James Harden traded to the Rockets

[Knicker23]

Not convinced Harden is worth max $ or can lead a team as the focus player. However it's still a good deal for Houston to take. Clearly OKC tried to sign him, but couldn't, so I think this as a next step was a good move. Not sure you can say they're better, but they did get a good player in Martin for him and some picks.

[JustAwesome]

Often times, players with max potential are paid max deals. Some of the time, those players grow to become max players.

[FlipTSO]

Because Harden is a defensive liability?

And you surmise that if Martin starts, he is not?

I surmise that if they start Martin, it says to me they think he's a better starting SG than they thought Harden was.

When you draft a player 3rd overall and you were still bringing him off the bench going into his 4th year, that tells you something about what the organization sees in him. Its not a Jason Terry/Manu situation, where those guys come off the bench because they are past their prime, and neither was the 3rd overall pick.

And the idea that it doesn't matter who starts its who finishes is BS. How you set the tone on defense to start games usually determines how the rest of the game plays out.

[Zedders]

REGULAR SEASON

OKC offense w/James Harden: 114.96 points per 100 possessions
OKC offense w/o James Harden: 100.84 points per 100 possessions

PLAYOFFS

OKC offense w/James Harden: 115.13 points per 100 possessions
OKC offense w/o James Harden: 102.46 points per 100 possessions

[Sasaki]

Because Harden is a defensive liability?

And you surmise that if Martin starts, he is not?

I surmise that if they start Martin, it says to me they think he's a better starting SG than they thought Harden was.

When you draft a player 3rd overall and you were still bringing him off the bench going into his 4th year, that tells you something about what the organization sees in him. Its not a Jason Terry/Manu situation, where those guys come off the bench because they are past their prime, and neither was the 3rd overall pick.

And the idea that it doesn't matter who starts its who finishes is BS. How you set the tone on defense to start games usually determines how the rest of the game plays out.

Manu's been going off the bench since at least 2007. Are you suggesting he was past his prime then?

[COY0607]

REGULAR SEASON

OKC offense w/James Harden: 114.96 points per 100 possessions
OKC offense w/o James Harden: 100.84 points per 100 possessions

PLAYOFFS

OKC offense w/James Harden: 115.13 points per 100 possessions
OKC offense w/o James Harden: 102.46 points per 100 possessions

misleading numbers, of course your offence is going to better when you replace a specialist defender (shefalosha) with a specialist offensive player.... their offensive numbers will be significantly improved when martin is on the floor as opposed to thabo shefalosha as well

[Guy986]

Because Harden is a defensive liability?

And you surmise that if Martin starts, he is not?

I surmise that if they start Martin, it says to me they think he's a better starting SG than they thought Harden was.

When you draft a player 3rd overall and you were still bringing him off the bench going into his 4th year, that tells you something about what the organization sees in him. Its not a Jason Terry/Manu situation, where those guys come off the bench because they are past their prime, and neither was the 3rd overall pick.

And the idea that it doesn't matter who starts its who finishes is BS. How you set the tone on defense to start games usually determines how the rest of the game plays out.

If the thunder start Kevin Martin it reinforces the notion that James Harden was brought off the bench to balance the offense. They needed somebody who could make plays, handle the ball and initiate the offense for the 2nd unit. Harden just happens to be one of the best at the 2 guard.

Martin has no such ability, him off the bench wouldn't bring the same benefit.

[NickAnderson]

Harden is a great, great player but not worth a max deal, sorry. Having Martin and Lamb will be just as good as harden because of there scoring AND it gives KD more touches.

They'll have room for more flexibility in the future and Lamb looks like he will be a STUD.

[black bart]

thabo played 21 minutes per game. Harden played 31 minutes. That is all that is needed to be said about who they thought was better. The reason why harden came off the bench was because he is one of the best offensive players in the league. They are able to score effectively and rest durant and westbrook. The better players play more minutes.

[Frank Mulely]

I hate this trade for OKC. Intellectually I'm sure it makes sense but to me you have a core group of young guys all drafted and developed together that makes the finals then you trade one....just doesn't feel right.

[black bart]

I hate this trade for OKC. Intellectually I'm sure it makes sense but to me you have a core group of young guys all drafted and developed together that makes the finals then you trade one....just doesn't feel right.

Doesn't make sense intellectually either. This was a salary dump to avoid taxes.

[Neutral 123]

First of all Harden is a fine player, but he is not a MAX player. People are criticizing Presti, but down the line paying Harden the max would have hampered their cap situation. Let us see how Harden does when he does not have the likes of Durant, and Westbrook alongside of him. Good for Harden to get the contract he did get. Not bad for a 6th man.

SMH, he's far better than anyone on the Raptors. The Thunder were title contenders only because they could have someone like him coming off the bench. Now they have Kevin Martin? Oh dear...

