NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread)

[gottamakeit]

That’s pretty disturbing

check out the original, Saturn Devouring His Son to get a taste of the original disturbing experience
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_Devouring_His_Son

This interpretation is fantastic!
I wonder if this is the first time this painting has been interpreted through a sports lens

[Infinite Llamas]

I heard all last year from 76ers fans that Jokic doesn’t deserve MVP again due to lack of post season success

Shouldn’t that same sentiment DQ Embiid this year?

I’m curious why the double standard? (Not really I know why)

It's not the same bc that chatter wasn't really brought up until jokic going for his 3rd not 2nd. Putting him in rare company.

So if Embiid wins MVP this year AND flames out in the playoffs again can we expect a nice, quiet MVP thread next year…pretty please?

[yannisk]

I heard all last year from 76ers fans that Jokic doesn’t deserve MVP again due to lack of post season success

Shouldn’t that same sentiment DQ Embiid this year?

I’m curious why the double standard? (Not really I know why)

It's not the same bc that chatter wasn't really brought up until jokic going for his 3rd not 2nd. Putting him in rare company.

So if Embiid wins MVP this year AND flames out in the playoffs again can we expect a nice, quiet MVP thread next year…pretty please?

Don't bet on it. The timetable is: immediately after failure Eyeatoma will make a comment that Embiid is not what he thought to be. Come October the talk will be about some minor injury. By December Eyeatoma and Hussien will be in full throttle again

[Exp0sed]

I heard all last year from 76ers fans that Jokic doesn’t deserve MVP again due to lack of post season success

Shouldn’t that same sentiment DQ Embiid this year?

I’m curious why the double standard? (Not really I know why)

It's not the same bc that chatter wasn't really brought up until jokic going for his 3rd not 2nd. Putting him in rare company.

Embiid will be in ultra rare company, as no other player in history has won back to back MVP without ever getting of the second rd

ur just embrassing urselves, guys
this is an online forum we got it all on record all ur glorious claims from the past two years

[CharityStripe34]

Going to be a fun weekend for the MVP candidates. Jokic is hosting Embiid on Saturday and then Giannis on Monday, and then Jokic is going to OKC on Wednesday for a showdown with SGA. On a quick glance I don't think any of the teams are on a B2B. Should be quite entertaining.

This thread may crash the forums.

[Black star]

At right around the halfway mark it's been long enough to form some MVP thoughts.

Embiid is 1 and the clear favorite to win the award if he keeps up the pace and meets the game requirement. He has been mauling teams all season long and is having the best scoring season we've seen from a center since Shaq, highlighted by that 70 point masterclass. Add in his elite defensive play and this is the best he has ever played. I think his case is pretty open and shut.

I have SGA at 2. The best guard in the league, putting up 31 6 6 while on pace to win the steals title, likely going to be making an all defensive team. Most importantly, he has the Thunder tied for the 1 seed in the West with his 2nd best player being either a 2nd year Jalen Williams or rookie Chet Holmgren. The Thunder are way ahead of schedule and SGA is the engine behind it. If Embiid starts missing games or slows down I think this becomes a bigger story.

I have Jokic and Giannis 3 and 4 respectively. Both having fantastic seasons. Both could probably make a run if they wanted to but aren't going full tilt for the regular season. We've seen better from them. If Denver or Milwaukee starts kicking butt post all star break then they climb this list because the biggest thing holding them down is that we're used to them at this point.

5 could be any number of players. I'll go with Luka even though the Mavs have taken a step back lately. His numbers are still absurd, he creates a ton, he's been better on the defensive end. The Mavs have to be a top 3 seed for him to realistically be in the picture.

[Jaqua92]

I heard all last year from 76ers fans that Jokic doesn’t deserve MVP again due to lack of post season success

Shouldn’t that same sentiment DQ Embiid this year?

I’m curious why the double standard? (Not really I know why)

It's not the same bc that chatter wasn't really brought up until jokic going for his 3rd not 2nd. Putting him in rare company.

