76ers back to fining Ben Simmons

[GreatWhiteStiff]

Yeah no wonder he's getting so few steals and blocks and shooting the three so poorly. He's washed.

But not actually though.

[sfballa13]

As mentioned above, people are exaggerating what was actually said. Go watch the video. Embiid doesn't even say Simmons' name. He says the turning point is when they had an open dunk (Simmons) that resulted in 1/2 at the line (Thybulle). The only person he explicitly blames is himself.

True, Doc said he didn't know when asked if Simmons is a championship-level point guard. But he also spent the entire season bending over backwards to praise Simmons when there was even a slight suggestion that he could be taking jump shots.

If you want evidence of Simmons being **** on, check out Embiid's pre-season comments.

Love the salty Sixers fans

So many former players (not analysts) came out and said that Doc/Embiid did Simmons dirty after their loss

A few said they would never play for a coach / player who talked **** like that in the media - behind closed doors, sure

Other former players blamed Doc/Embiid for making comments in the "heat of the moment"

This doesnt even touch the fact that Simmons was basically traded for Harden until the deal fell apart bc Morey refused to give up picks and young guys like Maxey

What player wants to play for a GM that is looking to trade him?

See Ray Allen - beloved by the city of of Boston but constantly mentioned in trade rumors. The first chance he got he bounced to the Heat, the Celtics' biggest rival. Celtics were still a competitive team and nearly beat the Heat WITHOUT Allen. Why wouldnt he just stay and help get another chip? Because he felt like he was done dirty

Regardless of what was said, he asked for a trade after the series loss and it's been 4 months

Since then his trade value has plummeted and the only one to blame is Morey.

NBA, NFL, NHL, MLB - show me a situation where a player demanded a trade and the organization refused and held out

Seen it done for contract extensions esp in the NBA/MLB where players are looking to get more money and negotiate by missing games to start the season but this really is the first or only times where a player has missed 20% or more of a season without a trade being completed.

Morey messed this up big time.

Sixers' fans can keep blaming Simmons and whining and crying but the fact remains - 30M+ of cap space is being taken up by a guy who hasnt stepped on the court and your team has already played 20% of the regular season

Agents and other NBA players are taking note, you can bet your ass that no big future free agents are signing with the Sixers if Morey is the GM. If they are bums looking for a big deal sure, but no big name players are going to willingly sign a deal with a team that refuses to trade them.

Wonder how Embiid will feel when he realizes he cant win a chip with the Sixers and requests a trade

You're missing my point and then going on to raise all sorts of issues that I didn't make any comment about. I simply stated that people are exaggerating the post-game-7 comments. I even conceded that Embiid said some nasty stuff about Simmons in pre-season. Reasonable people can disagree on where the blame should be placed, but let's start by understanding what Doc and Embiid said.

No one cares about what Doc and Embiid said. This was months ago.

Simmons has repeatedly asked for a trade privately and publicly. The entire league knows he will not play another game for the Sixers but Morey is holding him hostage.

The funny part is Morey thinks he is playing 4D chess while the rest of the league sits back and laughs.

It's why no serious offers have come through because they know Morey is delusional and as the season progresses Simmons value continues to tank

[ConstableChaos]

dude said he's not playing for philly again - holding true to his word

[Nate505]

It's why no serious offers have come through because they know Morey is delusional and as the season progresses Simmons value continues to tank

Yeah, that and because Simmons is a head case who has proven he'll just sit out on a team when his precious feelings are hurt, as he's not cut out to be a professional athlete. And because he's about as unprofessional as it gets. And because he can't shoot. And because he doesn't work on his game, you know, with the aforementioned "not being a professional" thing that was mentioned.

I can't believe a player like that isn't in demand.

[Nuntius]

It's why no serious offers have come through because they know Morey is delusional and as the season progresses Simmons value continues to tank

Yeah, that and because Simmons is a head case who has proven he'll just sit out on a team when his precious feelings are hurt, as he's not cut out to be a professional athlete. And because he's about as unprofessional as it gets. And because he can't shoot. And because he doesn't work on his game, you know, with the aforementioned "not being a professional" thing that was mentioned.

I can't believe a player like that isn't in demand.

They could have gotten a pretty damn good return for that player this summer. They didn't, though. Morey got greedy and now he's **** out of luck.

[NRSV]

Simmons is trash on and off the court!!

[johanliebert]

So is he CURRENTLY being paid for games?

You paying?

[dautjazz]

Each day his stock is just plummeting. I don't know why they didn't just trade him last year or at the very least this summer? Did they get too greedy or were they too blind to see that this wasn't working out?

[dhsilv2]

Each day his stock is just plummeting. I don't know why they didn't just trade him last year or at the very least this summer? Did they get too greedy or were they too blind to see that this wasn't working out?