[JunkYardSubs]

First of all Harden is a fine player, but he is not a MAX player. People are criticizing Presti, but down the line paying Harden the max would have hampered their cap situation. Let us see how Harden does when he does not have the likes of Durant, and Westbrook alongside of him. Good for Harden to get the contract he did get. Not bad for a 6th man.

SMH, he's far better than anyone on the Raptors. The Thunder were title contenders only because they could have someone like him coming off the bench. Now they have Kevin Martin? Oh dear...

So you troll the general board too?

[BrooklynBulls]

I surmise that if they start Martin, it says to me they think he's a better starting SG than they thought Harden was.

Ok. In what ways specifically do you surmise, or do you believe the THUNDER surmise, Martin is better than Harden? And if Martin is indeed better, man must you feel that Houston is insane to trade him straight up for Harden, let alone give him the ultramax.

When you draft a player 3rd overall and you were still bringing him off the bench going into his 4th year, that tells you something about what the organization sees in him. Its not a Jason Terry/Manu situation, where those guys come off the bench because they are past their prime, and neither was the 3rd overall pick.

Jason Terry and Manu Ginobili came off the bench in their primes.

And the idea that it doesn't matter who starts its who finishes is BS. How you set the tone on defense to start games usually determines how the rest of the game plays out.

I agree with you. Thabo is there to try to frustrate opposing perimeter scorers and stop their momentum before it begins. Once a shooter gets rolling, they're hard to stop. It's best to never let them start. I agree that that's the reason why Harden doesn't start.

[mg]

Haven't read the entire thread but think it's a great deal for both teams. After Harden turned down that last deal you know the media was going to make his contract status a huge distraction this season.

It's been obvious for awhile that OKC couldn't pay all their stars. After Harden rejected the last offer this type of deal is the best fit since they get an instant replacement for Harden who just happens to be on an expiring contract. They get a future potential stud in Lamb, a lottery pick, plus 2 other picks. OKC is already the best team in the WC so it's not often those types of teams can acquire a lottery pick. Presti is a smart cookie and would not have dealt Harden in the division unless Houston was offering by far the best deal.

As for Morey it's been evident for awhile they've been biding their time waiting to trade assets for a star player. Personally I don't think Harden will be enough. I like alot of their young players but they still need to acquire a franchise player thru the draft or FA.

[Neutral 123]

First of all Harden is a fine player, but he is not a MAX player. People are criticizing Presti, but down the line paying Harden the max would have hampered their cap situation. Let us see how Harden does when he does not have the likes of Durant, and Westbrook alongside of him. Good for Harden to get the contract he did get. Not bad for a 6th man.

SMH, he's far better than anyone on the Raptors. The Thunder were title contenders only because they could have someone like him coming off the bench. Now they have Kevin Martin? Oh dear...

So you troll the general board too?

Are you disagreeing or just posting to post?

[Neutral 123]

Haven't read the entire thread but think it's a great deal for both teams. After Harden turned down that last deal you know the media was going to make his contract status a huge distraction this season.

It's been obvious for awhile that OKC couldn't pay all their stars. After Harden rejected the last offer this type of deal is the best fit since they get an instant replacement for Harden who just happens to be on an expiring contract. They get a future potential stud in Lamb, a lottery pick, plus 2 other picks. OKC is already the best team in the WC so it's not often those types of teams can acquire a lottery pick. Presti is a smart cookie and would not have dealt Harden in the division unless Houston was offering by far the best deal.

As for Morey it's been evident for awhile they've been biding their time waiting to trade assets for a star player. Personally I don't think Harden will be enough. I like alot of their young players but they still need to acquire a franchise player thru the draft or FA.

It might be time to reevaluate what type of cookie this Presti is. Unless this was a direct demand they not just give him the max, when they were so close to it anyways, trading him makes no sense. Hell, trading him now makes no sense anyways.

[[GR]]

Bill Simmons ‏@sportsguy33

OKC has everyone thinking they're a mom & pop store, meanwhile they made 30-35 million profit last year + could sell team for $550m easy.

[JellosJigglin]

Always a gamble when you break up a championship contending team. They were in position to win now. Now they're banking on the future.

[TheCage4]

This move reaffirms, at least to me, why Presti is king of the GM hill.

Harden is great, but he was a non factor when the Thunder needed him the most in the Finals. To demand a maximum contract & then quibble over $5-$6 million in difference, especially after failing to perform on the big stage is ridiculous.

Kudos to Presti & the Thunder organization. They turned what could of been a season long distraction into valuable pieces. Kevin Martin has been forgotten in Houston, but is still a skilled offensive weapon & a huge expiring contract. Lamb has potential, & then you add two 1sts.

OKC is in a great position & will not miss a beat.