.

I root for Florida teams so I can feel the same disappointment that my parents feel toward me

Detective · Post #1080 » by **Detective** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:54 pm

cwas2882 wrote:
Detective wrote:
cwas2882 wrote:
That's good. Why do all the fans seem so insecure, then?

I honestly think it's karma somewhat. Championship level IRL must be balanced by subpar Sports life. Which leads to frustration for some, thinking why can't your sports expectations meet your lifestyle expectations.

I root for Florida teams so I can feel the same disappointment that my parents feel toward me

You still an MVP to us though, fam

:hug:

Who wins the series?