How are you measuring value? All trade talks basically ended because nobody can be moved till Dec 15th... All offers we've heard of were terrible this summer and would have all but ended Embiid's window. I'm sure the mental health decision by Simmons has some impact, but again how in the world can we as fans know what the 29 GM's think of Simmon's value now vs then?

[Ryoga Hibiki]

It's why no serious offers have come through because they know Morey is delusional and as the season progresses Simmons value continues to tank

Yeah, that and because Simmons is a head case who has proven he'll just sit out on a team when his precious feelings are hurt, as he's not cut out to be a professional athlete. And because he's about as unprofessional as it gets. And because he can't shoot. And because he doesn't work on his game, you know, with the aforementioned "not being a professional" thing that was mentioned.

I can't believe a player like that isn't in demand.

They could have gotten a pretty damn good return for that player this summer. They didn't, though. Morey got greedy and now he's **** out of luck.

We'll see, all you need is one desperate trade partner

Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Each day his stock is just plummeting. I don't know why they didn't just trade him last year or at the very least this summer? Did they get too greedy or were they too blind to see that this wasn't working out?

How are you measuring value? All trade talks basically ended because nobody can be moved till Dec 15th... All offers we've heard of were terrible this summer and would have all but ended Embiid's window. I'm sure the mental health decision by Simmons has some impact, but again how in the world can we as fans know what the 29 GM's think of Simmon's value now vs then?

If Simmons had any value it would be because enough decision makers don't believe his claims.
If everyone did believe him, he'd have negative value.

Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

[HotelVitale]

Each day his stock is just plummeting. I don't know why they didn't just trade him last year or at the very least this summer? Did they get too greedy or were they too blind to see that this wasn't working out?

Neither, it's just a simple and pretty boring strategy that Morey is playing out. He's just willing to hold out for the maybe 20% chance they can flip Simmons+picks/young guys for a piece that might make them real title contenders. It probably won't work out--the odds don't favor it--but they're committed to trying it out. I don't necessarily agree with the strategy and would probably ahve preferred taking one of the best of the rumored trades from a few months back, but I and most Sixers' fans have seen the team enough to know that we're not a McCollum or Brogdon away from winning a title. So I get the strategy and can live with it, especially since the team is realistically only a little worse with Maxey playing big minutes and Simmons out. (The team's also a little more fun to watch this year with all the extra ball movement, which helps).

I don't get the point that his 'each day stock is plummeting' though--when he made his trade demand he was coming off a terrible PO series after which the national media roasted him for like 3 weeks on repeat. He's looked bad since then and his stock certainly hasn't increased, but I don't think it's really getting any worse this week than the two weeks ago, for example. And I don't think that the usual rumored trades--stuff like Brogdon and a pick, or D Fox or whatever--have forever disappeared now. Might not be as many options but something along those lines should be available down the line.

[SharpyShuffle]

Each day his stock is just plummeting. I don't know why they didn't just trade him last year or at the very least this summer? Did they get too greedy or were they too blind to see that this wasn't working out?

How are you measuring value? All trade talks basically ended because nobody can be moved till Dec 15th... All offers we've heard of were terrible this summer and would have all but ended Embiid's window. I'm sure the mental health decision by Simmons has some impact, but again how in the world can we as fans know what the 29 GM's think of Simmon's value now vs then?

If Simmons had any value it would be because enough decision makers don't believe his claims.
If everyone did believe him, he'd have negative value.

Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

He has negative value regardless. Either has mental health issues, which is a huge red flag in a business as macho as pro sports, or is willing to lie about having mental health issues to scam his team.

I really feel like too many people seem unaware that Simmons is already paid like a superstar. "3x All-Star and DPOY candidate!!" - yes, that's why he's one of the twenty highest paid players in the league. Making all-star teams is exactly what you expect from a guy being paid 35m a year: it's not some amazing bonus, it's the standard expectation.

His on-court production makes him pretty neutral value, but add in his giant red flags and of course his value becomes negative.

[HotelVitale]

How are you measuring value? All trade talks basically ended because nobody can be moved till Dec 15th... All offers we've heard of were terrible this summer and would have all but ended Embiid's window. I'm sure the mental health decision by Simmons has some impact, but again how in the world can we as fans know what the 29 GM's think of Simmon's value now vs then?

If Simmons had any value it would be because enough decision makers don't believe his claims. If everyone did believe him, he'd have negative value.

He has negative value regardless. Either has mental health issues, which is a huge red flag in a business as macho as pro sports, or is willing to lie about having mental health issues to scam his team. I really feel like too many people seem unaware that Simmons is already paid like a superstar. "3x All-Star and DPOY candidate!!" - yes, that's why he's one of the twenty highest paid players in the league. Making all-star teams is exactly what you expect from a guy being paid 35m a year: it's not some amazing bonus, it's the standard expectation. His on-court production makes him pretty neutral value, but add in his giant red flags and of course his value becomes negative.