Embiid winning his 2nd without a conference finals isn't rare company. It's exclusive company.

He's already the only MVP to never make a conference finals. He'd be the first MVP, EVER, to never make a conference finals.

Which means 1 of 2 things are true.

1. Using the previous anti Jokic campaign the media threw at us, Embiid won't win this award because, like Jokic last year, he would set a significant precedent.

2. He wins it, which is an admission that last year's MVP was swayed by an exclusive narrative against Jokic, robbing him of his 3rd MVP.

[dygaction]

Luka isn’t part of this race anymore. It’s only Embiid, Giannis, Jokic and SGA. NOT A SINGLE American again.

Ain't no one more 'Merican than Embiid now that he's on Team USA.

Kinda crazy that Book finally got his revenge!

Booker planted that fan… Book gonna buy that fans tickets for Anytime they play Luka

Even book would not use a regular season game with KD and Beal healthy while Kyrie missing as his finally revenge game. That said, a triggered luka can be a double sword

[dygaction]

A random dose of your own medicine when Jokic was about to win two in a row
___________________________________________________________
Post#141 » by eyeatoma » Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:51 am

One of the best journalists in the league gets it. Shame he had to win another MVP for people to realize this.

https://theathletic.com/3257867/2022/04/19/nikola-jokic-mvp-nuggets-warriors/

From the article:

But in the interest of contextualizing the conversation that looks likely to come, I spent much of the second half diving into the Basketball-Reference.com annals to get a better sense of the situation here. The following is a breakdown of playoff finishes for all of the league’s 66 MVPs:

Won the championship: 23
Lost in The Finals: Nine
Lost in the conference/division finals: 20*
Lost in the conference semifinals: Eight
Lost in the first round: Five **
Didn’t make the playoffs: One ***

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

[losmi]

The league has already ruined all-star games. Now they're about to ruin the awards by turning them into a contest of who can score the most against tanking teams. Whoever has the least shame to take the highest usg% in those games will get the award. Resting for those games is appreciated and encouraged.

Embiid is my favorite for the award. Where shamelessness is valued, always bet on him.

[Doctor MJ]

I had Joker last year, but this is Embiid right now until he either hits a wall or gets hurt. Joker is a bit on cruise control for his ceiling, and Embiid is going nuts. I don’t think there is a lot to discuss for #1 until something drastically changes.

Just a stat to consider with "cruise control".

A simple stat I use that I call an OnWin is the number of games a player had a positive +/- while playing at least half a standard game (24 mins). Here are the guys on the poll right now by this metric:

Jokic 35
SGA 32
Edwards 29
Giannis 28
Tatum 28
Kawhi 27
Embiid 23
Haliburton 22
Luka 19

For those curious, Maxey has a 30.

[NO-KG-AI]

I had Joker last year, but this is Embiid right now until he either hits a wall or gets hurt. Joker is a bit on cruise control for his ceiling, and Embiid is going nuts. I don’t think there is a lot to discuss for #1 until something drastically changes.

Just a stat to consider with "cruise control".

A simple stat I use that I call an OnWin is the number of games a player had a positive +/- while playing at least half a standard game (24 mins). Here are the guys on the poll right now by this metric:

Jokic 35
SGA 32
Edwards 29
Giannis 28
Tatum 28
Kawhi 27
Embiid 23
Haliburton 22
Luka 19

For those curious, Maxey has a 30.

He’s sick lol. Just by virtue of his size and ability, he has like the highest floor you can imagine. Not to keep hammering the term, but he might have the best “cruise control” ever. He can just do the bare minimum effort on offense and still have such a high impact. He doesn’t have to be making or even taking shots, or expending a bunch of energy to have a huge impact.

[ChartFiction]

I had Joker last year, but this is Embiid right now until he either hits a wall or gets hurt. Joker is a bit on cruise control for his ceiling, and Embiid is going nuts. I don’t think there is a lot to discuss for #1 until something drastically changes.