I don't want to weigh in on Simmons here but I did want to maybe correct your approach to thinking about value and contracts in the NBA. It seems like you're arguing that a player should be paid about equivalent to how good they are, so that a player who's the 50th best in the league should get paid the 50th most, the 15th best should get paid the 15th most, etc; if you're paid less than that your'e a good contract and more than that and you're a bad one. That's common sense on one hand and makes some sense for evaluating a lot of the league's contracts, but you're failing to take into account how scarce/rare top talent is and how much teams will happily pay for top talent.

Here's what I mean concretely: a guy like Gary Trent Jr or Richaun Holmes is about the 80th best player and no one would want to pay them a top-30 salary--that makes sense--but someone like Jayson Tatum or KAT is probably about the 20th best player in the league now and every team in the league would sell their grandparents to ISIS for the right to pay them top-5 salaries. There are also a bunch of guys making about what Simmons makes who aren't all-stars and likely won't be soon--NONE of them are bad contracts and teams would line up to take them on at their current salary. Jamal Murray, McCollum, Ingram, Hawyard, Jrue, Draymond, Siakam, etc. For high-end talent--guys who might be top-30 or so in a given year--teams are not only happy to pay them huge but would also be willing to move major assets to get them on board. Why? Cuz you don't win without multiple top-30 talents and everyone wants them, so they're by definition scarce and more valuable than your ranking-to-salary measure.

Another way to think about it: Westbrook is obviously not a top-3 player in the league, but he was just traded for solid value this year precisely because top talent is so rare that the Lakers were willing to pay for just a chance that Westbrook flashes top-30-ish talent this year. Lowry isn't a max player anymore but teams were trying to give up picks and good prospects for the right to pay him $30m a year when he's 38 friggin years old. Same with Derozan. I could go on but point should be pretty clear here.

[dhsilv2]

Each day his stock is just plummeting. I don't know why they didn't just trade him last year or at the very least this summer? Did they get too greedy or were they too blind to see that this wasn't working out?

How are you measuring value? All trade talks basically ended because nobody can be moved till Dec 15th... All offers we've heard of were terrible this summer and would have all but ended Embiid's window. I'm sure the mental health decision by Simmons has some impact, but again how in the world can we as fans know what the 29 GM's think of Simmon's value now vs then?

If Simmons had any value it would be because enough decision makers don't believe his claims.
If everyone did believe him, he'd have negative value.

Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

Mental health issues can be resolved just like physical health issues. You don't suddenly drop a player's value because they have an injury anymore than this.

[Rastas]

I don't believe Simmons value is dropping.
In 2 or 3 weeks from now, certain teams will decide to go for it or not.
Adding a fully healthy Allstar in mid Dec could be just what certain teams need for their playoff push.
His Mental issues are primarily related to Philly/Embiid, so if he gets away from them expect things to improve.
Of course Morey/Philly may still be in Jilted Lover Mode and continue to punish Ben any which way they can , or just maybe their ready to try save some face here and salvage something of this season by taking what appears a slightly better trade offer than they have had so far.
P.S. - Would love to see Ben go play 3 or 4 games with the Bluecoats (Philly's G League) to show us all his current conditioning.
Would help both parties access his trade value whilst not actually playing for Philly.

[John Murdoch]

[RalphWiggum]

How are you measuring value? All trade talks basically ended because nobody can be moved till Dec 15th... All offers we've heard of were terrible this summer and would have all but ended Embiid's window. I'm sure the mental health decision by Simmons has some impact, but again how in the world can we as fans know what the 29 GM's think of Simmon's value now vs then?

If Simmons had any value it would be because enough decision makers don't believe his claims.
If everyone did believe him, he'd have negative value.

Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

Mental health issues can be resolved just like physical health issues. You don't suddenly drop a player's value because they have an injury anymore than this.

Simmons has mental health issues but not the kind that needs therapy or that the Sixers should be helping him with.

[dhsilv2]

If Simmons had any value it would be because enough decision makers don't believe his claims.
If everyone did believe him, he'd have negative value.

Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

Mental health issues can be resolved just like physical health issues. You don't suddenly drop a player's value because they have an injury anymore than this.

Simmons has mental health issues but not the kind that needs therapy or that the Sixers should be helping him with.

Given what's happened with his family. I think he very well does need help and should have resources from the team. That was pretty bizarre and horrible stuff he dealt with the last year or so.

[Eyeamok]

It's why no serious offers have come through because they know Morey is delusional and as the season progresses Simmons value continues to tank

Yeah, that and because Simmons is a head case who has proven he'll just sit out on a team when his precious feelings are hurt, as he's not cut out to be a professional athlete. And because he's about as unprofessional as it gets. And because he can't shoot. And because he doesn't work on his game, you know, with the aforementioned "not being a professional" thing that was mentioned.

I can't believe a player like that isn't in demand.

They could have gotten a pretty damn good return for that player this summer. They didn't, though. Morey got greedy and now he's **** out of luck.

What trade was available that the 76ers passed up for Ben Simmons this summer?