Just a stat to consider with "cruise control".

A simple stat I use that I call an OnWin is the number of games a player had a positive +/- while playing at least half a standard game (24 mins). Here are the guys on the poll right now by this metric:

Jokic 35
SGA 32
Edwards 29
Giannis 28
Tatum 28
Kawhi 27
Embiid 23
Haliburton 22
Luka 19

For those curious, Maxey has a 30.

This stat/method excludes 2 blowouts by Shai before he hit 24 minutes where he was +26 and +41 respectively

[lethalizer]

As eyeatoma would surely point out if it happened to any other candidate..

Rough, rough loss for the leading MVP candidate tonight.

[eyeatoma]

Rough loss for the Sixer, bad game from Jo, but then he got hurt again. Jokic also hurt his eye, so not sure if he even plays. Could have the double duck!

[Wolfgang630]

I would laugh if Jokic and Embiid did not to play in Denver lmao.

[Doctor MJ]

I had Joker last year, but this is Embiid right now until he either hits a wall or gets hurt. Joker is a bit on cruise control for his ceiling, and Embiid is going nuts. I don’t think there is a lot to discuss for #1 until something drastically changes.

Just a stat to consider with "cruise control".

A simple stat I use that I call an OnWin is the number of games a player had a positive +/- while playing at least half a standard game (24 mins). Here are the guys on the poll right now by this metric:

Jokic 35
SGA 32
Edwards 29
Giannis 28
Tatum 28
Kawhi 27
Embiid 23
Haliburton 22
Luka 19

For those curious, Maxey has a 30.

This stat/method excludes 2 blowouts by Shai before he hit 24 minutes where he was +26 and +41 respectively

Wow, thank you pointing that out Chart! Shai's really having a remarkable year.

[mediocrityrules]

I would laugh if Jokic and Embiid did not to play in Denver lmao.

The ultimate psyche out.

[Bum Adebayo]

How much of Embiid's scoring advantage is just because of increased usage? I didn't realize his was so high.

39.0% Embiid (1st)
36.3% Luka (2nd)
33.3% Giannis (3rd)
32.8% SGA (4th)
29.3% Jokic (22nd)

Makes a lot of sense that Jokic is further back in this stat given his propensity to pass. On the other hand Luka's high usage rate makes sense given the detritus around him plus Kyrie's missed games. Giannis and SGA are effectively leading the pack/peloton as opposed to Embiid and Luka's outlier usage rates.

The gap between Embiid (1st) and Giannis (3rd) , is the same gap as Giannis (3rd) and Jamal Murray (30th). The gap between Embiid and Jokic is the same as the gap between Jokic (22nd) and Jaime Jaquez Jr (103rd).

But in this case it's more than justified, his playmaking has improved a lot this year, it's not just a case of increasing scoring while maintaining or worsening assists and turnovers.

[DrModesty]

How much of Embiid's scoring advantage is just because of increased usage? I didn't realize his was so high.

39.0% Embiid (1st)
36.3% Luka (2nd)
33.3% Giannis (3rd)
32.8% SGA (4th)
29.3% Jokic (22nd)

Makes a lot of sense that Jokic is further back in this stat given his propensity to pass. On the other hand Luka's high usage rate makes sense given the detritus around him plus Kyrie's missed games. Giannis and SGA are effectively leading the pack/peloton as opposed to Embiid and Luka's outlier usage rates.

The gap between Embiid (1st) and Giannis (3rd) , is the same gap as Giannis (3rd) and Jamal Murray (30th). The gap between Embiid and Jokic is the same as the gap between Jokic (22nd) and Jaime Jaquez Jr (103rd).

But in this case it's more than justified, his playmaking has improved a lot this year, it's not just a case of increasing scoring while maintaining or worsening assists and turnovers.

Yeah, Phillies record easily justifies the playstyle. I just found it illuminating.